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Step-parenting

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Husband at wits end - how do i help?

39 replies

hellswelshy · 17/01/2011 09:48

Hi, I just wanted to ask if anyone had any wisdom or any similar experiences with this. Me and my husband got together around 6months after he and his ex partner (not married) split up. They lived up North together with their 1yr old daughter and after the split returned to his hometown in Wales. We met during the months that followed the split, during which his ex wanted him back. He declined, and stayed with me. We have now been married for 4 years and have two children of our own.
She has always made things difficult for him, particuarly moneywise, as she is a spendthrift, frequently getting into debt then demanding more money from him. Payments were organised via csa from the start. My husband has always paid his way.

She has now married and moved even further North, and has another child. She didnt discuss or negotiate move with my husband, so now he has an even bigger journey than before to see his daughter. Apart from this his money via csa has been increased, as he has had a recent pay rise, and they have refused to help him with travel costs.

He is now in a situation that he is struggling to see how he can afford to visit his daughter on a regular basis, if his maintenance has increased and he has to pay the travel costs himself. We have a mortgage and we both work hard to get by for our children. HIs ex doesnt work, (she has decided to go back to college...)and i amm just so amazed at the lack of empathy she has for him. She would honestly not care if he never saw his daughter again, as long has she had the money in her pocket every month.

I am struggling with the situation, as even though its been tough over the years, and we have always had to deal with her demands and tantrums, we have always made it work for his daughters sake. Now he is lower than ive ever seen him and wants to 'give up' as he cant see a solution. He is exhausted by it all, and it hurts like mad as he is the kindest, loving man ive ever met and he adores his daughter. I dont know what to do for the best, am i causing more pain by encouraging him to fight on to see her? It becomes such an issue at times and affects us as a family but i hate to see him so upset. All he wants to do is see her as often as possible, but with the huge distance now plus travelling costs, i dont know what will happen. He is afraid of growing apart from her.
Any advice would be greatfully accepted, as i dont have any friends who have step children or are in this kind of situation. Thanks.

OP posts:
elephantjelly · 19/01/2011 21:12

There is moving out of the house away from your ex and there is moving across the country away from a baby. He did move away from his baby. Why expect the mum to stay put for his sake?

Yes, relationships break down for many reasons. Everyone has made their choice and now you expect a mother to not live her life for the sake of an ex who moved first. I don't think that would mean your family get to dictate what direction of the country the woman has to live in for the next 16 years. You all broke up, you don't seem to like her or have much respect for her plight. She may have had an affair but sounds like she got left to bring up baby by herself and money is no substitute for being round the corner as you now know.

If he wants to see his daughter then his has to pay the fare.

Greeninkmama · 19/01/2011 21:45

Don't rise to it Hellswelshy!

I think the best thing you can do is to help your partner sort out the practicalities as best you can. To work out the costs and how you often he can travel to see his daughter, and how much of the holidays you can have her with you.

He has to hang in there, because he can't not as a loving dad. But you also need to help him face the facts - he might need you to spell out to him that it is simply not possible for him to travel halfway across the country every fortnight for example. Everyone's needs have to be taken into account - by everyone I mean everyone in your family: DH, DSD, you and your DCs.

It honestly does get easier as the child gets older - because they do have more of a say in what goes on. My DSS is 12 and now has his own mobile, so he and DH can speak whenever they want to, without having to go through the ExW.

elephantjelly · 19/01/2011 22:37

Why is it rising to it? I'm not trying to be inflammatory but rather include differing view points. I'm not saying it is not a sad state for the father to be in but it seems less than reasonable to suggest a family stay somewhere because ex can't afford the train fare? Especially if there is bad feeling.

hellswelshy · 20/01/2011 10:13

As previously stated, I havent once said his ex should have stayed for his sake. I do think she could have discussed it with him properly however, and actually i think you will find legally she should have asked for his consent to move her away that far. That aside, i havent once said i think she should have stayed for his sake. My point has been throughout, if you read my previous posts, that my husband simply cannot afford maintenance and travel costs of this amount - the distance has doubled to what it was previously. He has always paid for travel to the old address, and never once minded as he could then afford that.
I think you are missing my point - i am not trying to get into a discussion about who should live where, and i dont for one minute think my husband should have the final say where she lives - i am not sure why elephantjelly is trying to make this the point of the thread, because it isnt and i dont. My main concern is my husband - he cant afford to see his daughter as much and i wanted advice on how to support him through this. End of. As far his ex is concerned and me not liking her...i dont know her. I only know how she has treated my husband, and know that if the situation was reversed, i would never use my children as some sort of power game.

