Minister for Children and Families, Olivia Bailey wants to hear from you

[CeriMumsnet]

The government is currently developing new guidance on screen time for children aged 0–5 - and I want it to be genuinely useful for families, not a list of rules that feel out of touch with everyday life and the juggle that is being a parent!

So if you're the parent of a child aged 0–5, or you've recently been through those early years, we'd love to know: what would actually help you? Maybe you've found ways to make screen time work positively in your family, or you've had moments of doubt about whether you're getting the balance right. Perhaps there's something you wish someone had told you earlier - or advice you've been given that felt more judgmental than helpful.

Whatever your experience, I want parents to help shape this guidance so it reflects how families really live - and gives you something practical you can actually use.

The guidance, once published, will be available on the government's Best Start in Life website, which brings together trusted support for parents at every stage of the early years.

Not intended to target anyone in particular, and goodness knows in many ways we don’t need another stick to beat mothers (and fathers, but if we’re honest mainly mothers) with, but I find it interesting how many people think the guidelines should avoid inducing guilt. We don’t shape other public health messaging around ‘what is currently done’ - e.g we have weekly recommended alcohol consumption limits that many adults regularly exceed, or exercise minimums that people aren’t meeting, people are still smoking, 5 portions of fruit and veg remains aspirational for many, but nobody is out there suggesting these messages should be changed so people can feel less guilty?

(And I get that I am writing this from the perspective of someone with a little one who is small enough that we’ve barely begun to be challenged on building healthy screen(free) habits, but if we don’t keep to our aspirations it will be on me to manage that guilt and not on the guidelines to change).

Given too much screen time is associated with actual physical changes in children’s brains, clear guidance that centers harm prevention (i.e. suggested screen time limits for different ages) and only then builds additional scaffolding on harm reduction (the kind of content, type of device, better or worse times of day to watch, etc) seems essential. I also strongly agree it makes sense for guidance to mirror existing suggestions on limits from HPSS and the WHO to avoid confusion as suggested by another poster.

And that’s also where the focus on screen use in early years education settings is naturally emerging, because (like the shortage of safe and free play and green spaces) it’s a systemic context in which individual parents are finding it harder and harder to ‘do the better thing’…

The guilt is a conflict between a growing public awareness that this is a potentially unhelpful or harmful thing, and that it is replacing time that could be spent playing, talking, moving, with quite possibly an ongoing developmental cost to children, and the heavy pressure that many parents are tired, stressed and need to use screens for the family to manage.

Stressing parents further certainly won't help. And guidelines that come in isolation rather than addressing the root issues and pressures that parents deal with, also won't help.

Agree with all of this so much!

Also, people who are stressed and then guilted are likely to just disengage altogether, so harm reduction is best here.

Telling a frazzled single parent living in temporary accommodation in a run down area where people deal drugs in the only local park that she should feel guilty for letting her toddler watch anything on a screen would just be cruel in my opinion.

We want realistic, positive guidelines that will actually empower all families.

Olivia Bailey? The same Olivia Bailey who invited Mridul Wadhwa to a small round table event she hosted - knowing he's a man who lied about his sex, does not hold a GRC, headed up a rape crisis service and told women who didn't want to be seen by a man after being raped or assaulted to "reframe their trauma " and called them bigots, refused to guarantee survivors same sex care, and orchestrated a witch hunt against an employee who rightly said that women had the right to know the sex of their rape crisis counsellor?

I don't think Olivia does want to hear from me.

All screens are not equal.

TV is different to games and to the internet.

There's a number of issues with this.

A lot of games etc - even designed for toddlers - rely on the idea of dopamine hits and gamification. Some are actively designed to be addictive. Later on you get issues with instant gratification and a lack of slow release reward - so picking games for children generally should follow this logic. Is it quick or do you have to build something slowly and have patience? If you train your kid to always be rewarded instantly it comes out in behaviour elsewhere.

