Shared Parental Leave and Parental Leave – what do you think and know? Chance to win £100! NOW CLOSED

[AnnMumsnet]

As part of the Mumsnet Family Friendly Programme we'd love to know what you think about these new employee benefits which have been introduced in the last few years.

You can read about them below - please share on this thread your experience of them and your thoughts on them. Have you taken them up? Do you think you would? Have you heard of Parental Leave? How do you think employers feel about them? Has your employer promoted them to you/ employees? Has your partners company promoted them?

All comments welcome!

Shared Parental Leave - this is for new parents and is designed to give greater flexibility around the first year with a new baby
Government info here
ACAS guide here

Parental Leave - this is unpaid leave for parents to take care of a child's welfare - employees are entitled to 18 weeks’ leave for each child and adopted child, up to their 18th birthday with their job protected
Government info here
ACAS guide here

Both are obviously subject to specific terms.

Add your view and you'll be entered into a prize draw where one MNer will win a £100 voucher for the store of their choice.

Click here to learn more about companies who are working to make the UK a more family friendly place

Thanks and good luck
MNHQ

Standard Insight T&C apply

[DorotheaHomeAlone]

I'm due in three weeks and will be taking shared parental leave with my husband. I'll take 10 months total and he will also be at home for the first 9 weeks to help me recover from an elcs and care for the new baby and our 20m old dd. We can afford to do this because his (large multinational firm) are matching their shared parental leave offering to their existing enhanced maternity pay so he'll be fully paid. I'm really excited about it and feel like it will have a huge benefit for all four of us.

It is pretty confusing trying to work out how it all fits together between the two employers but I'm hoping we've got it right.

Unpaid parental leave is also great for us and I've used it a couple of times in the last year to cover absences when my daughter is sick. My husband tends to rely on annual leave for this though as his salary is higher so the sacrifice of a day's pay is more problematic. He does still take the time off though as we agree the burden of care for our kids should not fall solely on me or my employer. If money was tighter it he had a less generous leave allowance this would be more difficult.

[FeelingSmurfy]

I like the idea of both, the only issue I can see is people without kids claiming it's unfair (same as smokers/none smokers argument)

Nice to see it includes adopted kids

[crayfish]

What irks me is that articles and reports on SPL all seem to suggest/imply that parents can only be off 'one at a time'. I am currently on SPL and my husband and I were both off together for the first three months of our son's life. Most people I have told about this say 'oh I didn't know you could be off together, I would have loved that!'. The system can be very complex in terms of administration and employers need to be more on the ball about what SPL is and how it can be used, but there is also no excuse for parents not making themselves aware of their rights. The government website isn't very easy to follow but the information is all there. Similarly people have said to me 'I would have loved to do SPL but my employer wouldn't allow it'. SPL is the law, yes there are eligibility requirements but they are all clearly available online and if your employer is unsupportive of SPL then approach your Union.

We did get criticism from family and friends which was both surprising and disappointing. What always makes me smile is when women say to me 'I've done the pregnancy and labour so I'm not sharing the leave with anyone!'. I 100% concur that part of the need for leave is for the mother to recover from labour and birth, but clearly single-handedly looking after a newborn isn't the most recuperative thing you can do. In my case I had my husband on hand to support me while I recovered and I was able to establish feeding etc without the pressure to do so within the first two weeks.

For us, SPL and having that time together as a family was the single best thing we have done since having our son. As a new mother, the support of my husband 24/7 was invaluable, we shared care of our son completely and as such my husband is more confident and capable as a parent than he may otherwise have been. We also had a lovely time together and bonded as a family, which is hugely important when you don't have family of your own on the scene, which I don't. More should be done to support fathers to take SPL, it benefits both them and their partners and I think has a hugely positive impact on the family unit as a whole. There is also a lot of research from Scandinavia to suggest that the positive impact is much more long-lasting than most people would imagine.

[Ntinyn]

I've heard of both and think they're a great idea in theory. However, I really don't think DH's employer would even consider it given his position at work. Putting this aside, I think it's wonderful that fathers can share the responsibility. I'm a SAHM and I see a lot of dads at play groups and it really warms my heart. It feels like this generation of dads are much more involved with their children which is miles apart from my childhood experience and the role of my father .

[geekaMaxima]

Shared parental leave is great when employers step up and offer full pay to partners while on leave, same as they offer full pay for a while on maternity leave. The existence of the scheme opened the door for good employers to offer paid leave where they never would have before.

Shared parental leave in just the statutory pittance is not realistic for us or for many people, though. Just like we couldn't afford mat leave if it only offered statutory pay.

Unpaid parental leave is not something I've needed to call upon but I can imagine it would be valuable I'm difficult circumstances such as the DC being seriously ill.

