DSD being mean to DD

[Fuzzygel]

This is my first post on this board so be gentle.

I've got a dsd aged 10 and a dsd aged 7. Also two dd aged 9 and 5 (not with my dh), and a baby.

My dd9 has autism. She is high functioning and mostly just finds social relationships difficult, although she is very keen to have friends she's hard to get along with as comes across as quite immature, likes things to be her way and doesn't 'get' how to play with others often.

I am protective over her for obvious reasons and hate to see her left out, she is more aware as the years go by that she's struggling. Dsd10 is (in my opinion!) a bit of a madam. She has always been like this (known her for almost 5 years) and although I have always liked and cared for her I do find her overbearing and a bit sly, she must always be first, always be the best, always have the most etc. I understand some kids are just like this and also that she's just a child and all we can do is try to teach good manners, to be kind, to play nicely etc.

In recent months she is excluding dd9 more and more when they are all together (every other weekend). She appears to find dd9 a little embarrassing and deliberately leaves her out of games and activities. Dh has tried to talk to her about ensuring everyone is included but it makes no difference. I have now started to actively dislike her because of this and am struggling to stop getting upset because of the way she treats dd9.

I really don't know what to do. I've tried to discuss with dh but he just says he'll talk to her again, which accomplishes nothing. I feel as if I need to split with dh to protect dd so she doesn't have to be made to feel like a loner in her own home every other weekend. On the weekends we don't have the dsc everything is fine and dds play nicely together. I have tried to talk to dd5 about this but she's a little young and just gets dragged off with dsd. I'm trying to be fair and not just assume it's all dsds fault....but it is!

I feel sick after the weekend just gone, watching dd being sidelined yet again. She can be difficult I know but she's also lovely, caring, enthusiastic and kind.

If it happened at school the child wouldn't be forced to play with anyone they didn't want to. Why shouldn't she be allowed to play with whoever she likes? I certainly wouldn't force any of my children to play with others they didn't like; nor would I want them to be mean or horrible to another child BUT I would say if they don't like a child (which they're allowed not to, after all, us adults do the same) then to avoid them. It's sad that a child is really forced into a situation they never asked for and then expected to just cope and go along with what the adults want.

As someone else said, I'm sure the poor girl does feel that the op doesn't seem to like her that much (children aren't stupid) and who knows how that makes her feel. I have 5 dcs but only 2 of those are my dh's yet he does treat them all the same. My ex has a new partner who he's marrying this year and, from what I've been told and what I've seen, she is a great addition to their lives.

Rose schools would not force a child to play with someone, they would do exactly as the OP's husband has done and explain that it is not nice to leave someone out, but as long as they are not being nasty to the child they will just leave it to run its course

I don't think it is right that she is excluded, your dh should do something but you also need to put your foot down and discipline her too ( after all she is in your home and is bullying your dd ).

I have 3 step dc's, 2 boys and a girl, I found it hardest to bond with the girls, she was only 3 when dh and I got together, when we had dd1 I found dsd even more annoying and hard work. Dsd is now 14.5 and we get along better than she does with her dad. There was times where I had to tell her off ( I still do ) but I think she respects me more for doing it, she respects me more than dh who never told her off. Try being a bit firmer with her, don't let her think she can walk all over you. If your dh won't back you up then I would suggest that he maybe takes her out of the way for half the day so you don't have to deal with it.

Is your DSD taking the 5 and 7 year old to play with and leaving just DD1 out OP? Or do the younger ones tend to play together and your DD and DSD get left together? It's not quite clear from your post.

Don't pay any attention to the few offensive posts OP. They probably also come from the ignorant school of thought of "if you love me you would love my kids" . If it were just the two of them I doubt you would have an issue. But it sounds like all three play as a group and DD9 is the only one left out. I think that is unacceptable. I completely hear what you are saying and it's hard enough that she struggles in other environments without it also being in her home. You feel her pain but you've always been able to provide that safe haven and home full of love where she can feel fully accepted. And it feels like that has been taken away.