It is interesting to include differing view points as you have tried to do, but i dont really need that as i have not said his ex shouldnt have moved. My problems lie with finances, supporting my loved one, and seeing a solution to this situation. Thanks anyway.

OP posts:
FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop · 20/01/2011 10:17

Why complain about the extra distance when your DH is the one who moved back to Wales in the first place?

FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop · 20/01/2011 10:19

Ok x-post... I do empathise but I think you just have to put up with it and make the best of a bad situation.

catsmother · 20/01/2011 11:18

I apologise if I'm repeating myself, or, if I say anything which isn't directly relevant to Hells' situation. However, I would like to say that what a number of people seem to be forgetting in situations like these is that the most important thing is for children of separated parents to maintain a relationship with them both (apart from genuine exceptions such as violence, drug use etc).

It is NOT about who moved first, who moved where, who was responsible for the marital breakdown and so on ... it's about trying to keep a vitally important relationship going .... and that should supercede the gripes the parents have in respect of each other.

I've seen this from both sides. I was also a single parent for 9 years until I moved in with my DP, and my ex also moved about 60 miles away when we split up. I don't believe this was done out of spite, or in order to shirk his parental duties though obviously, him living a distance away did mean that it wasn't as easy for me to ask him to care for our son when either he or I were ill, and contact did become a weekend and/or school holiday thing as weekday evenings were out. Believe me, I had a LOT of reasons to be very angry with my ex, but above and beyond that, I wanted to minimise the effect of our split on our son as much as possible - regardless of who was right or wrong. That meant encouraging the relationship between him and his dad and, to that end, I used to meet my ex at a halfway point to hand over our son for contact because the alternative, if my ex had had to travel all the way to my doorstep, would have meant my son walking back to the station with his dad in all weathers, hanging about on cold railway platforms waiting for connections, and getting back to my ex's much later than his bedtime. I didn't like to think of him in that position so I used to drive ..... did I like doing that ? No - of course I didn't, I could have done without 2 hours (plus 2 hours on the return leg) being taken out of my precious child free time but it was the best thing to do for my child .... it wasn't about what was best for me, or for my ex. Obviously, I did do my ex a "favour" in as much as I saved him travel time but in fairness, he was very grateful and used to give me money to cover my petrol. Therefore, I wasn't out of pocket, my ex saved time, and our son wasn't out late - wins all round IMO.

So many people can't see past their own bitterness when it comes to contact. When the absent parent complains about the time, money, upset & stress consumed by a difficult contact situation, a common response from a selfish ex is "not my problem" or even "good, I'm glad you're suffering, you deserve it". That attitude is so bloody selfish and it's also highly irresponsible because it shows no regard whatsoever for the child. They are the ones who suffer most when contact is obstructed, or when no help is offered (be it financial or practical) towards the logistics of maintaining contact. What is more important ? ...... scoring points off an ex you despise, or putting your child's feelings before your own ?

Okay ... it's not ideal, but I accept people want to move for all sorts of reasons. If you have children and are separated from their father, you have a moral obligation to factor that in to your move. You need to ask how contact will be maintained and think about what you may need to do to ensure your children don't miss out. Ideally yes, you should discuss moving with your ex, so they are prewarned and so they can also give some thought to the new circumstances. People may need to adjust their working hours for example, or change the pattern of contact so it's less frequent but as long at a different time - e.g. in the school holidays - so long journeys are minimised. But it's NOT acceptable - morally - to simply sit back and say "tough, you want them, you come and get them". It's NOT acceptable to say your ex "has" to pay the fare. For some people, they simply DON'T have that money ... so they must either go into debt (and many absent dads do do this, but there comes a point where you simply can't take on any more debt), or forego seeing their children.