[geekaMaxima]

*in difficult circumstances. Ffs, autocorrect.

[Jenijena]

We shared leave after the birth of my first son in 2012 under the old laws, and will be doing the same again under SPL, although in two consecutive chunks rather than the concurrent chunks.

We know if very few people who have done the same as us. We both work for large employers (mine a university, his a multinational IT company) who have the procedures in place but don't seem to have operating experience of them yet.

Main barriers/issues we've found include...

• enhanced maternity pay which does not apply to the other parent. If I worked for DH's employer, I'd have extra money between months 6-12, he doesn't (which means we'd be losing money if we both either there).
  
• the SPL system is almost too flexible. I applaud its aims, but wonder if the degree of flexibility (and the plethora of associated forms) is worth the employer and employee effort. I suppose, if demand picked up, it could be simplified - either the system would be so mainstream no one would blink an eye at it, but I'd fear becomes a massive hassle and just seen as a bureaucratic exercise undertaken by 'awkward' people.
  
• I came across many women who couldn't believe I'd 'give up' my maternity leave for my husband. I'm sure some of them judged me, and I'm even more sure that my husband was judged by some of the less 'hands on' dads we know. There is also still a huge attitude that dads doing childcare are 'doing a favour' for the mum. It's going to take ages for this to change but it's got to change...
  
• I'm fairly sure my husband's work position would have been better had he been a woman, where taking four months off and going back four days a week wouldn't have been so unusual. But since he did it four years ago, there are more part time men around, and unless the boat starts rocking, we're not going to make changes.
  
• my husband out earns me by about 20%, so we do take more of a financial hit by losing his salary rather than mine. However, it's not enough to dictate our choices.

[PeppaAteMySoul]

I am pregnant with our second child so shared parental leave is something we are looking into at the moment.
When our first child was born I was a university student and my partner was unemployed for the first 3 months. Although financially this was very stressful him being home witth the baby did mean they built a really close bond and our son is equally comfortable in either of our care.
I think it's important for both parents to spend one on one time with newborn babies to build the bond but also to ensure both are seen as equal parents with equal childcare responsibilities. With this baby I would like 7 months off and then for my husband to have the remaining 5.
The only problem I can see is that my partners employer seems to view childcare as women's work and I do worry what impact it would have on promotion opportunities etc. Hopefully changes in law will mean changes in our society's view of the gender roles in parenting.

[TheBeanpole]

We did this for our first in 2013 (I went back after 8 months and DP had the rest of the year) and will do so again for our next, due in September (probably a 9/3 split this time - DD was a bloody awful sleeper and I could have done with an extra month). From a financial perspective it was great for us- I out-earn DP significantly so it made more sense to go back, and from a shared parenting perspective it was great too- DP is just as hands-on as me and probably more so.

Quite a number of my male colleagues have taken it as well, and we're fortunate in that both our organisations offer the same package for both parents. But for friends whose organisations don't, they've found it hard to make it work. I think we probably need some test cases to equalise maternity/paternity/parental leave packages.

Did I get some judging? A bit, probably, from a few quarters, but not really. I got a few 'you'll probably change your mind's. And he got a few 'ooo aren't you GOOD's. And being the only dad at the park/library singing etc.

I do also feel strongly that like the Scandinavians we need a use it or lose it policy. The evidence shows that fathers didn't really embrace shared leave until this was introduced- the legislation needs to lead the social change.

[stealthsquiggle]

Talking to colleagues in the Nordics, men will nowadays get the look if they choose not to take their share of the leave. I do know one couple where the mother has taken it all, but it is not the norm (and in fact the father has taken over as the "default parent" as the DC have got older). Until attitudes shift this far in the UK, take up will be limited, and no doubt the sceptics will then conclude that no-one wanted it in the first place . I love going to customer meetings in Nordic countries, where any one of the men present will be more than happy to declare that they need to leave at a set time in order to pick children up and the like. I know plenty of my UK colleagues are doing the same, but they feel the need to hide it behind business-related excuses.

[drspouse]

Unpaid parental leave is very useful for us because I don't want to reduce my hours any further but need the occasional AL day for odd things, so I've booked a week of parental leave for our holiday in the summer and then will use an equivalent week in odd days over the year instead. DS is starting school in September so I can really see myself using extra odd days then.

[bulstrode]

This is a great first step but if the man only gets statutory pay then the impact will always be limited. For true equality and flexibility, men and women need to be eligible for the same maternity/paternity pay and free to split that how they choose.

[drspouse]

bulstrode Ideally companies would offer the same terms for shared parental leave but in practice this is likely to be a while coming.