I disagree about schools. My children went to a very tiny (think 20 pupils in the whole school) primary school. Some year groups, like my DD's, were 3 pupils. If two or three pupils had colluded to exclude one other, which is a kind of bullying, they would have been pulled up on it. Deliberately excluding someone from something is just plain nasty. It is not about giving children freedom to choose their friends - they are siblings and always will be - it is about basic human decency and kindness.

I would suggest pulling her up on it in the sort of "This is everyone's home and in this house either everyone is invited to play or you have to play on your own" would be the answer. You need to emphasise that your DSD belongs, is a part of the family, and those are the family rules.

you have a unique experience though Rose, a school with 20 pupils has time to see the kids that are isolated for whatever reason - and i disagree that they would force kids to play together. they may point out it is unkind to leave someone out but as with adults you cannot force a someone to spend time with someone they don't like. Average sized school would probably not even notice a child being excluded in this manner and unless there was overt bullying in terms of name calling or aggressive behaviour they wouldn't do much about it - and yes i have experience of this from several schools.

play with everyone or play on your own is isolating the step daughter and likely to cause more issues imo

I think you have missed the point, mymiraclebubba which was that this behaviour is unacceptable and it would be dealt with in school. The family can use similar methods to ensure that rules about excluding a person are followed.

A family cannot see one child ostracised - it is unkind, unfair and mean.

And my experience would only have been unique were I mother of all 20 pupils.

I haven't missed the point at all but the fact remains that they can talk to the chikd about excluding the ops dd all they like but they cannot force her to include her.

She may simply just not like her. It is allowed you know

So, I my family, my DS and DH decide to do something and tell my DD she can't join in. Not because she is too young, or too talk but because they just choose to exclude her.

Really?

Children need to be taught the right way to behave and ganging up on an autistic child is WRONG.

Why does she have to be included??? My dp and his ds regularly do stuff without his dd, she isn't excluded it's just stuff they want to do together without her. Families do not have to spend all their time together in one group, there can be factions without it being a disaster or called bullying.

I am sorry, that is not a family - that is a group of individuals putting their needs first.

that is utter bs!!

families do not have to spend 24/7 living in each others pockets. they are allowed to have different interests and to pursue those without having to inflict them on others - its normal. Forcing everyone to do everything together is weird and stupid imo

I am going to stick my oar in here from a step child's pow.

I was forced to play with my 2nd step mothers dd and if this dd was being difficult or whiney (she was a lot :D) then I would get the blame.

From my pow this child was the golden perfect child and I was well aware that I was seen as lesser in the household than golden child.

I wanted to spend time with my father but if golden child was there I was rarely permitted under the ruse of " it is family time we are all together".
(I saw my father one weekend of 3 actually YES i needed some time just with my dad)

Yes it is a good thing to encourage them to play together. But there also has to be times where it is ok for them not to. There has to be time where it is time focused on the step child and not the resident children. And there has to be time where it is ok to do things alone.

OP it is clear you feel massively protective towards your DD and I understand that it is hard when you have a child who somehow is different to see others who makes it harder for your child.

Set some firm boundaries not " we include everyone here" it is way to general.

Do something like. " ok the 2 of you are playing this now that means DD and I will go and do x.. In 1 hour then we will ALL do Y.. and then stick to that. make sure it becomes the norm that there is stuff done you all take part of (cooking playing games reading watching a film together anything) and make sure there is time set aside for the step children to do things w daddy without you and your 2 dd's (baby will have to be " split" sometimes with daddy and step kids sometimes with mummy and her kids after all from what I understand baby is half sibling to all of the kids) make it all a normal part of what is expected. Sure its fine you 2 play but in x time we will all do this..

Ok now it is time for us to do (insert what ever) and then ensure there is a focus on this.

If dsd does do something kind and thoughtful to your dd PRAISE her. make sure she hears you feel she is doing good. But also permit dsd to have some away time.. Saying she HAS to play with your dd all the time will just make her resent her. You dont want that.

Don't make her excluding a huge deal but nor permit any direct meanness. If dd is told " go away we do not want to play with you" intervene not in a " we all play nicely" but in a " right since your not able to work this out we will now ALL do (insert what ever) " take over if there is meanness. But if it is a situation of dsd and younger dd naturally beginning to play or getting on it IS ok for them to have time together without your dd1.

