Spousification - how does this affect the child

[LeftHandedMouse]

Just picked up on this from another thread, and the comment that it can damage the DD's relationships later on in life.

Does anyone know what form this takes?

Over dependence on a b/friend or intense relationships for example?

[vitabrits]

Well I understood the op. I didn't have anything to contribute so thought I'd read the thread to maybe learn something. I really don't see why most posters have laid into the op. So what if she didn't use the most up to date terminology, I think her question was perfectly clear.

[CinnabarRed]

I suspect that I was on the receiving end of behaviour that might be called 'spousification' from my father.

It was very much as Boomeranggirl described in her first post - being put on an equal footing in our family to my mother (as with Boomeranggirl, in my case my father and mother were still together), ganging up on my mother and younger brother, being made responsible for some of my father's adult decisions.

In my case, it all ended tragically when my father had a nervous breakdown and committed suicide when I was 16. Oddly, of my family I was the least affected by his death because I knew that I was loved by him - my mother and brother experienced crushing, overwhelming guilt but I didn't.

My father's frankly weird behaviour towards me doesn't seem to have caused me too many issues as an adult. I am married, hold down a very well paid and responsible job, did well academically, am not in counselling, didn't go off the rails as a teen. I suspect that his suicide, ironically, protected me from the worst of it because it forced change on me.

It did cause terrible problems in my relationship with my brother. He was made to feel completely inferior to me (classic golden child/scapegoat dynamic) and we have never really recovered.

[MaryWestmacott]

In my experience, the blame is always levelled at the female. So in a single father/daughter relationship where the girl has been allowed to seen as a partner, no boundaries etc, it's the girl that gets blamed.

But in single mother/son relationships that are very similar, the mum gets the blame for 'over relying' on her boy, for not having a healthy relationship with him.

It's rarely seen as the dad's fault, it's rarely seen as the teenage boy's fault.

But that just reflects the fact that in our society, we often blame the female partner in a fucked up relationship, seeing woman (however young) as the ones who can control their behaviours.

[ArsenicSoup]

It's not really a question of terminology Vita.

[LeftHandedMouse]

Cheese

Because there is no jealous new partner, there is a supportive partner of many years.

Can we just consider the topic closed?

[ClashCityRocker]

OP, I think you need to ask 'how might this family dynamic affect someone later in life'....

I suspect what you have is not Spousification, but an insecure DSC and a father trying to overcompensate? Which is a pretty common dynamic within step families, but isn't Spousification.

[ArsenicSoup]

But that just reflects the fact that in our society, we often blame the female partner in a fucked up relationship, seeing woman (however young) as the ones who can control their behaviours.

YES Mary

[ArsenicSoup]

And still in costume Perp. Such dedication.

[ClashCityRocker]

Ah, missed your later post.

So DSD had a close relationship with her father, but now it's ended for whatever reason?

I should imagine that someone in that position may have trust issues and yes,potentially have very intense relationships, but it is impossible to say - what impacts one person might not another, to a greater or lesser degree.

[LeftHandedMouse]

Clash, yes that's probably a much better way of asking the question, thak you !

It did at first look a little like that until we sat down and had that conversation how her role in dad's life had stepped up several notches above being his child.

But that's all by the by.

CinnabarRed, I suspect we're seeing a similar breakdown in her relationships with her siblings.

If that means we have to focus on them rather than on her, then that's one positive response so thank you.

[Boomeranggirl]

cinnabar red you sound very insightful and well balanced if you don't mind me saying. I'm not sure that the young woman in our situation is going to go the same way .

I think Mary has a good point, the female is often the scapegoat in terms of blame. I think its a case of victim blaming.

[Catsarebastards]

Now let's pretend that I haven't mentioned this before and that the question is how does this impact in later life?

I dont understand the agenda behind this question. You say it has been dealt with and stopped so logical steps would be to aim to raise a well balanced child in much the same way as any and all others in the family. Why do you need to know what long term impact there is? Is it so you can throw it back at your partner and say "look at these issues you will have created"?

Why not just get on with raising the child as you would any other?

[CinnabarRed]

Catsarebastards - I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge that a child might have experienced something traumatic to him/her and therefore ask for advice on additional issues to look out for in the future.