Most employers move mums onto SMP after a time so at that point it makes no financial difference whether it's the mum on SMP or the dad on ShPP. So towards the end of the leave is an ideal time to swap.

[sharond101]

I agree with the scheme but believe it will work only for some. We couldn't share the leave. My Husband isn't fit to look after the children and so the responsibility is mine. I know friends though whom it would work better than the current system where they feel they need to return to work earlier than the family would wish to assist their career.

[bulstrode]

Yes drspouse but that's my point really. It isn't true flexibility if the mum has to use up her paid maternity leave or you lose out financially.

[Kittyluting]

I think shared Parental Leave give working women a better chance to return to the workforce, as husband/partner will no longer have the excuse to say they can't stay at home looking after babies. But again it depends on career choices, if the dad is on a higher paid job, women-stay-at-home situation is unlikely to be changed much!

[Thistly]

Shared parental leave only works financially if the mother is,the higher earner. As the way employers work it is that the full pay section for either parent runs out when the baby is,still tiny, families where the dad earns more will lose out on the time off on full pay unless he takes the time while the mum is still establishing breastfeeding.

Unless more money is put into it, its not going to have a high uptake.

I am fully aware of the policies, as my partner is currently on ShPL. and we are scrimping to make it work. I'm glad we can do it, because it good for all of us, but it ain't good for our finances

[AHobbyaweek]

We are currently using the shared parental leave scheme. I took 3 months off and when back to work while my husband is having 8 months off. His employer had not agreed/completed the paperwork until the week after I had given birth after many emails to their head office HR( big bike/car retail company) which was extremely stressful and they were not supportive in ANY way. They also pay mothers additional pay but they do not top up fathers pay.

He isn't going back to work but they have really pushed him out and already said if he did come back, they have replaced him so he will have to do a different job.

Companies are very behind but actually it's other people that have been negative about it. I still get comments (been back 4 months) that surely you are going back on mat leave, your DD will miss out, can your DH cope at home?!

[katiewalters]

I think both leaves are a good idea.
In regards to shared parental leave, I really like that, but for me personally I don't know if I would take that option, only because I breastfed and both my children wouldn't take to bottles so I couldn't even express

[XingXingFox]

We're doing shared parental leave and my DH works for a v old-fashioned City firm, and they are pro it. I think it's amazing for him to have the opportunity to be at home and I know a few dads locally now in baby groups that are doing it (never saw one when DD1 was a baby). These things take time to produce a sea change and I really hope it is the first step to society seeing parents as jointly responsible for their children instead of just the mother

[XingXingFox]

Ps he gets full pat like a woman at his org would. I only get statutory which also applies to men and women. It's not the scheme that means men only get stat but individual employers.

[Catsgowoof]

I don't like shared parental leave as I think it has a negative impact on breastfeeding.

I like parental leave but find the limited number of weeks over 18 years hard, how do you budget using the time effectively over such a long time period?

[geekaMaxima]

Why would SPL have a negative impact on breastfeeding? I don't follow.

For example, with DC1 I was on mat leave for 6 months exclusively bfing (DH took 3 weeks annual leave at the start), then I went back to work, DC1 went to a childminder, and I pumped milk.

With DC2 (now that SPL exists) I would still only want to take 6 months mat leave. As before, I'll pump milk when I go back to work. The difference SPL makes is that DH can take over DC2's care for a few months rather than a childminder.

[3boysNeedABiggerKitchen]

Shared parental leave regulations are over-complicated.
My partner and I had a baby (my 3rd, his 1st) in October.
I am coming to the end of my 6 months and need to return to work as the main earner.
My employer paid the basic government allowance and no more. It has been a tough 6 months, but worth it to have time with my baby.

My partner is the first man in his company (FTSE 100, so pretty big) to take shared parental leave. The company did not really have everything in place to process his application and details were scarce.

We had to do a huge amount of online research to understand the rules.

We are taking a significant wage hit for him to spend 6 months bringing up his baby, but it will be so worthwhile to see then bond and for him to experience that special time.

The regulations need simplifying if more fathers are to be encouraged to take this amazing opportunity.

For many people, the wage reduction will stop this opportunity being taken up. I am lucky to be the main earner, but we will still suffer when he earns nothing during the last 3 months.

In a family where the father is the main earner, it will be almost impossible to manage 6 months shared parental leave unless the company has a generous top up policy.

Great idea, tricky to navigate, huge implications on fabulous finances.

[voyager50]

I have heard of both and I think they are great schemes - it is a shame that so few couples take them up although this may be because of financial reasons rather than because one parent doesn't want to take the leave.

It may however be beneficial for same sex couples, particularly fathers as I am guessing that previously they would only be entitled to two weeks paternity leave.