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Step-parenting

Some advice about contact please....

190 replies

SnowWhiteWinter · 30/11/2012 21:19

Hello. I'm hoping someone here may have been in a similar position as we are and can perhaps help or give some advice in general.

I have 2 dsc, they are both young (3 and 5). They live with my partner and I 50% of the time and with their mum the other 50% of the time.

My partner is currently having a few problems negotiating contact arrangements with their mum. Basically they have agreed that the minimum number of handovers as possible is best for everyone, as there have been problems at handover time previously. Plus we don't live that close to each other so daily handovers would be difficult for them both. They have agreed the children will stay with each of us for a week at a time and this is already happening.

My partner and I think the children are still too young to not see their mum or dad for 8 days at a time as a permanent setup. They get really upset on handover days because they miss the other parent during that time. Their mum has agreed with this. My partner has proposed that they spend one midweek night overnight with the other parent the weeks they are not with them (hope that makes sense) so they only ever go 3/4 days at a time without seeing their mum or dad. However, due to her new work rota which she has recently had put in place as flexible working she works long hours most days the weeks they are with us and much fewer hours the weeks they are with her. She has said because of this she cannot have them for a midweek overnight the weeks they are with us. My partner has offered to be flexible and help facilitate it for her and change her day each time around her days off or even if she can't do it every week just some, but she has said for that reason she will not be agreeing to the children staying with us a midweek overnight as it's not "fair". Meaning it would not be exactly 50/50.

My partner has written to her and explained it is what is best for the children that counts not what is best or "fair" for the adults. She has said her decision is final and will not discuss it further. :(

So, do any of you fellow stepmums here (or other people on this forum) have any advice?

My partner is considering applying to court regarding this, something we can't really afford if we can avoid it. There is currently no court order at all regarding residency of the children, they have tried to keep away from courts and made informal arrangements until now. However, he strongly feels it would be better for the children and she won't accept that. Does anyone have experience of family court practices? Could he apply to court for this (specific issue order could be what he needs from what we have looked up online) despite there being no current residency order? Or if he applies to court for this issue will the court/Cafcass want to bring about a full residency case? He and dsc mum both agree 50/50 with each parent (roughly) is best for the children so neither would try and go for sole residency or a much greater share of time than they currently have, it's just this one night per fortnight.

Any advice greatly received x

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pinguthepenguin · 03/12/2012 11:02

I don't see why op's ex should be encouraged to seek primary residency simply because she won't bend to their will.
Also, sorry snow- but none of the 'expenses' you just listed justify the pursuing of her through the CSA. Milk costs 16 quid a year...coats and shoes, she will have to supply those in her weeks as well, hats and a small child's uniform? Nope, sorry. If you were talking about a teenager, i could understand because they are expensive- but you say there aren't even any childcare expenses for these kids, so you aren't exactly paying hand over fist for them- unless I've missed something else?

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pinguthepenguin · 03/12/2012 11:03

That should say 'op's DP, not ex

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:04

NotadisneyMum... DP claiming maintenance through CSA due to their mum not contributing financially is not distressing DSD's at all. I very much doubt that DSD's mum would allow them to have midweek contact if he dropped the CSA claim so I don't think that it is her sole motivation to refuse, although it may be part of it.

I very much believe all parents should be financially responsible for their children, we always here about dad who refuse to provide financially for their children, well sometimes it's mums too, as hard a sit is to believe. Ideally she should just pay for things for the DSD's whilst they are with her, but she won't. So we should have to pay for everything because she doesn't want to? Her expecting us to pay for everything causes bad feeling and resentment :(

My DP hasn't been advised not to go to court, he has been advised that if he did it is possible that she may change her mind. But I see your point about us already having in it writing and how it would look very obvious is she changed her mind at court. He is seeing his solicitor this week. Hopefully she will give him some advice on how to move things along and secure a permanent and stable routine for the children. I am more than happy to have the children in our home more often, or even just the same amount of time but in a different pattern that is better for them. There isn't anything more to it, all quite simple really.

