Anyone who is willing to listen/give advice to a selfish old bag!

[gingerbreadlady]

Hi There, nervous about posting as I do know I am not being very nice and am embarrassed to admit it but here goes.
I have 3 DD's and DP has 2 DS's. We also have a baby of our own on the way due in October. Im going to try keeping a very long story brief here. DPs ex wife and mother to the DS's is an alcoholic and drug user. The 2 boys got removed from her care over a year ago and have been either staying with maternal Grandparents where they were happy and settled as this was/is near the school they attend and in the same village as Mum- we live over an hour away.
After a year, sadly 1 G'parent died and the Boys have gone into temporary foster care as it looks like Mum is finally ready after completing various parenting courses and drying out clinics, to have them awarded back to her albeit on a very highly supervised care order. The problem comes in here, Its still a little sketchy as to whether they will go back, not 100% yet and so DP has been asked by the courts and his solicitor if in the event of her not being seen fit can they come and live with him, ie us. If we dont have them this scenario coming into play, they will go into long term care which of COURSE he as a loving and responsible Father does not want and yes, he wants to say they can live with us permantely and we will bring them up. In case you havn't guessed it, I am most firmly NOT in agreement. I do care about them am not without feeling, id be sad and of course feel guilty if they do go into care and I would also hate to let DP down in this way as he has been a wonderful and supportive step father to my own DD's making me as I said, very selfish and its very one sided I know but there is a reason.
Through no fault of their own, bad parenting and being moved house, time in and out of care etc these 2 boys are just horrendous.
The eldest especially who is 11 is intolerable. He swears, steals, lies ALL the time and is extremely manipulative. All to be expected I guess with what hes been through.The younger little boy who is 7 is a bit better but also completely unruly and also swears a lot. I just in all truth cannot cope with them full time and neither can my own 3 DD's. I have a baby on the way and my partner himself is suffering depression and having counselling so I have a lot on my plate and honestly dont think I could survive 2 more kids let alone those 2. The problem is that my DP and rightly so, would leave our home, me, my 3 DD's and our new baby to raise his boys rather than let them go into care. He is a good Dad and says he cannot just abandon them as they are his responsibility so he would have no choice but to "chose" them over me/us even though its a dreadful position for the poor man to be in and we have had some almighty rows about it and my refusal to change my mind and give into to agreeing to give the boys a home. I just know in my heart I cannot do it and I certainly cannot give them the specialist care that they need. SO fully prepared for any comments but and dont really know what I am hoping for by posting except to hopefully find some listening ears as I am quite desperate : (

Here's a link to an article about the sort of thing I meant:

www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/02/09/2011/117386/can-boarding-schools-help-prevent-children-being-taken-into-care.htm

ginger, I am a SP and a mum, if my 2 step kids had to live with us as there mum could no longer have them, I would opt to live in a separate home from my DH along with our child. I would expect DH to look after his kids to prevent them being put into care. Yes it would be unfair to our child to see her father less, but the lesser evil. If my step kids lived with us all the time (and they are frankly wonderful compared to yours) it would destroy our marriage.

This is an awful situation for all concerned because there's no one right answer which is going to a) meet the needs and b) protect the well-being of ALL parties involved. Whatever the eventual outcome, people are going to get hurt in varying degrees.

I agree that it's far far better to recognise and admit your own limitations because it's vital that anyone raising disturbed and/or vulnerable kids are committed to it 100%. I actually think it'd be more irresponsible to embrace a situation if you doubted your own capabilities to cope - and therefore give false hope to the kids and your DP - than to walk away. Trying to muddle through if your heart wasn't in it from the start would almost certainly end in a bigger mess somewhere down the line, and that's before you consider the potential adverse impact upon your own children, which is of equal importance in all this. You're their mum, and you'd be failing in your duty to them if you placed them in a scenario where there's likely to be damaging side effects.

Of course .... what this means is that, as suggested already by others, the "best" solution is to live in separate households - at least for now (who knows what might happen in the future?). I think that'd give you peace of mind but there's no escaping the fact that that prospect must also feel very disappointing and daunting. Your hopes and dreams for a life with DP would be pretty much shattered and then you have the practical burden of caring for a new baby on your own (which presumably you hadn't planned upon doing). Invariably, there'll probably be financial consequences too. I am so so sorry Gingerbread .... your situation is my worst nightmare. I strongly suspect that if I'd ever been confronted with this scenario, I'd be writing a post almost identical to yours as I'd have very similar to yours.

When will the courts decide what's happening ?

very similar concerns to yours .....

Well done for being able to say that it would be too much.

Ideally your DP should have had these boys now rather than temp foster care and ideally he should find a home for him and his boys. However as others have said if he is depressed is he capable of caring for these boys?

I think if there are doubts about that he would be better not taking them as i think taking them and then giving them up a few months on because of his depression could have a worse affect on these boys.

Such a hard situation and i feel for you

What does your husband think about you now?

This could eat away at him that the woman he married won't make sacrifices for his children. I realise you didn't sign up to this but it's in your lap now and if I were in your husbands position I'd be leaving you to care for my children so either way this could ruin your relationship.

This could also set a bad precedent for your children if they grow into difficult teens- imagine if he then felt they were too difficult.

I'm not trying to bash but this is just a bad situation, there are hurt children and their father isn't in the position to support them because of you and your hands being full with your children.

And this could be a major factor of his depression, being torn between his wife and his sons and feeling as though he has no options and may be reluctant to discuss this with you fearing it would make things worse.

