DSD's Mother hit her and we've had to call Police...

[ConfusionAndDelay]

I wonder if anyone can help me? I've name changed for privacy.

My step daughter (aged 7) arrived here yesterday afternoon and told me her Mother had hit her hard across the back that morning. My husband got home from work at I told him and he spoke to step daughter about it. She had been hit across the back and there were 3 red adult hand sized finger marks (albeit faint but noticeable) where she said she had hit her.

We called Police, they came out and took statement, they saw the finger marks and they spoke to step daughter who confirmed again what had happened. She has a good vocabulary, was quite capable of explaining what happened clearly and concisely.

Social worker and Police turned up unexpected at our door yesterday afternoon (about 30 hrs after it happened) and want to speak to her. They chat to her for around half hour and leave. They didn't tell me what she said but before they left they asked me to confirm when she was due to go back to her Mother (Thursday) and that her Mother doesn't have any other kids that are currently in her care. They said they would be in touch before Thursday.

We understand it's a relatively minor injury, the mark had gone by the time the Social Worker looked, but we have photos from yesterday afternoon and the Police saw. But it's obviously not right to hit a child across the back so hard that your finger marks can be seen 8 hours later!

Something isn't right with her mum. She's been increasingly complaining about being smacked a lot, her mum is angry and step daughter says she cries a lot. She tells her all her problems and makes her feel guilty and worry about them (money, being lonely etc) She's only 7! She said she's been shouting more, swearing and her too. Step daughter has been stopped attending her out of school hobby which she loves, her mum and started working part time instead of full time and she seems unable to get up and get her to school on time, sends her to school when she has been sick, doesn't engage with school much, refuses to do any homework etc. She's had serious MH problems before, attempted suicide, severe depression etc (all documented and spanning a number of years) and my husband feels she could be heading that way again (from what he knows of her).

What do we do? Are we allowed to just keep her here until the Police and Child Services get back to us as it will breach the Court Order. Honestly, we don't have £200 spare to make the application to Court that I assume we should really make in order to get what I believe is an Interim Order but if it's essential then we would have to find the money.

Husband doesn't want to take daughter away from her mum, just take steps to keep step daughter safe whilst her mum is encouraged to get help.

They have to keep what's said between her and them to themselves for now while the investigation is going on. They may have other people they want to speak to her about it and they don't want you to know what she said to prevent the possibility of you coaching her to change something she's said. It's standard procedure, they keep it the same for everyone and doesn't mean she has or hasn't said anything :)

Confusion, I am surprised that that is what the SW has said. They should have an opinion on this as it's a safeguarding matter. They are being very cagey.

That's what we thought. It's all very strange but SW puts it down to her having to be careful what is and isn't said as her investigations are running alongside the police investigation (not that they've done anything as yet).

As part of the investigation will they check medical records? If so do they check DSD's mothers medical records given her history of mental ealth problems and severe depression?

I might not be totally correct on this but I think the doctor can provide relevant medical information but usually asks for the persons consent first. I'm not sure if they have to get a court order or if they will give the records anyway.

I'm a student nurse and I know that if a child is thought to be at risk of neglect or abuse then the doctor/nurse etc can provide medical information about that child to the relevant services but I don't know if that extends to records from the mother. If she was to be taken into hospital for psychiatric reasons or had contact with the mental health team and they felt they needed to then they would inform social services of this and why there may be a safeguarding issue. Most of the time ss are routinely informed if a person is involved with a mental health crisis team has children living with them. often ss just put in a note in case the info is needed and do nothing. So they may already have record of her mental health problems, I would tell them how you think these problems are affecting your dsd.

My DH asked for advise from SocServ in a similar situation, and they said the same thing; they are unable to advise what he should do.
Be very aware though, that should your DP return his DD to her mum, and something further happens, his decision will come under scrutiny by SocServ. Their role is to assess a parents ability to make decisions, not make them for parents.
If your DP is able to provide his DD with care until this is sorted out, and he can justify "breaching the court order" on the basis that he believes he is acting reasonably, then he won't be severely penalised in court, even if they do think he was "wrong".

If you think through what could happen if he doesn't return his DD, that might help reassure him:

If his DDs mum turns up on the doorstep, you can call the police.
If his DDs mum reports him for kidnaping/abduction, then the police already have a record of the case so will know the details and know that his DD is safe with you.
If his DDs mum applies to court for "enforcement" of the court order, then by the time it gets to a hearing (6 weeks or more), hopefully, it'll all be sorted out and his DD will be having safe contact with both her parents.

