Seriously fed up with the DSC and the dog!

[brdgrl]

Yesterday, DSS was supposed to take the dog on her morning walk. DH was out of town for a professional conference. I was gone from 10-3:30 at a previously arranged event. When I came back at 3:30, I passed DSS leaving the house with the dog. That means she was indoors since the night before, until half-three in the afternoon. And that she wasn't fed during that time either, since she gets fed right before the walk.

Today, it was DSD's turn to walk the dog. She went out last night, and has just come in. (I fed the dog and took her out in the garden earlier when it was clear that DSD wasn't going to get it done before noon.)

The dog was their's before I came along. The DSC are 16 and 19.
I can't take on the responsibility for the dog. I have too many other responsibilities already. At the same time, DH should not have to have sole responsibility, and really ought to be able to leave the house for a day and trust that two teenagers can handle this. And meanwhile, the poor dog is the one who suffers.

It's not a one-off, either. DSS used to do the Saturday walk every week, and it was part of the chores he earned pocket money for. About a year ago, we changed his chores to not include the dog walk, as he wasn't giving her proper walks.

I am so angry about this.

Haha, true Alita, still there'd be a ban on it at home. At nineteen she's pretty much an adult. If she's not capable of responsibility, or more so unwilling to take some on, how on earth is she going to manage when she moves out? It's just more of making a point of "If you won't do this, which you have agreed to do, then I'm taking the privilege away of using a mobile at home. If you want to use it then leave and use it elsewhere. Once your responsibilities are met, then by all means use your mobile at home to your hearts content." Of course, they could always take it up to their rooms and use it behind closed doors, but I'd make my feelings on using it at home without doing their agreed chores pretty clear.

There's got to be some give somewhere. They're not "kids" anymore. They can't expect to be treated like adults but not take on any responsibility. The world doesn't work like that. If they don't there's no way they'd survive out in the world without brd and her DH holding their hands.

Hi brd - it sounds like it's all coming to a head at yours. In your shoes I'd treat the kids as separate entities. DSD is old and going to leave in autumn. I'd just hold your breath and wait til she goes, leaving it on good terms. She'll change a lot while she's away. Then, when it's just DSS left get your DH to seriously take him in hand, giving him new responsibilities and expectations. You and DH will be in the majority then and he will need to live in a more 'adult' household. Maybe even move the furniture around to show it is a clean start (in Sept).

Where is their mum?

on last night because we turned the internet off! Obviously we do need to get it sorted so we're not cut off when they are, but it felt like an immediate response was needed this time...DH brought the dog walks up at dinner time and they said nothing - no apologies, no explanations, just pouting at being quite mildly told off. So that was that. DSS didn't care (sure he was online on his phone anyway) but DSD was furious.

The internet is wired in with the TV in the front room and there is a router in there. They each have a laptop plus they each have smart phones, so there are at least four points of access for them...We are with Virgin. I'm not sure about the make of router - Netgear I think- on way to work now so I'd have to check that. tabularasa, I'll look at that too - it has always been DH who has dealt with the settings in the past but maybe I need to try my hand at it. ;) I think I am more motivated.

Longer term, there really isn't much chance of taking their phones off them. It would come down to a physical confrontation, and anyway - DSD would go out and buy them new ones which we'd not know about - I find the options of what we can actually enforce to be quite limited (one of the things I detest about the new technologies!), and I think it's a mistake to set punishments we can't enforce, it ends up just making us look weak and they feel smug to have got round us.

Mum's deceased.

They can't expect to be treated like adults but not take on any responsibility.
This is pretty much my mantra, Jeordie. It has taken a long time to even get to where we are now - it used to be worse!

Croquet, I hear you. I'd really like to ride it out with DSD and have her leaving home on reasonably good terms, but at the same time, she has been taking the piss more and more the last couple of months, and I feel like we're going to have to confront it. At least about some things which will continue to be issues after September.

DH has a huge professional thing happening this week, but we have agreed to sit down afterwards and work out what we want to say to DSS regarding responsibilities, etc...Also a long term plan about the dog.

whoops - cut off beginning of my last post - just said
Sorry, I wasn't on because we turned off the internet last night.