Screens are used for discipline and rewards - again it's about thinking carefully about how you phrase this - if your default is to let them play and then remove on poor behaviour, they learn they should always have it. If it's a reward for otherwise good behaviour it's more positive.

TV definitely has it's place in the sense that it's usually slower placed and can be more informative. It doesn't disconnect the child from their surroundings either. A screen with headphones is the worst because they are isolated from their surroundings. It might make it less annoying to adults but it disconnects the child too.

Where you use screens matters too. If for example you use it when you eat out then you are missing an opportunity to engage. Screens should never be around family time - like meals. Kids need to learn to behave in certain settings rather than parents using screens as a child management too because they want an easier life. Adults need to put in the hard work in these situations. You also should lead by example and have set times when adults don't use screens.

The emphasis here is on screens - but actually we should also talk about the reverse. What are parents sacrificing and replacing with screens? Is this quality one to one time? Is it family time? Are screens being used by kids in pushchairs rather than interacting and observing the world around them? Giving thought to this rather than saying screens themselves are bad is part of the problem. What is good and aids a toddler? What do they miss out on if they are on a screen. Rather than pushing an anti-screen message it's also needs to be matched with a pro something else time. One that's realistic with working parents rather than aspirational.

One of the issues I noticed was parents giving their small child their own phone. The trouble with an adults phone is set up for an adult - thus a child watching something on an adults YouTube isn't necessarily safeguarded because the parent hasn't set up the phone for this. Parents seem to forget this.

Agree - safeguarding is very important in terms of children and also screen time / internet access for children and these actions suggest a lack of awareness or understanding of safeguarding.

There's a real failure of strategic response here. Schools are pissing money away on apps that force unconsenting parents onto their phones more (so not modelling good behaviour) onto apps they hate and don't want to use. And then you have to phone the school office because it doesn't work and so it takes as much staff time as if you just contacted them in person in the first place except lots more stress, hassle and screen time for all the adults involved.

People don't magically become immune to the negative impacts of screens when they reach 18. Most of us didn't get any education about what healthy boundaries were and there are countless profiteering businesses forcing us the digital route with their only concern being how much money they can squeeze out of us. It's difficult to tell a child to spend less time on their screen when you're having to use it yourself all the time and they call you out and you say 'I have to do this or you won't be getting school lunches / consent for the trip / I can't pay bills / I can't update my driving license / passport / I can't login to work etc' and then they logically point out that they're going to have to do all that digitally when they're older so why are you stopping them learning that skill now?

If you want healthy boundaries for children, you need healthy boundaries for adults too, but there's profit to be made so no interest in the impact on parental mental health at all.

I hate my smartphone and would happily chuck it in the bin and go back to a phone that did just phone and text but it's impossible to navigate life these days without. You can't address the impact on children without addressing the very negative impacts on adults and in particular their parents too. Part of the reason parents need screen time for kids is that they have a million apps to do anything these days and are stuck in the 7th chatbot circle of hell all the time, time they could and would rather be spending with their child.

I raised this with my child's school and now they've gone back to emails as the only way they communicate with parents - everyone thinks it's better. It's less confusing, it's easier. It's harder to miss something important too. Edited to add: and phone calls for the urgent stuff, obviously.

Schools should absolutely not be introducing screens too early.

And then there's AI. This study suggests it's bad for developing brains.
Your Brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of Cognitive Debt when Using an AI Assistant for Essay Writing Task — MIT Media Lab

Problem is politicians aren't really interested in children, and what's best for them, as far as I can tell. It's all about profit.

The point around schools forcing parents into more screen use, i.e. not role modelling good, accessible inclusive practice is spot on. I'm not anti technology (ironically, I work in IT myself) but our local council, Scottish Borders Council, force my family to engage on the following platforms, and more, just to administer a single child in a single school:

Showbie
ParentPay
ParentPortal
Expressions
Facebook (official one, run by school)
Optional - official Parent Council WhatsApp group
Plus email

It's IT procurement gone mad. And this is the same council that gave my daughter a dedicated iPad with AI features enabled without even telling me at age 5!