I just want to send digital hugs to you. I just feel so sad for your family and particularly your DSD, she sounds like a great kid. I'm sorry I don't have direct experience of this to help you with, I've come very very close a few times to calling in services for my SD but she was too small to verbalise things enough that I could be sure enough and you have to be completely sure.

All I can say is what I say to my OH, this is his daughter too and he needs to do what his parental instinct tells him to do. Is there any way at all he can at least blag a conversation with his solicitor, or even pay for half an hour of their time for advice. But he needs to decide if he feels in his heart his child could be in danger. Certainly the things you raise such as missing school, being hit, shouted and sworn at, they're all pretty real things that I would hope a court would consider. If he's not done so yet he could speak to the school and to her teachers, I appreciate that's difficult timing as the holidays start but they are a good resource with lots to say.

If mum's MH issues are a worry and from past history sounds like they could be, could your OH speak to any of her family, her parents or siblings? Perhaps if she is struggling, offering with the help of some friendly family faces to take DSD for a few months to help her get things on track and help her get back on her feet might be a good thing for everyone. One of my friends had serious MH issues like this and she says that intervention of social services, although unwelcome at the time, in her mind saved her life, so perhaps there's a way you can help DSD's mum. I know she's not your responsibility but of course you care so much about how your child is affected it's hard not to want to see her happy so she can be the mum she would want to be.

I'm really sorry you're going through this I hope you find an answer soon

Thank you for all your replies and I thought I should update you all.

Police are still investigating whilst deciding whether there's enoughevidence to prosecute or not as photo of hand mark was faint and although Police saw it and we have photos it had gone by the time the Social a Worker looked the next afternoon.

Children's Services are doing a section 47 assessment and have visited our house. Social worker nice but unwilling to offer much info, has said that DSD is consistent with her account of the facts and being smacked hard is a regular occurs for.

DH decided he couldn't send her back and so she has now been with us almost two full weeks. Her mum did complain once and said it's not fair and she should get her back whilst Police investigate as until then she is innocent (wtf?!) DH decided to protect us from her mum trying to snatch her back and got an interim Court Order stating she is with us for 6 weeks until the Investigations are over.

Perhaps someone has some advice on what we do now...

-The Judge didn't order any contact but DH has text ex and offer her telephone contact which she has declined so far. He thinks he should offer supervised contact in person as 6 weeks (well 8 including the run to to the order) is too long to not see her mum but he doesn't feel able to do it as he's so angry she's hurt his daughter this way. I can't do it as she's abusive to me verbally whenever she sees me and we don't have anyone else due to her behaviour in the past- would it be suitable to suggest she books a contact centre? Can they be used once off it short term?

• Secondly, this sounds awful. DH gives her mum maintenance and she gets Child Benefit despite a having DSD around half and half normally. As she's going to be solely with us for two months in total would it be unreasonable to ask her mum for financial support? He has to pay maintenance via the CSA so we were thinking perhaps he could ask her for it back for the 8 weeks DSD is here to pay for stuff for DSD. I have a son slightly older than DSD booked into holiday clubs when DSD wasn't due to be here but now she will be here she'd love to go too- plus the usual every day cost of food, activities etc especially given it's summer holidays now. Her mum knows we aren't well off- does that sound unreasonable and grabby?

Glad he did the sensible thing and kept your dsd.

Wrt contact I would contact social services and ask them about supervised access at a contact centre

As for maintenance I would contact the csa and see what their opinion is as the calculations are done over atwelve month ttimetable so you may just have to suck it up unfortunately

Than you for your opinions. Speaking with Social worker tomorrow, didn't think of asking her about a contact centre so I will get DH to mention it to

I have no personal experience of your situation, but I would let the CB & CSA as-is for the six weeks, if you can possibly afford to.
Any changes will likely be administratively difficult - I don't think you can make a temporary change - but more importantly any attempt will likely give DH's ex the impression that you're just after the cash.

Fester Adam's- thanks. He knows to call CSA would cause admin problems and hassle hence why he thought he would jut ask her. Not bothered what she thinks to be honest- she assaulted DSD :( But you're right, he doesn't want to look "grabby" when ex moans about it at the next
residency hearing..

I don't think it's grabby at all.

But I do suspect that it's unlikely to go down well with his ex. She's going to see it that she's had her DD taken off her unfairly, and now she's being asked to pay money as well. Plus you say she was in a bit of a mess to start with. Just doesn't look likely to me that she would pay you, much as she should. And if you've no legal backup via the CSA you'd be reliant on her good will. Would any of the wider family be able to help out a bit financially maybe? Some holiday clubs give sibling discounts which can make them a bit more affordable too.