Ah well done. I can imagine what it's like -- almost like being a first-year student with appalling halls-mates (but in your own home)!

I feel sorry for them that their mum's gone. They both sound a bit listless, and very teenage. Can it be billed to DSD in a positive light, as in you want to teach her how to do cooking/washing etc. really well so she can have exciting dinner parties/a nice flat at uni? I've found with my DSCs the more I offer to teach them the more positively they respond. Your guys are too old to be so bratty.

But the fact she's independently wealthy might be the root of the problem. She knows she'll always be ok.

Oops just read your other thread and I take back my sympathy - your DSS sounds vile.

Might he need to be sent to America to do work experience with friends of the family for the summer? I'm not joking.

almost like being a first-year student with appalling halls-mates (but in your own home)!

Ha ha! I have used exactly that analogy to DH.

WIth DSD it is definitely a combination of having her own money, and feeling she is an adult (despite having no adult responsibilities). DSD used to have chores at home, including cooking meals and washing up, and to her credit, she usually did them well and without much reminding or nagging. That started to slip though once it was no longer linked to pocket money, after she turned 18 and was living at home on different terms. Before she came into her money, we also told her she needed to have a PT job. She did well with that. And I told her that as long as she was going to classes and working, I would do her laundry for her, and we reduced her chores and rearranged things in order to give her more time for a social life around the job, which meant that she no longer had much expected of her at home. She's given up the job and gotten more and more unhelpful at home. But she knows how to cook a few things, and believes that she is very mature and self-sufficient. She totally isn't, but I am afraid that is something she can't be told. We did sit her down at one stage a year ago or longer and tell her that she needed to step up and become more mature, and it had a positive effect - which now seems to have completely reverted.

I reckon what's happening with her is more normal than your DSS she's just itching to move on, too big for the nest, and everyone at home also feels it's time for her to leave. I think that's all pretty normal and she's ready to seek her fortune though not literally the lucky sod--. Her brother on the other hand needs dealing with and will get simpler once she's left. He's probably despondent about not being able to move out/grow up too, but at the same time terrified of the idea.

Maybe have a chat with him along the lines of 'part of getting older is to take responsibility not just for keys and phones and bedtime and drs appointments but also for your emotions. We need you to be set up well so that you can go and live your life when you're 18. If you're still grieving your mum then we can get you some counselling, and that's perfectly reasonable and healthy. When you're a child it's ok to attribute your moods to things that have happened to you out of your control, but when you're an adult people have to begin making their own choices about life and shaping their own future.'

The list you've written on your other post is all about things that have happened to him where he's passive. He needs to realise we all must take our emotional wellbeings into our own hands and make choices to make ourselves happier!

Thanks, croquet. That's really sensible and well-said.

Everyone knows that if you buy pets for kids they don't look after them.

Am surprised it's taken this long to realize that.

They have someone at home who will clean up the poo and see to the pets so they won't bother.

You are assuming that the love you felt for your puss is what everyone feels for their pet and they just don't ime.

I would rehome any pets you can and get a dog walker.

At this age my DCs did homework (exam years) part time jobs and their own washing. Drove each other about (saved me hurrah) and that was about it.

Dozie, I don't expect them to look after the pets because they want to or because they care about the animals. I expect them to do as they've agreed, and to contribute to the household through whatever chores they are required to do.

I also do expect a completely different level of responsibility from a 16 and 19 year old than from an 8 or 10 year old. I don't think we are naive about this or expecting too much. The children are perfectly able to do the chores they have, and its not unusual, in the families I have been acquainted with, for kids of these ages to have a great deal more responsibility for pets than even what we are expecting. I don't agree that "everyone knows" that older teens can't be expected to walk and feed the household pets.

You are assuming that the love you felt for your puss is what everyone feels for their pet and they just don't ime.

I'm not assuming that at all, but I do think it is a bit sad that the kids are so disinterested in their pets. You say that its normal not to feel affection for one's household pets; that hasn't been my experience. Most children and teens I have known (a fair number!) love their pets even when they don't love looking after them. But again - regardless of their feelings or lack thereof, I still expect them to do a job when they are asked. They don't have to love the plates and cutlery either!