Have just read the article purpleroses linked to. I do think it might be worth talking to the social work team about, and investigating funding - as all of you are caught between a rock and a hard place as things stand.

sleepless how typical - kick her when she is down. What does her husband think of her now??? When she is taking care of him through his depression and carrying his child? Where does it say his depression has just come on because his wife doesn't feel able to take on his children? If he is in counselling now then I would think his depression is pretty established as that isn't usually arranged overnight.

I think the OP should be applauded for admitting to having a problem with this. Maybe the OP didn't consider that these children would come and live with them but it doesn't sound as if their dad did either and he is the one with the responsibility for them.

I would be amazed if social services would think it appropriate for these boys to move in with their depressed dad. It's not fair on him and it's not fair on them. Mistakes have been made from the start but none of it is the fault of the OP yet some of you seem to think it is her responsibility to deal with it.

I read this this morning and it stuck with me all day. OP you are in such a difficult position and I really feel for you. What's best for your DH's sons is not going to be best for your DDs or your new baby. I would have exactly the same perspective in your situation.

I don't have any advice but hopefully some of the suggestions by other posters will help.

I agree totally that what's best for the DP's children is not going to be the best for the OP's children and new baby. If the boys come to live with their father, it will probably be very traumatic for the OP's children, not to mention the OP. And how appropriate would it be to have two disturbed youngsters around a new baby? That worries me too. You could almost imagine, sadly, a situation where the baby is deemed 'at risk' due to the arrival of the boys, which would be ridiculous. On the other hand, is it fair to let the boys go into care when they have the chance to live with their father? I don't know how social workers look at this sort of thing, I would hope they look at the whole picture?

I honestly think that living separately is the only way to survive this. I really feel for the OP.

Sleepless - what a horrible judgemental post.
OP - my DSC aren't as troubled as yours and I would really struggle to take them on full time. My ultimate responsibility is to my dc and they would suffer if DSS and DSD moved in permanently and I'm almost certain that my relationship with DP would crumble under the pressure.

I really want to thank those who posted such kind and supportive messages, when this thread started and from the tone of the first few posters I thought I was in for an almighty bashing- which I expected and felt I deserved TBH.

But to read others come forward who have shared some understanding and even admitted they too would feel similar in my situation has helped me so much to drag myself out of the not very nice place I was in when I originally posted, I really appreciated people coming forward, its not an easy subject at all. Just to reply to a few, no I did not cause my DP depression sleepless, he has a longstanding severe case of depression which started age 14 and eventually led to him being sectioned for his own safety at age 20, due to being abused as a child and it not being dealt with.
It is under control now (we are in our late 30's) with meds the last year of therapy but he is still fragile and although a wonderful Father who would dearly love to raise his children, I dont think SS would let him as they are in need of 2 very well adjusted and emotionally stable parents.
I did not consider this would happen when we met no. If they were living with him when we got together then it would have been a different kettle of fish, but they were settled with Mum and we had NO IDEA she was in with a wrong crowd and recentlky gone down a slippery slope of addiction and dependancy. The boys were sent to live with their Gparents when it all started and were very happy there, this is where the themselves wanted to live. They do not want to live with us and do not enjoy their bi weekend visits as we have ruls like normal parents that they are not used to- ie a set amount of time on the xbox, broccolli on your plate and bed before midnight!
Anyway I digress, its is a very long story with lots of different parts which led to us getting to this point. Th e final hearing is in a couple of months and they reall want to go back to their Mum so I hope for them she has managed to sort herself out, everyone deserves a second chance but only if she can put them first this time as they deserve it. Purpleroses, many thanks for the link, I read it, showed it to DP and we thought it was really interesting and very much worth considering as an option so thankyou. I will continue to update on the progress if anone is interested and read any further posts as the support has been so surprising and very welcome x

I hope it all works out for everyone, really do.

Ginger can I be very arrogant and point you towards my threads (i have no idea how to link sorry!) I was in a similar situation to yours a few years ago, without knowing backgrounds and surrounding influences no-one has the right to judge you on this. Your situation sounds more complicated and I think you are fantastic and strong to stand up for what, in the ling run, will be best for everybody.

Sorry if my posts were horrible and judgemental, absolutely not the intention but as a depression sufferer in a blended family I thought it was relevant to consider how the husband is responding to the situation and his wife's feelings about his children. Thought it made sense but obviously not. Sorry to kick you when you're down and I absolutely didn't want to make you think you are the cause of his depression, I was trying to say how this situation could be a huge trigger to his existing condition. I will bow out.

gingerbread To be honest, i dont think you are being selfish at all, me and my husband 2 be had this discussion awhile back about what if something happens to the kids mother (aged 8 and 10) and i told him that i would not take the children on full time as there are alot of issues with me and his children. It may sound harsh me saying that, but your main priority are your children and if they will suffer tremendously if these children came to live with you, then no its not fair to put ur kids through that. Its not ur step childrens fault the way they are, but its not urs or ur childrens fault either so why should you suffer because of it? Do the courts know that ur partner needs caring for? if so i dont think they will allow him to have them anyway if he isnt able to care for himself in whatever way. It is not selfish to think of ur own wellbeing and ur childrens wellbeing, and if by putting your own children first and that makes u selfish, then id hate to think what a selfish mum actually is.

In answer to ur question - if the situation is how you say it is then no i wouldnt have them living with me.