Don't get me started on the shitty gamification apps they've signed the kids up to - again, poorly designed, behavioural insights driven apps that aren't designed to supplement the teachers or support them, they've entered into £££s contracts DESPITE teacher concerns and, now, concerns by parents.

The problem here isn't screen use at home.

The problem is our education leadership team has invited the vampire technology companies into the classroom and signed away access to their data without even informing parents, nevermind asking for consent. I'm only just learning that this isn't a local problem with our individual council - there's a common theme cropping up across the country.

Investigating THAT (selling our kids data, lack of parental consent) is the real topic that should be in focus here. Not asking about parents and screen time.

Until councils stop undermining parents and teachers by pushing what the large ed technology contracts are pushing, parents have no real control of what's happening with their kids.

My daughter's school sent home guidance on phones this week which made me look up what the government is actually consulting on here. I hadn't realised it's more than just a social media ban. There's stuff about banning infinite scroll and autoplay for under-16s, raising the age of consent from 13, and making phone bans in schools statutory.

Looks like Parliament already voted down a blanket ban last week (307-173) but this consultation is what sets the actual rules. Closes May 26th.

Plain English version and some interesting discussion here, I've put in my rating: https://www.govrated.com/consultation/92dc25b9-1b9c-46fb-8811-47d6948b8b2e

I think the guidance needs to be more specific. Is watching CBeebies for an hour after school the same as playing on a PlayStation or iPad? Does it matter if they're watching Miss Rachel or playing an education game. Surely not all screen time is the same.

I'm quite happy to let my young DC watch tv after school to decompress but we don't give them a tablet over dinner or in the car and haven't introduced games. That's just based on my own judgment and not any clear guidance that seems to he readily available.

Differentiating between “enriching” screen time (slow paced programming, educational programmes like documentaries, number blocks, Minecraft, etc) and “disruptive” screen time (YouTube shorts, short attention span apps like Roblox, programmes that are too frantic and fast paced).

I would love to see the government police content more on behalf of parents. So that it isn’t there for children to pick in the first place. It’s all v well saying parents should monitor what their kids are watching but it’s just another stress / argument ontop of a parent who is already overstretched. And then if they can’t meet that monitoring it’s the child who suffers in the long run.

would also like to see more government funded “in person” activities to replace the need to screen time in the first place. We spent some of our children’s early years in Canada where they still run the SureStart program. This was invaluable to me as a new mum as it meant I could get out of the house most mornings to a free event where my child and I could both socialise. It was easy to walk to and easy to find out what days it was on. There was a ton of support offered as well (it was where I first realised my child might not be neurotypical).

also banning screens in nurseries and infant school. I have no idea why they are being used in the classroom.

I also agree with the poster above who cites the excessive use of apps and screen use that comes with having a child in school. Across 3 children I’m using:

MYCAS
Google classrooms
The schools own website (my children have to sign in to a portal to do homework)
TTRS (for maths homework)
3 x class WhatsApp groups
ParentMail
Emails averaging around 4 per day across my 3 children

there is no other option than for me to use the above to deal with the admin that comes with having the kids in school. This results in my children seeing me on my phone more regularly when trying to sort out the admin. I’m also constantly reaching for a screen to check something ie what day they have a school trip or what homework they need to do.

the school related screen use I’m most upset about it the need for my children to use screens to complete the vast majority of their homework. It meant we had to buy them an iPad as they were too young /
hadn’t been taught yet to independently navigate a laptop, plus I didn’t want them on my laptop which has all my work etc on it. Every time they need to do homework I have to help them log in, deal with IT issues surrounding it, keep them focused on the homework and not be derailed into games or other videos. When they do their maths homework they often mistakenly tap the wrong answer and can’t change the answer to correct it because they can’t go “back” on the app. Which causes upset and means the teacher isn’t accurately seeing their knowledge.

