From his point of view...

[theredhen]

DP and I have had a couple of nice long chats and I wanted to post as if he had done so, just so I can get a feel for what other people think.

"Have been with my DP for nearly 3 years. My ex wife left me for another man 5 years ago taking my 4 kids with her. I have contact on Fri from school til Mon taking to school every other weekend and then 1 night in the week from and to school as well, I also have them for half the holidays but this sometimes works out as more than half, which I am very happy about. I love my kids loads and want them around me all the time, I've never been to court, but have had loads of hassle from my ex mainly when she tries to limit contact when she feels lonely. I speak to my kids everyday and get involved in their schooling and running them around when it's not my day to have contact.

We live in a house that is owned by the company I work for. I've been here for a long time and my ex wife lived here, so the kids all have their old rooms and there is continued stability in their life here. I work mainly from or within a few miles of home, so am around all the time. DP works 4 or 5 days a week out of the house several miles away.

DP has a son who lives with us most of the time, he does have contact with his Dad but this is always when my kids are with their Mum. This means that we get some adult time which I love and I like to take DP out to dinner and generally have some special couple time. Where we live means there is a lot of driving to be done and I do a lot of this for DP's son as she is often at work or doing houseworky type stuff. When we have my kids, I help out with the cooking by preparing veg etc and I always do the washing up. I always back her up if she asks my kids to do something and she has implemented a few house rules which I think my kids are responding to well. DP does the shopping and all the washing, general tidying etc and we have a cleaner for everything else. If it fits in with her work or with the ferrying around of DP son, she will do some ferrying for my kids too.

When I make arrangements with my ex wife to see the kids, I never know what sort of reaction I am going to get. DP has recently got upset and has mentioned before that she would like to be "consulted" before I make arrangements. She says that she wants to spend just 1 day every 6 weeks (ie. the school holidays) with her son without my kids being there. She says she really misses that time with him and says the odd hour in the evening that she gets with him is not enough and weekends are always taken up with my children. There have been a few ocassions she has taken her son out to see her family or friends without my kids but she says she feels guilty when she does that. She says our home doesn't feel like her home, but I try to consult her on things and we have re-decorated the old marital bedroom completely. She broke down in tears the other day saying she just wants one day at home with her son without being consumed by 4 other children. She says her son is so busy trying to "fit in" with my kids that she never sees him when my kids are here and I must admit she spends a lot more time with my girls than the boys - I think the girls seek her out and I know both her and them enjoy some feminine conversation. She is good with my kids and I know they think the world of her but I can't help feeling she is being a bit precious of her only child. Surely we are one big family of 7 now? I will not see my children any less and in fact am looking forward to having them more as I can now have them when I am at work all day and the eldest ones can look after the youngest, meaning I will get time with them in the evening before they go to bed. DP says this isn't fair on her, but I would be doing this if she wasn't here, so I feel it is unfair of her to try and limit this. I already leave her with the children when I work a few hours at weekends and before school and when 1 of the children needs taking somewhere, obviously the others stay at home with her, but I would be leaving them home alone anyway as they are all teenager age anyway apart from the 7 yr old.

What do you think?"

mrredhen "I already leave her with the children when I work a few hours at weekends and before school "

You see that line alone shows how unreasonable it is not to consult DP about when you are having the children. So basically you and your ex come to an arrangement which suits you both, and then the children, all 4 of them, are frequently left for your DP to look after during her weekends, after having been out at work all week. That is completely unreasonable.

My DS is an only child and I absolultely love the time I have with him alone, as I work all week as well. When DP has his older kids over, he doesn't have a problem with me doing stuff alone with DS, so long as we also make sure we do family stuff during the weekend as well. I would be so if DH made arrangements with his ex without consulting me, especially if he then buggered off to work and left them for me to look after

This is all very confusing, I've been reading this and thinking why are they all having a pop at red hen? - I know, I know it's MrRedHen really.

I just wanted to say to MrRedHen, it is unfair to constantly leave your children with theredhen, they are there to visit you and have time with you. As one of my lovely friends here calls it, it's contact by proxy.

My own DH used to do this a lot, and it only caused resentment all round, from the children toward me - because they wanted their Dad not me, from the exWife to me and their Dad - because he wasn't being a Dad, and from me toward the children and their Dad - because ultimately I was doing all the parenting and getting all the stick all round.

Thankfully they are teenagers now and starting to get out and do other things if DH is busy. DH now realises it was unfair on me and them - but the resentment has been damaging to all our relationships. (I must add that telling the ExWife "I'm working, please don't send the children until Sunday" was practically impossible, that I understood)

I hope MrRedHen you see how damaging it is before it's too late to fix.

