Spousification - how does this affect the child

[LeftHandedMouse]

Just picked up on this from another thread, and the comment that it can damage the DD's relationships later on in life.

Does anyone know what form this takes?

Over dependence on a b/friend or intense relationships for example?

[FlossyMoo]

What Arse said with bells on

[ArsenicSoup]

If everyone used the term correctly cocktail the controversy would never have arisen.

But they don't.

In fact, until very recently 'Mini wife syndrome' was benig used interchangably with 'spousification' on this board (and linking vile, vile 'information' on MWS with approval) and many people still seem to consider them synonyms.

Have you tried googling MWS?

[cocktailshakerr]

Sorry just picking up on this thread.
I'm just a bit confused by it as when I googled 'spousification' it came up with a whole other term than what step mums seem to think it means. It annoys me how everybody dismisses it and jumps down the throat of anybody who mentions it when actually it means something different than what most women on here seem to think it means.
Reading the description of what it actually means I would say as a child I was a 'victim' of it. My mum was very emotionally needy, often threatening to commit suicide or self harming and I was the one having to counsel her, probably from the age of about 7 or 8.
There were often reversed roles and I took on house hold responsibilities and emotional burdens that I shouldn't have had to from a young age.
That is what the actual term means, according to wikipedia.
It is often children from 'broken' homes who are exposed to this as they have to take on the role of the absent parent.

So yes spousification does exist, but sometimes in different forms than the ones you jump to conclusions about.

[hoobygalooby]

Poor OP! Wrong choice of word maybe but the problem does exist and is very real and damaging for the children. It is the fault of the parent but often happens unknowingly.
When DP and his ex split up he was a mess. He struggled to cope emotionally with both the break up and the impact on his relationship with his children. As his DD is a very strong bossy character (like her mum) she literally took the reins. She became the decision maker when they stayed with him at weekends, she decided what they ate, where they went, what they did; she ruled DSS too and became a smaller version of her mum for them both.
When I came along she felt so threatened and hated the fact that I was suddenly 'doing her job' as it were.
DP realised what was going on but felt powerless to stop it until I pointed out that DSD never seemed to be having fun like little children should. She never seemed happy or carefree. We started encouraging her to be a kid, babying her I suppose which she desperately needed and she thrived on being the child in the family again.
Now 7 years on she does have some issues - controlling and manipulative behaviour, lack of boundaries and respect for authority and attention seeking. I would be interested to know how much those few years with her Dad have contributed to her issues now.

[pollyannagoestotown]

I have a male friend who was treated like the substitute husband by his mother who was arguably in an unhappy marriage - basically expected to compensate for the father's deficiencies. The knock on effects for him haven't been great, and all kinds of issues reared their head when she died.

I don't think it is a gender thing - and a small minority of parents do treat their children in an inappropriate way - which meets their needs but doesn't take account of the child's needs.

I also see it as the adult's responsibility to set appropriate boundaries and not the child.

[Romeyroo]

Spouses being often excluded, I mean!! Sorry, tired.

[Romeyroo]

I think there are well-documented long term effects of abuse whilst growing up, regardless of cause. Without wishing to join a debate on 'spousification', I do think there can be a situation where parent/child boundaries are not in place. Whether this leads to triangulation with other siblings or the marital partner being excluded or not, I think there are certainly situations where the emotional interdependency between parent and child parallels the emotional relationship between a couple. It is not necessarily an opposite sex thing, I could list the dynamics of a parent-adult child dyad I know where it is beyond unhealthy. For both people within it, it is the primary relationship, with spouses being often included. It has gone beyond the golden child scenario into co-dependency.

In terms of longer term results, the usual spectrum of higher risk outcomes as per abuse. Low self-esteem, difficulty asserting boundaries, anxiety, depression.

[ArsenicSoup]

You're probably right Clash. I'm afraid I don't have much patience for sexist, child-blaming nonsense - it makes my attention wander. You are much more patient

[riverboat1]

To me 'spousification' as a term suggests the blame is on the parent as it is something they 'do' to the child.

Anyway OP, it is right that you would have got much less eye rolling and more reasoned responses if you hadn't used that word but had been purely descriptive and pointed out at least 10 times that it was all your DH's fault. Hey ho.

[ClashCityRocker]

arse no, of course it isn't. But I think it's naïveté on the part of the OP when she suggested Spousification and hopefully she's a bit more aware of the risk of using commonly misused psycho-babble.
It's a god-awful term that puts the blame squarely on the child.
I was more responding to her later post.