The worst was when my children”s infant school tried to put all their reading online, so instead of being sent home with physical books they were meant to login to a reading portal thing. At this point I refused to engage and bought them their own physical reading books instead. Happily many of the other parents did too and the online reading was scrapped after a few months. But if there are other infant schools in the country who are still doing all the early years reading online then I think this is appalling and should be banned by the government. Our infant school tried it because it was much cheaper than providing physical books, so clearly this is a funding issue that needs to be adddessed

The thing is, people discussing this on mumsnet are already considering screen use, researching it, engaging with guidance, etc.

One of the hardest things I found was peer pressure / culture once my child started nursery and then school. It’s not the parents who worry whether an hour of CBeebies is too much who really need government guidance, it’s the parents who don’t give a second thought to handing their own, unlocked, phone to a child sitting in a buggy so they can watch PinkFong on YouTube. What is the plan to make sure the guidance reaches them in a way they can engage with and implement in their own situations?

childhood vaccinations are very well researched, free on the NHS, you get reminders from your surgery and health visitors mention them (in the 5 minutes once a year you see them). And yet we know vaccination rates are dropping and continue to drop. Loads of kids don’t get “5 a day” or anything like it. (Even the nice middle class mumsnet mummies don’t get their kids through the National Trust’s 25 things to before you’re 8 1/4 or whatever.) So once you’ve written the guidance, what then?

What is the plan to make sure the guidance reaches them in a way they can engage with and implement in their own situations

This is a really powerful point. The fact that I'm so concerned about the council's obsession with sharing my children's data with poor quality, subscription based "education" apps that I have never been informed or asked to consent to .. parents like us on this thread aren't the families most at risk. The real concern here is the many many more families that have been pushed into constant screen use (parent and children alike) by an education system chronically underfunded and yet seemingly in the grip of bigger technology interests.

I asked around about how our local authority used to operate to try and understand how schools are going down this path, and last night, I have just heard from a parent in the Borders who's mentioned the head teachers being put up in a fancy hotel for away days to learn about iPads and Apple tech, and they're reportedly using completion of Apple training courses to tick off tech CPD requirements. And teachers I've spoken to personally about this can't speak out. They're under huge pressure professionally to adopt more screen based methods and don't have physical books or print budgets!

How the hell is a mere parent going to fight against all that?

Luckily for us, our child has a parent who works in IT and has pushed back on the commercial interests consuming our education model locally.

What about all the other families???

They need help, not more guidance and guilt trips from government as if they're the ones at fault from an education system in crisis.

I would echo the concerns around Ed Tech. These for profit companies are pushing screens to be used more and more with young children with no data to support how they can be used safely and effectively. As the parent of a soon to be new starter at primary, I am already concerned about the use of screens that I saw on school tours.

I toured a school nursery classroom where the entire class including multiple teachers was sat on a rug facing a large interactive board playing some sort of YouTube video. I think the video was meant to be “educational” because it was about numbers or something, but as someone with a career in child development I was very concerned. 3 year olds don’t need to memorise songs about numbers, they need to interact and speak with others in functional situations. What happened to sitting round in a circle with your friends and teachers to sing songs?! Much better for the development of functional communication and interaction skills, attention, and executive functioning. These technologies are being used inappropriately by staff who seem to have minimal training on what children actually need to learn. Children learn best using real world objects — toys, books, paper, crayons!

This is a good point. But I'm afraid I'm at the point where I believe politicians doing this sort of thing is mostly blame avoidance and avoidance of accountability. They COULD prevent all this proliferation of Ed Tech in schools, the multiple apps, the profiteering. They COULD fund forest school more, adequate classroom provision, better TA pay and CPD. Less admin for teachers and more meaningful time in classrooms. More 1 to 1 time, more school trips in the real world etc. They COULD make SM companies legally responsible for harm from their platform to children. But there's money to be made and money and the 1% counts more than children's wellbeing and safety.