Agree with Allnew. I'm afraid that after reading aboout the situations many women find themselves in I've become rather cynical in my old age, and I truly believe that some men with children seek out relationships not for the relationship's sake, but so their "burden" - of looking after children - is eased by another pair of adult hands. These men think nothing of agreeing to have their children over (so ex is happily child free) and then buggerinjg off themselves, taking it for granted that without any discussion whatsoever their patner will happily provide childcare free of charge regardless of any plans she may have had, or how she might be feeling. I can't help but feel that some men are extremely sexist about this .... there is almost an expectation that the woman (because childcare is women's work innit) should do this without complaint, and any objections are met with hostility and accusations that she's being selfish, not thinking of the kids and so on.

It's a scenario I've read about too often for it not to be true at least in some cases. I can't say if these men consciously seek out someone to play nursemaid/housekeeper or whether it's a subconscious thing but fact is, once the relationship is established, the woman is taken advantage of - seemingly because she's a female. Some men appear to get most offended if their partner doesn't love his children as much as he does for example, or if she baulks at having to give up all her free time for them. It's like she's not allowed to be an individual. What I will never understand either - unless it's an emergency scenario, is why NRPs arrange "contact" with their children and then promptly disappear. Sorry .... but unless the SM has agreed upfront, then doing that is treating her like a babysitter ... with both natural parents doing their own thing and the SM dumped upon.

We can all see that Redhen asking for one day - one day !!! - on her own every 6 weeks or so in what is supposed to also be hers and her DS's home, is a completely reasonable request. The fact her DP obstructs this is incredibly selfish compared to what she does for him and his children. I can't help feeling that he's either jealous or threatened - or both - by the notion of his partner having 1 to 1 time with her child. Maybe I'm thinking too deeply, but it seems like he's saying you belong to me and my kids, no-one else can have you. I feel really sorry for Redhen's DS too .... he has also had a lot to contend with and by all accounts is doing pretty well at adapting.

Allnew, sometimes I raise my eyebrows when DP goes off with one child to do something for several hours, leaving me with his 3 and my 1 at home. Sometimes, a "is that OK?" would be appreciated so that he is showing I don't "have" to look after his children but I am and he appreciates it. He would try and say that he spends time with DS when I am at work, but the truth is most weeks I spend more time alone with his children than he spends alone with my son - I could also multiply the time by 3 or 4 depending on how many are left with me. Again, I don't mind looking after them, they are "our" children and they are part of my life and I share my home with them, but nobody likes being taken for granted.

Although DP has never admitted it and never given me any inckling that he wants an extra adult to help him out, I do feel that he has benefitted plenty by me moving in, whereas I am so busy sometimes I don't get a minute to myself and never, ever do I get a peaceful time at home. Sometimes I escape to a friends, but I don't get that peaceful time at home.

Catsmother - you make a very good point. I haven't mentioned in this thread up to now but I have had times when DP has "snapped" at me for showing DS affection with him stating that I am treating him like a "woos" when I give DS a bit of physical affection when he asks for it. He also got stroppy once when I went out with DS for the day and left him on his own. He has also said to other people that he finds it "strange" that I am so involved with DS and that he had no understanding that an only child also sees their parent as a playmate. However, it is perfectly OK for him to play rough and tumble with his son, for him/me to read his youngest stories at bedtime, which I see as no different. I really don't want to spend all day playing the latest computer game with my son, but to be able to watch a dvd together and then him do his own thing and me get on with some housework, for us to be able to sit down and have a nice chat at lunchtime without him rushing off to stop other kids nickin his stuff play with the step kids. For us to go for a walk around the shops without having to please 4 other little people too.

Do you know, I don't think it's worth talking to DP anymore. I think he needs to see some action and know that I am not just having a whinge and if he ignores me, eventually I will give up. I think I need to swap some weekends around so DS sees his Dad on "our" weekend. I really don't want to do this though as there are issues with contact with DS Dad anyway, in that contact can be hard to maintain with my ex with him dropping the arrangements when it suits him, so I am really playing into his hands. I can take DS out when we have step kids, but I know that is also going to bring more issues for me to deal with. Apart from moving out, I don't know what else I can do, but I am going to get time with DS alone, I am determined on that one.

I think I shall refer to you as "Self-righteous Cock" and I come to that conclusion having read many of redhen's postings and at times, having given my opinion.

This woman has accepted and tends YOUR 4 children. Presumably, even though you have help domestically, she does a good deal of the day to day donkey work that makes a home tick over. You have some adult time together which you enjoy and with all those kids, you need and deserve .... yet it seems you are craving evermore contact with your kids. I understand this for my own exH sees our son every other weekend only and for me, that seems tragic....he misses so much of our beautiful boy. But, that's his decision.

