Moving abroad?

[JakieOH]

Looking for some advice here, I have a bit of an issue

My DPs eldest DD is at our house this weekend. Last night she told me her mum had a secret that she is not allowed to tell anyone especially dad so she couldn't say anymore (she is 9 and has her dads ability to keep 'secrets' )

She told me that she maybe is moving abroad next year . I don't really want to give details as they are quite specific but I have every reason to believe this is true. In fact it's something I wondered that might happen for a while now. I haven't said anythin to DP yet because I know it would start a shit storm and that DSDs mother would be angry with her for saying anything when I say abroad I mean the other side of the planet!

Anyone who has read my PP knows that the relationship with my DPs ex is less than ideal,however, things have improved drastically over the last week with us all coming to an understanding of sorts (or so I thought) now this has happened. The children are very close to their dad and have regular frequent contact. For all our battles I do think she is a good mum and she loves her kids. Saying that she certainly doesn't care about DP and has gone out of her way to make life difficult for him.

My questions are

• Should I mention this to DP this weekend or leave it for just now? We are very open with each other and it doesn't sit well not telling him.
  
• Can he actually stop this happening if she decides to go? Looking at it it sounds like he could stop it initially but if she really wants to go he may not be able to stop her
  
  like I said I absolutely believe, for reasons I can't go into here, that This is very much a possibility. Not too sure what to do about it.

[JakieOH]

Solicitor is on the case now so we will all do what we can to stop it.

This isn't a case of someone leaving a troubled marrage, being alone with children and hoping for a better life for them. It is a selfish woman wanting an adventure and being willing to ruin multiple lives to do it. I'm not a mother but I would think its safe to presdume that if you have children their lives, relationships with friends and families would come before an 'adventure'. That is disgusting IMO but like the solicitor said its is highly unlikely she will be able to go. well she is more than welcome to go, I would happily buy her ticket, but she won't be taking the children with her!

The fact she never even discussed it with DP and his daughter Stated 'this is a secret, I'm not allowed to tell dad, won't help her case.

[fedupbutfine]

I disagree. It is not 'disgusting' to have dreams and to want to make those a reality. People do it every day - and take their children with them. And it is absolutely possible - legally - to start a life on another continent and take the children with you. Morally, well, of course there are lots of reasons why it's wrong - with that I don't disagree. But the constant suggestion anyone wanting to move on with their life is somehow in the wrong is....wrong.

We can argue about it for literally hundreds of posts but it won't actually do anything until the OP's partner consults a solicitor and sets the ball in motion to stop a move. The longer he leaves it, the more likely it is that the ex will get what she wants because her plan will be better and better formed, making it easier to run past a judge when the time comes. Please don't assume that the courts will automatically stop a move - it's not that simple.

[PeruvianFoodLover]

People are allowed to 'move on'. Sometimes 'moving on' means making difficult decisions that inevitably, not everyone is happy with.

It is for exactly this reason that there are very, very clear laws that are applied when courts (not just in the UK, but across the world) are asked to resolve the disputes that arise from these situations.

The OPs DSD has a "right" to a relationship with both her parents. One parent cannot make the decision to remove the child from their other parent. Similarly, both parents have a right to "family life" and that includes the opportunity to parent their child.

If a parent chooses to move away and start a new life on a different continent, then that is, of course, their right. But they do not have the right, morally or legally, to make that decision for their DC.

I know of many, many couples who have split and have been unable to pursue careers, dreams, ambitions; because they know that both parents remaining a part of the DCs life is more important.

The OPs DSD in 9 years old - her mum can have her overseas adventure in 10 years when her DD is all grown up.

[fedupbutfine]

No, it's not 'disgusting'. People are allowed to 'move on'. Sometimes 'moving on' means making difficult decisions that inevitably, not everyone is happy with. It doesn't mean that life can't settle and everyone be happy with the new situation. But to get to that point, there may well need to be a lot of compromise, discussion and working things through.

If your partner doesn't want this, he needs to discuss the issue with a solicitor as soon as possible. The longer he leaves it, the longer the ex has to get her house in order and the more likely it will be that she gets what she wants. Being angry isn't actually going to help, is it?

[JakieOH]

I can't see it like that at all swing not in this situation. The kids are happy here they are settled and don't know anything else other than the security of having both parents who love them in their lives. The way I see it is she is putting her desire for an a 'change' in front if anything else.

I'm not these kids mother yet I am worried sick about the effect it would have on them, DP aside. It's disgusting

[swingofthings]

well done on your OH for not challenging her.

In regards to the decision to move, it is very difficult when one is unhappy with their life and believe that they would much happier elsewhere and the kids would be happy to because it then comes down to staying unhappy just to make the ex happy.

It's all about how you look at it. Ultimately, it is totally wrong, but when you are desperately frustrated with life, it's not hard to convince yourself that you are doing the right thing for yourself and your children.

[JakieOH]

That sounds positive Jin, thank you for posting that. I'll show it to DP.

This woman is nothing but a selfish cow and has gone a step too far this time!

[juneau]

if there's any chance she can take them away

As long as he gets legal advice and protections in place to block her, then she can't unilaterally remove them. Look:

The Hague Convention

The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction, or Hague Abduction Convention is a multilateral treaty developed by the Hague Conference on Private International Law (HCCH) that provides an expeditious method to return a child internationally abducted by a parent from one member country to another.

The Convention was concluded 25 October 1980 and entered into force between the signatories on 1 December 1983. The Convention was drafted to ensure the prompt return of children who have been abducted from their country of habitual residence or wrongfully retained in a contracting state not their country of habitual residence.