'Well we told the stupid mummies how they had to bend themselves in pretzels and destroy their parent-child relationships to stop their children being harmed by the rapacious Ed Tech in schools, and wider technology imposition by the 1% on the rest, so it's all their fault' etc

What I will say is that the actual people in schools - teachers, TAs, office staff - still genuinely do care about the children. As evidenced by my child's school reducing the apps and returning to one channel of communication with parents. But I do think they're under huge pressure to use dwindling school budgets on profiteering IT 'solutions'. I don't think there's any good evidence these 'solutions' deliver, and don't do harm (in terms of efficiency, outcomes, parent or child wellbeing), either.

Frankly I think everything in schools should be not for profit resources. People should not be making money off children, and their data, especially not with the current state of school finances.

This is all spot on too. God it's depressing. Yet the consultation is all about what parents can do at home. Why don't we start in the schools? If parents are being told by schools to read on screen in early years (I am so, so depressed by this - thank goodness the parents pushed back) then of course parents will think this is OK for child 2 or 3.

So Olivia has asked we'd love to know: what would actually help you? - get Ed Tech out of schools. Invest more in real people delivering real teaching. Don't allow profiteering companies in schools AT ALL.

And consider the impact of school apps that people do not want to use and do not consent to on parental wellbeing and screen time.

That's the overwhelming message from this thread.

Will anything be done to curb what's happening in our schools though? It's far easier to tell parents they're not striking the right balance and they're the ones who can control what's happening.

Will anyone involved in this official thread come back and address the overwhelming theme that's coming through loud and clear about the hypocrisy of EdTech having its claws in children's data and screen time?

I'm betting this feedback will be speaking into a void.

Yep. Stop blaming the kids for what is a societal problem, and stop schools pushing tech.

Tech budgets arent dwindling.

Schools may be collapsing around them, books cant be bought and teachers are cut and cut, but money, lots of it, is found for tech.

I'd love to get a Mumsnet comment on all this.

Agree with the points re EdTech in schools and this being a place where DfE have more power to make significant changes. Who decided Sparks Reader is a good idea?!

100% agree this.

I would like to know, how to strike a balance between acknowledging the technological advancements and teaching our young children an appropriate way to navigate this, whilst simultaneously equipping them with the relevant skills that will be needed in the future? I’d also like to raise how schools are increasingly becoming dependent on access to apps, whilst parents are simultaneously being told this is to be discouraged for development of young minds. There seems to be an apparent contradiction. I would welcome evidence based research funded by the government, that then is disseminated to parents at an early stage. But this also needs to coincide with EYFS curriculum and framework. I would also raise how Primary schools in general, seem to have a continued reliance on tablets etc for reading schemes and literacy, due to a lack of funding and resources for books . If their reading and homework needs to be on an app then surely the message is contradictory? This then leads on to a concern about the widening gap between rich and poor in society and fundamentally a concern for how those who are financially stretched can adequately access technology and resources within the home.

All of this. Children (and parents) are essentially expected to be tech/device literate (and to have access to devices) in order to access the curriculum. Then are bashed over the head with messages that they are failing and bad parents when they use the devices/screens. Inculcating a gnawing sense of perennial failure and adding to stress.

Re education tech. DH works in the field. He and several friends have found issues with a couple in terms of safeguarding and data sharing - they have significant security holes which they have found and compared notes on and discussed their frustrations about. These are bugs that are easy to find and should not be happening. All of these have been reported but with little response from companies. The ICO were contacted with one flaw due to it's nature. School frankly have not got a clue what he's tried to tell them about this tech - this in itself isn't good. DH doesn't want to use some of these websites/apps anymore but school is so reliant on this tech because of budget considerations we don't have much of a choice. It should not be like this. We are hostage to it.

It is alarming. Companies dealing with education tech need to do better and have great safeguards and there be better ways to deal with issues in a transparent way so parents know what is going on.