At this age my DCs did homework (exam years) part time jobs and their own washing. Drove each other about (saved me hurrah) and that was about it.
Well, we are asking rather less than this, that would be a step up. I don't expect them to do everything I did, or everything some of their relations do at the same age - just a reasonable level of responsibility and contribution.

I don't really think you are being unreasonable but it's just that them not doing their bit is winding you up and I'm wondering is it worth the hassle.

I don't really think you are being unreasonable but it's just that them not doing their bit is winding you up and I'm wondering is it worth the hassle.
Is what worth the hassle? Trying to get them to help out? But what's the alternative? Just let them be lazy, entitled muppets who take and take and make life harder at every turn??

Of course it is winding me up. We're a family of five, with two teenagers who aren't helping out, and who create an awful lot of work and expense, but think nothing ought to be expected in return. This isn't just an abstract principle, this is about every day in and outs of life.

If they don't pitch in, then DH and I do everything. If I do it myself, I am seriously overloaded. If DH does it, he's too busy to give me support when I need it, and he struggles to get his own work done. Not to mention the time it takes away from just being able to have relationships with each other, or indeed between DH and the kids.

The dog is just one example, of course, but just to look at that - DH was away Thursday PM to Saturday PM. I had DD (preschool age) to look after all day Friday and Saturday, I had work to do every evening, I had a long-standing volunteer commitment for Saturday morning, and I had work to do around the house - laundry for all, evening meals for all, washing up, hoovering (needs doing because of dog), unpacking since we only recently moved.

DSD and DSS were asked by DH to do the Friday and Saturday dog walks. They agreed and decided between themselves who would do which one. Then this happens, and they leave the poor dog to suffer, while they sleep most of the weekend, and in DSD's case, go out drinking.

So what does it mean, if I am to not let it wind me up? Well, option 1, we can get rid of the dog. DH is heartbroken, DD is heartbroken, the kids are full of resentment towards me. Not a viable solution.

Then, option 2, DH gives up on idea of asking his teenage kids to pull their weight and contribute to a working household. We decide to treat them as much younger children would be treated. He or he and I, in some combination, do all the chores. We accept that we can't leave the kids to look after things, as they are unwilling to be responsible, so either can't leave home (something that comes up regularly for work reasons), or have to hire someone to be the responsible adult in the home while away. Which I guess is where we are leaning to at present, but it doesn't make me very happy, no.

I'm following this brdgrl as I always think from your posts that you sound very reasonable and I share a lot of your feeling/views.

It seems you've got way more pissed off with this than you usually might - it's really got to you. I think in this situation I would write them off in terms of helping and being competent. I know that it's dismaying as you would want your own teen kids to be very different, and also causes a degree of cognitive dissonance with how you think of your DH effectively letting them get like this too. And also fear and idealism: you don't want your little toddler ending up like this!

I have teen stepkids that only visit, so I don't live with them, and was originally appalled at how incompetent / slobby they were (a bit different to your two, mine are I expect a little less sophisticated, and their mum is just not teaching them, and nor is my DH really if I'm honest and also he hasn't got the chance in snatches of time). I have had to massively downgrade my expectations of them, to stop imagining how I would want them to be as my kids or indeed remembering how competent I myself was as a teen (i.e. more than them). I never ask them to do anything now: just accept that there will be crisp packets all over the sofa, towels on the floor etc, that they will ask me to get them even a bowl of cereal / glass of water.

However, I recognise that the reason I can do this is because eventually they go and I can restore order. Your situation is analogous to what mine would be if I lived with DSCs. Hmmm... I think I would start by pressuring their dad until he disciplined them and got them in line. If that didn't work, or turned out to be more hassle than it was worth, or if one kid was being aggressive, I would try to completely cut them out of my expectations, i.e. hire a cleaner, treat them like children. This way maybe they can't disappoint. I know it's almost unbearable when you can't influence their behaviour but it's below par.

Sorry - bit of a rant!!!!