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NotaDisneyMum · 03/12/2012 11:04

As a family we decided that it was best for me to not work at the monmet as he has a good wage and a good career. His EX isn't funding anything. All he wants is her to take responsibility for half the costs of their children and he will take responsibility for the other half. How they both spend whatever they have left is up to them surely.

That makes it even easier then! If your DP gives up the CB for his DC's, and drops the claim for CSA, then it won't affect you or your family at all, because he has the disposable income to make it up!
Of course, neither you or your DP actually "know" what her financial circumstances are, and I hope you haven't implied to her that you do. I remember how much bad feeling it caused when my ex assumed to know what my financial circumstances were post-split, based on assumptions, historical knowledge and gossip.

The best thing for the DC's is to reduce conflict as much as possible, and if that means biting your tongue, accepting that some things aren't "fair" and acknowledging that your DSC mum is doing her best (just as your DP is) then their lives will become a lot better straight away. I know it's tempting to point score and stick to your guns (I've done it myself), but it really isn't good for the DC's and really, what difference does it make if you pick up a few second-hand clothes for the DC's now and again? Or go without a bottle of wine at the weekend so they can have milk at school on the weeks they are with Mum?

You have said that your DSD has emotional problems that she needs support with; isn't that an indication that the current situation isn't good for her?

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NotaDisneyMum · 03/12/2012 11:06

I am more than happy to have the children in our home more often, or even just the same amount of time but in a different pattern that is better for them. There isn't anything more to it, all quite simple really.

What about having them in your home less? I have asked why your DP fears that set of circumstances; have you thought about it at all?

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NotaDisneyMum · 03/12/2012 11:07

DP claiming maintenance through CSA due to their mum not contributing financially is not distressing DSD's at all.

If it is causing you (and her) resentment, then it is affecting the DSC - teachers at the school are talking to you about your DSC emotional wellbeing, so surely it makes sense to reduce conflict between her parents? Children are not stupid and will pick this up.

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allnewtaketwo · 03/12/2012 11:12

"My two other children are not my DP's. He is not "funding" me to be a SAHM at all. As a family we decided that it was best for me to not work at the monmet as he has a good wage and a good career"

If you don't work, and any maintenance you receive is not sufficient to cover all the costs for your own 2 children, then he IS funding you to be a SAHP, end of.

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NotaDisneyMum · 03/12/2012 11:14

we always here about dad who refuse to provide financially for their children, well sometimes it's mums too, as hard a sit is to believe. Ideally she should just pay for things for the DSD's whilst they are with her, but she won't.

I have never seen a Dad being castigated for not financially contributing when they have their DC's 50% of the time and their ex receives CB and tax credits. In fact, I have seen several single mums criticised for expecting CM in that situation over on the LP board.

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:16

Pingu - I don't know if DP will seek primary residency, it's not something we have discussed in full before certainly nt something he would rush into, just from advice on here of course. Recently we have just been working on the DSD's building a relationship with their mum who previously was only having them 1/2 nights a week. He certainly doesn't expect her to bend to DP's will, but she was in agreement that alternate weeks 50/50 was only a trial and that it would be reviewed and discussed. The concerns raised by the school and the fact the eldest is often being taken to school late added to the fact she agrees the kids should have more regular contact and miss the other parent lots and it's upsetting them are reasons to change week-at-a-time, her new work rota is her reason not to.

We buy everything for the children! As I said, I just bought new uniform for the eldest last week to have at her house and sent it back with them. School dinner money alone for the eldest is £40 a month. Last month it was wellies and umbrellas, new hats and gloves, two months ago we bought their new winter coats. Oh and this month their also need new trainers, we will be buying those. We also pay for the youngest to go to toddler football once a week. All the little things add up and really as their mother she should be covering half the expenses of her children as should my DP as their father.

I don't know you as a poster as I haven't been here long but you seem very defensive of their mum and so I assume you may have children and be separated and they have a step mother too? I do understand your points and believe me I would never stand in the way of a mother and her children, I do my very best to be a good step mum and help their relationship too.