The primary intention of the Convention is to preserve whatever status quo child custody arrangement existed immediately before an alleged wrongful removal or retention thereby deterring a parent from crossing international boundaries in search of a more sympathetic court. The Convention applies only to children under the age of 16.

[JakieOH]

I know what you means k88 I will definitely be here to support him, I'm just devestated for him reslly.

The children come to see their dad regularly but it isn't 50/50. This would be nearly impossible with DPs work and would probably be very unsettling for the kids. It's about the only thing him and the mother agree on! However he is away to see s solicitor today to get PSO or something put down and to see how he can go about having the children 50/50 .

I don't think the later is a very good idea but he is adamant. He says they are his children just as much as hers and he loves them the same as she does. But if there's any chance she can take them away he wants to spend as much time as possible with them now just awful!

[SugarOnTop]

Im convinced she wouldn't have told him until things were in place and booked.

all the more reason for you to get legal advice and get the ball rolling asap re the order. personally, i don't think it's ever 'reasonable' to physically distance children from either parent to such an extent.

[K888]

Sorry I didn't mean instead of kids, just a supportive partner in a time of crisis is worth it's weight in gold. You sound like you are going to be completely there for him.

[K888]

Fair enough JakieOH! Sounds really, really tough and devastating. At least he has you! He's not on his own there. That must count for a huge amount.

[JakieOH]

K888 thanks for your reply. I absolutely understand your situation but this is very different. She is not only considering moving them from DPs family network but her own too. She has family there who no doubt would support them but it's not their dad. She never mentioned it but admitted it during an argument with DP tonight. Im convinced she wouldn't have told him until things were in place and booked.

Every situation is different but take my word for ours, this is insane! I'm quite sure her own family will kick off too now it's out, I can only hope they make her see sense!

[mummytime]

Fedupbutfine there are lots of mothers who emigrate and whose marriages break up, but then they cannot return to the UK where they have support networks etc. Because you cannot just remove children from their country of habitual residence, even if it would make things easier, not if the other parent objects.
That is what The Hague convention is all about.

[K888]

Although I have to say, hadn't realised it was the other side of the world. That is pretty devastating. :-(

[K888]

fedupbutfine
Those are really good points. Really good points. Each case is of course, different. I couldn't really comment on the 'reasonableness' of this particular mother. However I would really urge you both to take a moment to try and really see it from her POV. Really try and get your OH to talk at some point to the mum - maybe even through mediation or a third party. The happiness of a child depends hugely on the security of the main carer. In his own anger at the prospect of being separated (which I do not for one moment want to belittle, it must be awful) - he may stop seeing any of the other side. Who knows, maybe he'll still feel the same afterwards and possibly she is very selfish and there are other options, but it can't hurt to try.

I moved my DS to another town after separation. I did not do this lightly. I was really struggling with zero support networks. I considered the consequences for DSs father, talked with him at length, and I stayed for a long time in the area trying to make it work. I made the decision finally to move and it was the most positive thing I've ever done (not just for me, but my child). If I had not moved I am convinced my ability to parent my son will have been strained to tipping point. Yet I still am horrified by the amount of vilification I can get from people who have no idea of the circumstances. Just giving the other point of view.

[JakieOH]

the selfishness in the thinking is just beyond my comprehension if it was a few hours away it would be bad enough and severely impact on his relationship with them. This is the other side of the bloody planet I'm raging so I can only imagine how DP is feeling. I'm so sad for him!

[JakieOH]

Also the things you mention that are 'reasonable to want' her and the children have that here! The whole thing is ludicrous and I would like to think any judge or indeed sane person would see that! I hope anyway! Fingers crossed!

[JakieOH]

Fedup big presumption to make that she doesn't have all these things here?! She has more people 'on her side' thane and DP do!! I certsinly don't buy that she needs to 'put her life together' either.

She is thinking only of herself and no one else. She wants an adventure and will walk over whoever she wants to do it!!

It's bern confirmed now that this is indeed her plan. My DP and his family are utterly devestated and will fight her tooth and nail!!

[fedupbutfine]

Its understandable from her POV, but completely unreasonable

I am not sure it can ever be considered unreasonable to want to be somewhere where there are people who are on your side, where work is easy (enough) to come by, where you have support to ensure you can work when children are ill, where you can earn sufficient to meet the needs of your family etc. etc.

It is of course unreasonable to be asking children to keep secrets and to making plans to move in secret. But the actual wanting to put your life back together in a way that works for you, no, that's OK. Making it 'fair' to both parents - and the children - is the difficult part.

[JakieOH]

I know, I thought he was going to start world war 3

He knows that his DD will get in trouble for telling him her the mothers secrets. Not sure what to do now though . He wants to speak to a soliciter but I don't know exactly what a soliciter can do at this stage. Think he just needs to forget about it for now but keep a close eye on it.

Sure as shit if the mother gets a letter stating she can't leave the country with the children without DPs consent she will flip her lid! They are going on holiday later this year

[lunar1]

Well done to your dh, he is doing the right thing. I don't think I'd be so calm if I thought someone was making plans to take my children away. I hope he can put a quick stop to it without his dd getting hurt.

[JakieOH]

So DP has been and didn't menntion it. Said he knew she would kick of i front if the kids so he didn't bother

Big gold star for him I'd say!

[JakieOH]

I agree swing. I do think he will just ask her because there is a slight chance that is been blown out of proportion. She doesn't take well to DP questioning anything so I suspect it will erupt. I've told him also he needs to pick his battles carefully and if she kicks off best thing is to walk away, go to a soliciter, get something in writing, take it from there and leave her to it.

I've told him he needs to keep calm but they're not my children so it's easier for me to say

I'm bunkering down anyway