Too many women have children without thinking how things might be if the relationship doesn't work out. If it breaks down, the man with whom they were once more than happy to have a child(ren) suddenly becomes (in their eyes) irrelevant as a parent. Morally, you just can't (or shouldn't) do that .... he may well have turned out to be a crap partner, but, (except in extreme circumstances where children might be in danger), why does he suddenly become a crap father too just because you don't like him any more ? You shouldn't just be able to airbrush a man out of his kids' lives and that is, in effect, what you do if you move a distance away but refuse to co-operate with the logistics of continuing contact and place ALL the onus on him. In some individual circumstances, it genuinely isn't possible for decent (or even semi-decent) contact to continue unless BOTH parents help to make it happen. If one refuses to do this, you end up not only with a distraught, frustrated and (often) depressed absent parent but even more importantly, a child (or children) who lose out on something which can't ever be replaced. Many women are more than happy to tell these children that their father doesn't see them because he "can't be bothered" (omitting of course the fact that they refuse to help facilitate this in any way) .... can you imagine the self esteem of a child who grows up believing that ? Even if they're not told that directly, lack of contact is likely to have them reach that conclusion anyway ..... and it's doubtful that a parent who refuses to help with contact would explain why daddy is unable to see them.

Unless you've been in this situation you have no idea how damaging it is. The effects can be significant and long lasting. And all born out of spite ..... heaven forbid that an embittered woman do her ex a "favour". Far far better that she tells him where to go which is quite clearly far more imoportant than the long term emotional well being of her children, who of course won't be missing their dad one little bit.

WildistheWind · 20/01/2011 11:26

Cats- what a great post. Says it all really.

steepedinalcohol · 20/01/2011 13:02

The reason I brought it up was because I thought you were saying you were struggling with the whole thing, not just the cost of travel. I always found that if I could at least understand dsd's mum's viewpoint it helped. I didn't necessarily have to agree with it, or how she behaved because of it, but it helped explain why she was being like she was. And then we could work around that rather than confronting it head on, which wasn't going to get us anywhere.

I do agree with lots of what you are saying Cats, but I think the fact remains that it was him who put the distance there in the first place, not her, and right or wrong maybe she does believe that she shouldn't have to consider what moving would do to their relationship be that financial or otherwise, because she feels he should have thought of that when he moved to Wales.

And if that is the case, that is really hard for Hells because she is now dealing with the fall-out of something that happened in the past but is affecting her in a big way. Not easy.

The only practical things I can suggest Hells is getting the CSA to allow for the travelling costs, and maybe look at how economical your car is and possibly change it. What about having her for longer periods in the school holidays instead of so many weekends? That worked really well for us, we didn't ask for it, it just seemed to happen as dsd got older and started wanting to do things with her school friends at weekends. And in a way it was much better contact than the weekends because she had time to really settle in and there was no sense of making the most of every minute because it wasn't going to last long.

houseproject · 21/01/2011 14:34

Cats,

Fab post - think this should be a 'sticky' post...really does show the debate from both sides.

My ex moved and I did whatever I could to facilate contact..Why? because it absolutely was in the best interests of my daughter. I can't see why I wouldn't priortise contact yet support her in other hobbies or events where I incur extra costs or have to travel when I would rather not. Surely all mums feel like a taxi service for their children, especially teens? The only reason why I might not faciliate contact was if there were genuine reasona (illness etc) or if I was feeling bitter towards my ex. (I did have loads of reasons to be bitter and angry!)

There is legal redress as Courts do support children seeing both parents and will prepare an order so that travelling is shared. It is recognised that it is not in the best interests of the child if the NRP has to travel excessive amounts. There are legimate H&S concerns and the quality fo contact is affected so a resolution will be sought. I would suggest that the OP goes ahead with this but first requests in writing the ex to attend mediation to discuss the contact challenges. A solution may be found at this stage ..if not please don't be afraid to use court. It is there for the child's right to see both parents. If when the child is older they ask why you didn't seek solutions you can at least be confident that you tried all avenues.
In Australia guidance is issued about moving so the issue for the child has been recognised. I guess it will get on the agenda at some stage in the UK.

catsmother · 21/01/2011 15:03

I hope so HP .... it's long overdue.