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allnewtaketwo · 03/12/2012 11:16

OP you have just posted on another thread that your DSCs will get 2 christmases with 2 stockings and 2 sets of presents. This doesn't sound like a situation where the mother doesn't buy her children anything

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allnewtaketwo · 03/12/2012 11:18

tbh if I was their mother and was being pursued for maintenance in this situation, then I wouldn't be buying the trainers, coats etc either

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:24

I agree with your points Notsdisneymum. Believe me I often have to bite my tongue and walk away and sometimes it is really hard. We don't get tax credits and most of the CB is put into trust fund for the DSD's. Their mum and my DP agreed this years ago, perhaps she might agree to changing that and we drop the CSA claim and use the CB for expenses for the children.

We could easily transfer the CB to her but I strongly guess DP would still be paying for everything for the children. It is also possible she would stop the CB going into the trust funds and DP would still be paying for everything. Surely her refusing to contribute financially to her children shouldn't be rewarded with DP passing her the CB. He is trying to encourage her to be responsible for the children, not just drop them back early after contact because she has social plans and expect us to be home for her (she used to do this and of course we used to make sure we were there to take them back) and be financially responsible for them too. DP does know some about her financial situation as he is still good friends with her parents. They would tell him straight away if she were struggling and she isn't, at all.

Allnewtaketwo - Maintenance I receive for my two children does cover all of our costs. he is not "funding" us at all.

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:27

Allnewtaketwo.... She doesn't pay for or buy them any of the day-to-day things, we do all that. She is not some horrible monster who refuses to buy her children Xmas presents, there is a big difference, of course she buys them toys for Xmas.

Secondly, she is being pursued for maintenance, yes, but isn't actually paying it! What do you think is a fair solution then? She pays for nothing and we pay for it all? :(

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allnewtaketwo · 03/12/2012 11:27

Well in your own ex's case then I would be very aggrieved. Why should he alone be financially providing for your joint children? You and your DP sound like you are very well suited.

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pinguthepenguin · 03/12/2012 11:32

OP to be Frank, I don't believe you are being completely truthful, hence the tone of my posts. Sometimes when you canvass opinion on a scale like this, you are going to get people disagreeing with you- there seems to be a unanimous voice here telling you that your DP's decision to pursue her for money is wrong, but you aren't listening.

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:33

Because that is what my EX and I have agreed for our children and we are both happy with the arrangement, it's informal and not via CSA. That isn't anything to do with my partner, his Ex or their children though, I was just trying to point out that my DP doesn't fund my children.

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NotaDisneyMum · 03/12/2012 11:34

I just bought new uniform for the eldest last week to have at her house and sent it back with them. School dinner money alone for the eldest is £40 a month. Last month it was wellies and umbrellas, new hats and gloves, two months ago we bought their new winter coats. Oh and this month their also need new trainers, we will be buying those. We also pay for the youngest to go to toddler football once a week. All the little things add up and really as their mother she should be covering half the expenses of her children as should my DP as their father.

Well, you didn't really buy a new school uniform did you? "We" didn't buy new coats, "we" won't be buying new trainers, and "we" don't pay for football club. you aren't earning, so it is their Dad who is paying for these things, and if he is choosing to buy new, pay for extras etc, then that really is an issue you have with him - not expect his ex to cover half the costs of whatever he chooses to buy.

I remember my ex demanding that I pay half of the cost of something he had bought DD; when I had just won an ebay auction for the same item, so I refused to pay for it. Your DP and his ex need to communicate if they are going to split costs 50:50; but in these circumstances, it really sounds that it is causing too much conflict - unless she is earning a ridiculous amount of money, the financial gain is minimal so this is about the principle (and as you have said up-thread, you consider a parent should contribute towards their DCs) but it is really worth the upset it is causing the girls?

The fact that your DSC mum wasn't able to be primary carer for her own DC's when they were very young/babies after the split is an indication that she has been through some difficult times - either she is unwilling to be a part of their lives, in which case they will be better of in their Dads care, or she is doing the best she can in difficult circumstances; in which case your DP should be supporting her to maintain a relationship with their DC's, not making it difficult for her by sticking rigidly to principles.