I think you think because you have a cleaner and you do stuff around the house and bit of homework with you stepson, that redhen should be scratching away in the dusty farmyard there, feeling incredibly lucky (grateful) to have landed such a fine cock. You and she SHOULD put in time and effort to YOUR relationship. It's very, very important.You don't get a medal for taking her out for a nice meal..... you should enjoy those times together, just the two of you. But, I get the impression, you'd make that a table for 6, if you could!

It sounds almost as if you want to recreate ENTIRELY your old family setting....I would even suggest from what I've read in the past that you tolerate your SS in this scenario. It's almost as if bizarrely, you have removed one female and slotted in another, to tend your all-important family. Why didn't you just go for full custody of your kids? Skip the new partner bit and make that cosy family in the same former marital home and MAYBE slot in a new childless partner later who has no other thought other than to be ready and willing to devote herself to the good of your children?

Now, you need to step back and have a good look at this situation. You do homework with your SS? You peel the veggies? Redhen has taken on YOUR FOUR CHILDREN and, sounds to me, they are fast becoming the priority in this household. Your SS is an only child who, it sounds like has adapted well. He can be irritating? Sounds like he has quite a lot to adjust to there without the support of a sibling and just his mum from the family unit he had prior to this mammoth family experience. He NEEDS that time as "the only one" with his mum. She NEEDS it with him. They're not "kids" forever and he or she may resent you, strongly, in the future if you cannot accept and see this for what it is. THEY NEED THEIR RELATIONSHIP AS WAS - THEY'RE NOT THERE JUST TO MORPH INTO YOUR FIVESOME!!!

Cock, (and I say this kindly) wake up, stop crowing and have a real good look at what you have in this fine Hen. You might not get so lucky again.

I don't think theredhen is asking too much at all. FWIW.

So Mr and Mrs Redhen have had a chat.

Basically started with me telling him that I am seriously considering going back to my old house as I am so fed up with it all. Funnily enough, instead of the normal dismissal I seem to get when I try and discuss things, he actually took notice this time.

Told him I am basically fed up of being bottom of the heap, I am fed up doing loads of stuff with his kids, while my own child gets no quality time whatsover. Told him I am fed up with him telling me constantly how he wants his kids all the time, but doesn't have the decency to consult the woman who is left with them for hours on end. Quoted some things from this thread about being sub-sumed and morphing into his family. Said I was sick of not being considered, treated like I don't matter and that DS and I have given up a lot to come here and I am not f*ing Mary Poppins!! Told him I am worried about DS self esteem and confidence and that I have no time or space to work with him on it. My own child is being neglected and I am not having it anymore.

He has said that when he goes off and leaves me with the kids, it is only what he would do if I weren't here. I pointed out that I AM here and he needs to consider me. If anything happened to his children while they are in my care, I am the one who would be in trouble, not his 14 yr old who he seems to think can be in charge when he isn't around.

I have said all I want is for him to consider my needs and those of DS too. Not just what he wants all the time. .

I honestly don't know if he "gets it". He said he has only tried to make me and DS feel included by us all doing things as a "family". When I pointed out that I spend more time with his children on my own than he spends with DS who lives with us, I think it surprised him. I also told him that my ex is being very helpful and I can now have DS on the weekends that we don't have step children here. He didn't like the thought of not getting time alone without children (or is that just my child?!)

I told him I am dreading the summer when he works 15 hr days, 7 days a week and his ex tells him to have the kids for extra time, because I said this is what I expected he would agree too, again, without consulting me. I would still be expected to look after them at the weekends at this time anyway. When I have mentioned it before, he said he would agree to it, he denied this last night, but I can't live in this sort of dread.

I did try to get him to see that if we lived in separate houses, we could still be in a relationship. I even tried to say that he could parent his children more freely without the rules I try to impose (manners, tidiness, respect etc.). Of course, he doesn't see any advantages to living apart because HIS life has just carried on as before, but now with added enhancement.

He has agreed that I need to carve out some time for my DS without his kids, albeit we haven't worked out the details yet, that he should "consider" me when he makes decisions involving the children or our home. I just don't know if I can make him really understand, to be honest. I do love him and I do think in a lot of ways he is really trying. He just can't understand why he just can't carry on as he always has.

He was very quiet last night when he thought I might be moving out, and I'll be honest, because he wasn't actually following me round the house, or hanging over me when I was cooking, I felt as though I had some space. I could go and chat to DS without having to be rude to DP. It is not only his children that are demanding of my limited time, it is him too!

I do wonder if he would have been better off with a woman with a lot of kids of her own. Someone who really loves kids. Although having 7 or 8 kids would be a nightmare in a lot of ways, (transport, cooking, bedrooms) at least both parents would feel "equal". And that is certainly not what I have been feeling.