In our contact case, part of my partner's application was regarding the excessive travel he had to do in order to see his kids (when contact wasn't being obstructed). As you say, this can potentially have health & safety implications if one parent must drive several hours - in all weathers - and often late at night after a full working week, & then again within a short period of time on the return leg. My partner tried - and failed - to impress this point upon his ex for many years, only to be told that if he was so concerned he should either a) move closer (impossible due to job), or b) take a day off on Friday so he was refreshed before setting off and Monday off too so he could recover ! Like he had limitless annual leave ! Unfortunately, the magistrates who heard his case also failed to grasp the injustice of the situation, and, following his ex's plea that the children's lifestyle would "suffer" if she had to spend any money at all on petrol (despite admitting she had a disposable income of more than a £1000 a month (words fail me)) was finally ordered to meet him halfway just one contact weekend in four. So, we still pay 87.5% of all the costs involved - i.e. 3 contact visits, plus half the costs on the 4th. In theory, the courts are "there" but in our experience, and that of the majority of other contact cases I hear/read about, they are still very biased towards the parent with care - though there have been some encouraging reports where women who alienate, obstruct and refuse to co-operate are given short shrift. Problem is, afterwards, - there seems to be so little effective deterrent/punishment for those who break orders .... in theory (I think) there's now fines and/or community service but this is rarely imposed.

Greeninkmama · 21/01/2011 16:09

This is quite depressing really. The fact is that lots of parents would prefer to weaken their DCs' relationship with the ex, and don't recognise that their DCs need both parents.

I hate this 'if you loved your kids, you'd do xxx for them' because it really isn't that simple, as these posts have shown. You can't totally arrange your life around that of an ex-P - and you can't always live in the same place as your DCs (ideal though that is).

If you are unlucky enough to have an obstructive ex, there isn't a lot you can do to change that - except be as steady and reliable as you can and hope that the DC can still feel how much you love them. I also think you need to get very clear about your boundaries - otherwise your life is controlled by the resident parent.

In the end, you just have to hang on in there as best you can until the child gets older and has more say in what goes on.

WildistheWind · 21/01/2011 16:30

It is depressing -

We were in mediation last year in regards to DBDs and DH's Ex said openly that it would just be easier if the father disappeared so that she didn't have to bother with him and could 'move' on.

Hmm

I was there and so was her partner ( she has 2 boys with him )- he wasn't impressed!

hellswelshy · 23/01/2011 10:17

Thanks for all your posts, some really interesting and thought provoking points made. I just have the feeling that she is trying to rewrite history for his daughter, and make her step father her new dad, and therefore maintaining contact with my husband is an inconvenience. Whether this is because she believes her daughter will be more stable and less unsettled with a 'normal' family at home, or other motive i dont know. I suppose everybody wants the norm, and would rather not have to have contact with an ex partner ( i know that must be hard) but surely the fact is that he is her biological father, and he loves her very much - she cannot deny that.

Court point is a good one, though i cant imagine my husband wanting to do that as he got stung badly when he involved solicitors at the beginning to sort finances etc. It ended up costing alot and didnt achieve much as she wouldnt respond to letters and generally just didnt co-operate. I just cant bear to see him being emotionally battered again, i thought we were at some sort of tense agreement with his ex and now it seems to have raked things up. If money were not an issue for us, i suspect it wouldnt even come up as i know my husband would just pay the travel costs to see his daughter whether it was fair or not - but money is an issue and thats what it comes down to unfortunately.

Urrgh, sorry to be so bleak, just a bad patch i hope and maybe we will resolve it, its early days, its only been a couple of months since the move. Maybe (fingers crossed) we will be happy wiht longer visits rather than more frequent ones...

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