[BooDidIScareYou]

Groundhog Day has Andi(e?) McDowell in it. I hate her. Her smug grin, her woolly hair..that L'Oreal advert where she definitely wasn't 'worth it'. My least favourite actress ever.

[NickiFury]

The problem is unless you're a trained professional "spousification" is something that is a matter of personal opinion only and labelling a child's behaviour as such is pretty risky, with the potential for huge damage to interpersonal relationships within families. Did you have such a diagnosis OP?

[ArsenicSoup]

The dripfeed really didn't help. Nor the aggression in the second post.

[ArsenicSoup]

OP is wondering to what extent, if any, this may be caused by a previously close relationship with her father ending in unfortunate circumstances might have impacted on dsd's current issues, and presumably the best way to move forward.

And 'being close to' a parent is spousification now?

[CinnabarRed]

Assuming that this is the thread you picked up on www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/1841231-When-a-husband-loves-daughter-more-than-wife-how-do-you-cope then I can see why you used the term 'spousification'. It's freely used on that thread without any of the angst on this one.

But Cats is right - it is a horribly loaded term used far too often in recent months by jealous stepmothers to demonise insecure stepchildren.

Still, you live and learn. Hopefully this thread has still been useful?

[Catsarebastards]

Well i you want considered replies from those with experience then you have to take the time to use those couple of hundred words otherwise people cant know if the do have experience or not because you havent said what the situation was. As i said, spousification means vastly different things to different people.

[LeftHandedMouse]

Cats & Cinnabar - yup guilty as charged.

I did not expect to reap the storm, just expected a few considered replies from a very few who have had experience.

Mistakenly used the 'word' that can't be spoken to save a cpl of hundred.

[Catsarebastards]

[Catsarebastards]

Catsarebastards, I take your point but it's not unusual for OPs to not post details for a wide variety of reasons.

Of course, though even a simple "DSD is having some issues and we are concerned they might stem from earlier spousification which has now been dealt with. Is this likely and how do we deal with it?" Would have been far more likely to get OP the responses she needs, specific to her situation than the OP she did post that seemed to be a request for a list of long term effects of a vague family dynamic. (Vague in that there is so much variation in interpretation of what constitutes spousification)

[CinnabarRed]

I hate the terms spousification and mini-wife with a burning passion, but I don't think that the OP deserves the flaming she's received on this thread.

Catsarebastards, I take your point but it's not unusual for OPs to not post details for a wide variety of reasons.

OP, I think sanityseeker has it with this: " have no real words of wisdom for you OP but as the past often reflects how we react in our present then yes I am assuming a counsellor will want to talk about situations that have led to her behaviour"

I also think Catsarebastards is absolutely spot on with "she would be the one telling the counsellor what she was feeling. It wouldnt be helpful at all for you to pre advise what you think is the issue. That could hinder the process. If the past is relevant to her current issues then it will come up during sessions with a good counsellor"

[LeftHandedMouse]

Thanks Cats.

Trying to maintain some level of privacy, hence the slow/lack of disclosure of detail/circumstances.

[CinnabarRed]

ArsenicSoup - I don't mean to put words into the OP's mouth, but it seems to me that what she's saying is:

• my DSD had a relationship with her father that some might regard as unusual in some respects
• that unusual relationship caused some issues in the dynamic of our family
• we nipped it in the bud once we understood that there was something to address and have done our best to raise her to be a well-balanced adult
• DSD is, sadly, experiencing some issues that may or may not be related to her earlier relationship with her father
• do you think there could be long-term impacts and do you think it's worth counselling?

None of that seems disrespectful of the DSD, her father or the wider family to me. It seems like a perfectly sensible question to consider.

[NickiFury]

But how can anyone answer and give advice if they don't know the details (within reason) of what actually went on. The OP called it spousification, but doesn't give any information on why she thinks it is that.

[Catsarebastards]

If a child had been in, say, a nasty car crash then no-one would suggest that there may not be future issues because the crash itself is over.

Of course, however it would be very difficult for anyone to advise on possible issue if an OP simply wrote "what are the future effects of a nasty accident" without including injuries, current effects, child's perception of it etc. there are too many variable to be able to answer that question without the specific information.

OP if she is a grown child and showing signs of all not being well then yes a counsellor could be good, however, she would be the one telling the counsellor what she was feeling. It wouldnt be helpful at all for you to pre advise what you think is the issue. That could hinder the process. If the past is relevant to her current issues then it will come up during sessions with a good counsellor.