If a child had been in, say, a nasty car crash then no-one would suggest that there may not be future issues because the crash itself is over.

[LeftHandedMouse]

Cats, we did get her back on track in terms of growing up as any other child. Whether we acheived 'well balanced' is debateable, we thought we had.

Now she's older, there are some aspects of her behaviour that, to borrow the catch phrase from the thread watchers, feel like 'groundhog day'.

Being that bit older though to some degree we can only watch on until she comes and talks to us. Sometimes she seems to recognise things are not quite right and she doesn't understand why and wants help.

Nothing to say this is related to her past, but that's the reason for asking if there is any long term legacy. If we take her to see a counsellor, it would be helpfuil to know if we have to talk about the past as well as the present.

[ClashCityRocker]

It sounds like counselling might do her some good anyway. The end of a relationship with anybody, but particularly a parent figure, can have a great impact.

Personally, as you are emotionally involved in the situation presumably, I would suggest counselling so she can work on her issues on her own and practical support for the day to day things she may be struggling with.

[ArsenicSoup]

Long term legacy of what OP

What are you asking?

[ClashCityRocker]

Great as in significant, not great as in awesome, btw.

[ClashCityRocker]

From what I gather, DSD is older now and having some issues.

OP is wondering to what extent, if any, this may be caused by a previously close relationship with her father ending in unfortunate circumstances might have impacted on dsd's current issues, and presumably the best way to move forward.

[sanityseeker75]

Whilst Spousification itself is a term that people do not like and is not proven and for all the right reasons that people have already said. It isn't that new of a theory - just a new word for it.

Think Norman Bates - Spousification by his mother - didn't end well!

Maybe nobody relates to this as probably the first example of spousification to be truly portrayed in films because it was a mother and son?

I have no real words of wisdom for you OP but as the past often reflects how we react in our present then yes I am assuming a counsellor will want to talk about situations that have led to her behaviour.

[Catsarebastards]

If a child had been in, say, a nasty car crash then no-one would suggest that there may not be future issues because the crash itself is over.

Of course, however it would be very difficult for anyone to advise on possible issue if an OP simply wrote "what are the future effects of a nasty accident" without including injuries, current effects, child's perception of it etc. there are too many variable to be able to answer that question without the specific information.

OP if she is a grown child and showing signs of all not being well then yes a counsellor could be good, however, she would be the one telling the counsellor what she was feeling. It wouldnt be helpful at all for you to pre advise what you think is the issue. That could hinder the process. If the past is relevant to her current issues then it will come up during sessions with a good counsellor.

[NickiFury]

But how can anyone answer and give advice if they don't know the details (within reason) of what actually went on. The OP called it spousification, but doesn't give any information on why she thinks it is that.

[CinnabarRed]

ArsenicSoup - I don't mean to put words into the OP's mouth, but it seems to me that what she's saying is:

• my DSD had a relationship with her father that some might regard as unusual in some respects
• that unusual relationship caused some issues in the dynamic of our family
• we nipped it in the bud once we understood that there was something to address and have done our best to raise her to be a well-balanced adult
• DSD is, sadly, experiencing some issues that may or may not be related to her earlier relationship with her father
• do you think there could be long-term impacts and do you think it's worth counselling?

None of that seems disrespectful of the DSD, her father or the wider family to me. It seems like a perfectly sensible question to consider.

[LeftHandedMouse]

Thanks Cats.

Trying to maintain some level of privacy, hence the slow/lack of disclosure of detail/circumstances.

[CinnabarRed]

I hate the terms spousification and mini-wife with a burning passion, but I don't think that the OP deserves the flaming she's received on this thread.

Catsarebastards, I take your point but it's not unusual for OPs to not post details for a wide variety of reasons.

OP, I think sanityseeker has it with this: " have no real words of wisdom for you OP but as the past often reflects how we react in our present then yes I am assuming a counsellor will want to talk about situations that have led to her behaviour"

I also think Catsarebastards is absolutely spot on with "she would be the one telling the counsellor what she was feeling. It wouldnt be helpful at all for you to pre advise what you think is the issue. That could hinder the process. If the past is relevant to her current issues then it will come up during sessions with a good counsellor"