AAaaah, hadn't realized there are smaller DCs. I was thinking it was two entitled teens alone and that one would be left home soon. So you hadn't long to go until you had the house to yourselves.

Hi brdgrl,

I think croquet's advice is really good. Have you had that conversation with DSS, or has your DH?

I was reading this thread this morning in bed when my DS came in (he's 7). We actually had a conversation about how part of being a parent is teaching children how to be able to support themselves to be independent when they leave home. He was shocked that two older teenagers couldn't be trusted to take a dog out for a walk, and proceeded to list off a load of jobs that he does that will help him to be able to live independently when he leaves home. We also talked about being a family, and everyone sharing tasks that need doing so that one person isn't lumbered with everything. Of course, he's my son, so it's easier to have this conversation with him, and he hasn't lost a parent.

Can you and your DH just stop doing some of the chores you do for your DSS and DSD - like laundry? After having a conversation with them both about pulling their weight?

Thanks, all. It's helpful to hear these things.
Croquet, I think I feel extra frustrated right now because we had been moving in the right direction, if slowly, for so long, and the last few months have felt like a slide backwards. The kids have just started acting much worse, and at the same time, there have been a bunch of things adding to my own workload and stress, and I am more painfully aware than ever of the sacrifices I've had to make in order to maintain a status quo with the kids - one that doesn't make any sense in the first place. For the last few years, we were making progress - the kids are much better than when we started out, and happier too, and we were re-establishing some sort of 'normal family' life. And at the moment, they're just playing up and pushing things at every turn.

Shopping, I've tried 'detaching' or just stopping doing things, but it ends up making more work in the end. I refused to do DSS's laundry for a while, after one of his outbursts. He couldn't use the machine properly and without making a mess, I needed the machine to do the other laundry, and honestly I was sure he was going to break it (when he gets mad about being asked to do chores, he slams things about; so he has broken the hoover twice, that kind of thing). So he had to wash things by hand and hang them to dry...that just resulted in puddles of water everywhere, a full clothesline that I couldn't use to dry the rest of our clothes on, and meanwhile he just ran through every article of clothing he owned rather than washing any, so - no kidding - his room began to smell and he was nicking his dad's socks and pants. Which then brings us back to how to get him to clean up his mess or stop taking things without asking! We did stop some time ago making breakfast and lunch for them, but I'd be reluctant to stop having dinner together; it is one of the few things we insist on and I think without it, we'd just be more disconnected than ever.
I am going to stop doing DSD's laundry, though - I had told her I would continue to do it as long as she was studying and working, but now she's not doing either. So I am going to tell her she has one day a week where she can access the machine, and she needs to do it on that day so it is free for me the rest of the time. A small thing, but...

Brdgrl, I have sent you a message. I hope you get it and respond. x

thanks, tapper. I'm off to bed now but I will reply. :)

How's it going brdgrl? How's the dog?

Meh. No long term solution sorted, although DH and I have been talking it over and tossing around ideas.

Since last weekend, DSD had another (evening) dog walk to do, and she did that. On the other hand, she had two other chores to do over the course of the week, and did one but not the other. So I am not sure the message has totally gotten through. Tomorrow is Sunday and her day for morning dog walk again, so we will see.

DSS hasn't had to do anything all week, of course. He has told DH that he wants to look for a job this summer. In his mind, that will give him a source of money without him having to contribute anything at home.

It's a strange world. When I was a teen I had 2 jobs whilst doing A'Levels and all my chores in top. It never, ever occurred to me NOT to pull my weight.

I guess time will tell .....

It never would have occurred to me that doing nothing was an option! My mum and dad both worked, there were five of us kids, and everyone had to help out, and I worked from 15 - we didn't get pocket money. The whole standard was completely different.

Not sure what it is like by you be we have a lot of dog walking companies - could you get someone to do this (doesn't cost huge amount) and deduct from their allowance?

sanity, I think that if things don't stay on the right track (the dog at least is getting her walks now!) that's the sort of thing we'd have to do. DSD doesn't get pocket money anymore because she is 19 and has another source of income (not from work). So it would have to come from some other place, maybe just a matter of less holiday/meals out.