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:34

Pingu....I am listening, totally, and I am very appreciative of all your opinions and time taken to post here. I totally understand most of you don't agree and I can see why too.

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pinguthepenguin · 03/12/2012 11:38

You don't pay for everything though, you just don't! Are you saying they wear plastic bags for the week she is with them? Who clothes them then? Who pays for childcare for them when she goes to work for one or two days then? Seriously, the things you say you are paying are normal expenses, perhaps a bit more than you'd like but that's because you get 160ish quid a month for them in CB. Are you saying that those kids cost more than that every month? (given that there are no childcare costs?)

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allnewtaketwo · 03/12/2012 11:38

OP, in a post above you stated "Yet, in our house we have 4 children to buy clothes, school dinners, school milk, shoes, uniform, coats, trainers etc"

Now you've said "Maintenance I receive for my two children does cover all of our costs"

You have contradicted yourself here

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elliebellys · 03/12/2012 11:38

Snow you say both parents should provide,if your a sahm nd your ex is paying maintenance for your dcs,then how are you providin your share.?.

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allnewtaketwo · 03/12/2012 11:40

Also, you said that "CSA have said they will shortly be deducting it direct from source, it is only a very small amount"

Yet you say she is on a very good wage (and earns pretty much the same as your DP who doesn't quality for tax credits)

How can the csa claim be a very small amount in this situation?

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NotaDisneyMum · 03/12/2012 11:43

Once a couple are split, there isn't always the luxury of trust funds etc - the CB is there for the good of the DCs - and at the moment, your DP's choice to put it in trust and pursue their mum for CSA monies instead is anything but good for them.
What will your DPs ex do if he chooses to use the CB for things for the DC's instead of putting it in trust? She doesn't have to agree - legally, he has financial responsibility for his DC's because he is receipt of CB and is entitled to CM. If he wants that responsibility, he should do what is best for the DC's, not try to negotiate with their Mum who you have presented as being disinterested in their wellbeing.


DP does know some about her financial situation as he is still good friends with her parents. They would tell him straight away if she were struggling and she isn't, at all.

This is crap (excuse my language) - I've been on the receiving end of this and it's horrible.
I needed years of counselling and have become estranged from my parents because they remained good friends with my ex. I soon learnt that anything I told them got straight back to exH, so I stopped confiding in them - I doubt very much whether your DP exIL have any idea what is really happening in their daughters life.

What a mixed up, emotionally damaging situation for everyone. the adults can make choices, but the DC's have no choice, and it seems there is little likelihood of any of the adults involved putting the DC's first.

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Xalla · 03/12/2012 11:44

Sorry, got to ask, but are you buying all their stuff because of the 'control' it affords you?
I can't belive that a woman with a decent career would send her kids to school with shoes that are worn through.
I say this because I've seen it happen in the 'bad old days' with my DH and his ex.
No mother really wants to see their kids poorly dressed. The ones that are really, poorly dressed are usually the ones who's Mums have BIG problems of thier own - problems that would prevent them from having a successful career!

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SnowWhiteWinter · 03/12/2012 11:47

Pingu.. DSD's CB goes into trusts funds, well I think about 90% of it. This was agreed by both parents and always has been the case. We get no tax credits. She has no childcare costs, friends and family babysit when she works the weeks they are with her. DP pays for clothing items, uniform and coats trainers etc for them to wear at her house as well as ours.

Elliebellys.. My Ex and I decided we would rather one of us be a SAHP than full tiem childcare. I provide my share by looking after them full time and he provides financially. I could work and he could reduce his hours but we choose not to. This is a totally different scenario to my DP and his EX.

Allnew... It's a very small amount as there is a massive reduction as she has the children 50/50.

This is not all baout money though, this is about contact arrangements, the money thing is something everyone seems to have an issue with but isn't really a huge (if any) part of the problem.

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