So, the next step is to discuss making time for me and DS as a family. I think I will swap some weekends around with my ex, I am going to take DS out on my own and I am going to expect DP to take his kids out on their own. I expect the kids will kick against this a bit to be honest, and I have to focus on the right reasons for doing this. Ultimately if something doesn't change, we are going to split up anyway, so we have to try to make it work.

Good for you redhen!

When I bought a house with my dh, I went instantly from being a working mother of 1 with lots of friend and family support to a sah mother of 3, living in a strange town with a dh who wasn't there monday to friday. Everything is and always has been about "his boys" with no thought to how my dd who had previously been an only child was adjusting. I honestly think at times that all he wanted was a surrogate mother for them as it seems that they are the only thing he ever considers!

I hope this works out for you and that he can
change!

Do you ever wish that you hadn't met your dh? I certainly have thought that way at times - life was one hell of a lot easier!

tallpoppies it's like I just wrote that and yes I have often wished that I had never met my DH because tbh the only good thing to come of our relationship is our DD. And even though we have our shared DD, it's still me and my girls against him and his precious boy

Tallpoppies, you sound so sad and so regretful. The love of a man shouldn't mean sacrificing yourself so much should it?

"Do you ever wish that you hadn't met your dh?"

Sometimes I fantasise about meeting a man who accepts my DS as his own, no kids of his own and the opportunity for me to have another child.

Then I think I am just being silly, because I really don't believe I could ever find such a thing. I've dated men without kids who had unrealistic expectations of DS and I've dated (and already married) men with kids, who always seem to want you to give 110% while not giving nearly as much back.

On a positive note, I'm having my day with DS and it's been FANTASTIC. Nothing special done, just me and him, had a lie in, been out for lunch, done some shopping, and no whining, fighting, no having to prepare mountains of food, the washing is still in it's basket, we can both get on the pc without a fight and we've been out getting fresh air too. DS has learnt a couple of new things today too and now we are about to have a few hours on the sofa watching a DVD without a load of noise in the background . Bliss.

Hi redhen
No, I'm not sad or regretful right now - I have been there though many many times! I think in retrospect it was just too much to expect of me at the time. I've kind of been through it all now and come out the other side although not without some major battles and adjustments along the way. I think I just have days where it all gets too much and I remember all the good bits about my life before, in pretty much the same way as you always remember things through rose tinted spectacles!

I don't regret meeting my dh but I do wish that at least some of it could have been a bit easier.
That's the way I am though, I tend to throw myself into something wholeheartedly without enough thought at the beginning and then think "oh shit, this wasn't how it was meant to be!"

I was also overly optimistic about how easy being a step-mum would be at the beginning and thought that I would just automatically come to love his sons as my own. Maybe this will still happen one day, who knows, but it's a much longer and harder road than I anticipated!

I know that the thing that makes it so much harder is dh's attitude at times which is why I found myself empathising with your situation in some of the threads you have posted in. I think sometimes they just take us for granted a bit and forget that we have or had a life outside of them and their kids!

I really envy you your time alone today with ds by the way and think it's definately something you should insist on continuing!
Since meeting dh I have never ever had a day alone with my daughter doing "girlie" things as they are all so close in age (7,7,6). When my daughter goes to her dad's and has one on one time with him I still have the two boys here to look after and sometimes I will admit it sucks!

How long have you been in your relationship? Could you not just take your daughter out and leave the boys with their Dad? Must be easy to think of girly things to do that the boys wouldn't like? I'm probably not the best one to give advice but when I think of your situation , I immediately think "why aren't you having that time with DD? You should be having that time, whatever DP says".

And yes, I think I thought because I had been spending a lot of time with his kids before we moved in and everything seemed fine and happy, that moving in wouldn't make much difference, but I really under-estimated how trapped I would feel. Never really getting a break and that freedom.

I can remember in the early days of being a lone parent feeling very lonely and that just going out with DS didn't seem "enough". I wanted the family life that I thought I saw a lot of people having. After a while, I stopped feeling like that and had some great friends to do things with anyway as well as on my own. Isn't it funny how years later, I am chomping at the bit to get those days back?!

I think that there's a difference in wanting to do family stuff and all be a part of it together and then......marrying Captain Von Trapp and his arm of children. And him away (albeit working hard) such a lot and you being totally responsible for the entire brood.

I think you've done right by this man and his kids. I'm SO glad you're going to spend some precious time with your own boy and do stuff, just the two of you. Like you say, cuddling up on the sofa for a DVD is special if you get peace, just you two, to do it!!

I think you should enjoy this time with him. Don't....DO NOT ..... let anyone make you feel guilty for this. It's so important.