In a school no they would not permit exclusion but nor would they force children to play they would do a similar thing to above permit the ones who are enjoying each other time and then draw in a more all rounded activity and praise when including and behaving well.

To begin with yes this way will mean a lot of input from your dh and yourself but you will reep the rewards from it.

I would suggest you and dh go to a parenting puzzle course together (ask your local childrens center) so you both come from the same point of view on how to tackle problems. will likely make you stronger as a family and a unit..

Dont permit a 10 year old to ruin what for you clearly is a good relationship. But at the same time remember she is just 10 and she is likely very confused and if there is the sensation that her feelings doesnt matter over your dd (however unintended this is) she will act up.

"Forcing everyone to do everything together is weird and stupid" - really, that is not what I said.

There are 4 children. 1 child is taking 2 children away and leaving the remaining child alone. This is not everyone doing their own thing it is one child taking control of the family and making it bend to her wishes. I agree she should be able to do things alone. I accept you can't force them together all the time.

However, she cannot be allowed to dictate who does and doesn't get involved in a game or an activity to the exclusion of the same child every time. That is bullying and if she is allowed to continue it will not be in the interests of the family, of the DD or of the child doing the bullying.

A 10 year old is ruining a family to the extent that the other child's mother is considering ending a good relationship over it - and mymiraclebubba thinks the 10 year old should just be allowed to do what she wants.

Really?

as the OP hasn't confirmed that her DSD is taking both children away then you are making a massive assumption. She is also biased towards her own daughter who has SN so is hardly an objective onlooker to this.

I am not saying she is wrong to be protective, but she is singling her daughters needs out over and above those of her DSD - her needs and wants are just as valid, so yes i am saying that forcing her to play with the other child is weird. Read the post from frikadellen - she is a step child and is backing up exactly what i am saying

Social exclusion, leaving a child out, and ignoring them is a well recognised and acknowledged form of bullying - particularly amongst tween girls.

Schools and group-organisations have specific strategies for identifying and dealing with this behaviour.

It's easy to dismiss the OP and say she's being overprotective, unrealistic or unfair on her DSD - but if her DD is being bullied, then what?

Thanks Frog

Two of my kids find it hard to play nicely together so I get them to play apart. Obviously it is not ok to exclude one child from a group. If the group is not functioning together could you make a rule that says that no one should be left on their own so if they cant all play together then they should do stuff in smaller groups or you could do something with dd9. I really dont think it is worth leaving your marriage for especially as you are likely to encounter difficulties like this if your dd has these issues. Have you talked to sd about what it is she doesnt like about dd or what she finds difficult about her behaviour. You seem to be all about your dd and not thinking about things from your sds point of view. Leaving children out is not good but having to play with someone who is disruptive and wants things their own way is no fun either. You need to sort it out by talking to both girls and working out something that meets both their needs and the youngers ones also.

Fuzzy gel I think you are right if you had 3 dads and 2 of them played and left one out you would tell them it was not acceptable just because they are your dsds does not make it ok for a child to be left out. From your post I think dsd has picked up on the fact that your dd because of her condition gets more attention from you and your dh as your prob more protective over her even if you don't show it kids pick up on these things and she's jealous so to make it right in her mind she excludes her. Pls read my Disney dad and his goody goody son thread this is not healthy, I don't care what others say if anyone that's posted above had 4 children and 3 played together and excluded the other this wud be unacceptable just them saying well it's her step sisters and you can't force them is wrong most stepfamilies encounter jealousy and if it isn't nipped in the bud and kids told to behave how they should then families can be divided. To all who have posted saying you can't force them to get on would you say this about 4 bio kids or is it just ok for the ops dsd to not like her dd just cause they are step siblings? I don't know of a mother that would let this happen between her bio kids so stepkids shouldn't have a special rule. Fuzzy gel stick to your guns xxxx

I would also say you can't force biological siblings to play together. They won't anyway if they don't want to, so you would be wasting your breath. I know several bio families where siblings just don't get on.

The way round it, as I suggested, is for a parent to organise an inclusive game that all can play. Left to their own devices children will not play with those they don't want to.