So What *Is* Imaginative Play?

[WeThreeNinks]

My DS 2.5 wibbles his various figurines according to a plan of his own, same with his trains and cars and farm animals.

My SALT said that that isn't imaginative play and that he should be for instance pretending to make tea with a tea-set. Eh? I keep my toddler at least six feet away from scalding hot drinks!

Play ironing, (ha ) or cooking or hoovering is apparently imaginative.

That's role-play surely? And my DD was never encouraged to do such things, far from it

Enacting real-life situations doesn't seem imaginative to me compared to flying pigs but you do learn someting new every day.

So taking the Santa bauble from the Christmas Tree and placing him on the Chair bauble whilst saying, "Chair!" isn't imaginative? That's what he did earlier.

This is all very confusing but I do keep in mind the lovely DS who recently hid in the freezer cabinet pretending to be a sausage and thought that I would be so proud also if my son did that

Ah yes, when the consultant paed. asked me with a straight face whether DS2 imitated me by pretending to do ironing, I knew that she had failed what a well-known judge once called "my judicial laugh test".

Role play / tea set /little people- not imaginative play but roleplay. A common mistake even for Paeds etc.

Putting the teacups on heads to make battle helmets is imaginative play- it's about actually taking things out of context and doing new things with them, real imagination

We kept being told ds3 couldn't be ASd for a whole number of bolloxsy reasons and playing with littlepeople at nursery was one, however all he'd do was sit them in the plane and then repeat.

Yeah, I know, frustrating, isn't it! Like who actually makes tea with a teapot any more and doesn't just dunk the bag in the cup...
OTOH, I find now that I have an NT one that he does do that sort of stuff - takes the bike foot pump and drags it across the floor, pretending it's the hoover, pours out "coffee" using the watering can. Doesn't do pretend ironing but then I'm not sure he's ever seen mummy iron . DD's play was more like the stuff you describe. I still think it IS imaginative, but it is different from the way DS plays. Actually, I think that "imaginative play" is such a naff way of putting it. (BTW DS is 2.5 also, DD is now five). However, that's not why I think DS is NT - it's more to do with the fact he's so much more communicative - brings me stuff to show me, asks me for help rather than just trying to do things himself.

That's what I thought Peachy, he often puts cup on our heads and says, "hat". Taking things out of context and doing new things with them is a great definition

I don't know anyone who would serve tea in a pot on the table or do ironing with toddlers around. That's my excuse anyway

There is another word for it if IIRC- substitutive play, which explains it better IMO

it is all such a muddle, isn't it?

I remember dd1's old paed dismissing her pushing a plastic sweetcorn around and saying "car", "driving" etc (couldn't make the brrrrmmm noise!) but being very excited abuot her banging a spoon on a doll's head at pre-school (I think she was trying to feed it )

HOwever that left me cold, as she had been explicitly shown what to do with the doll, and encouraged to copy. Yeah, great that her imitation skills were coming on, but imaginative? Not in my book.

I am currently tying myself in knots with dd2, who is showing a few traits herself (2.11). She would be dismissed by most hvs/paeds etc though, i reckon, as she is very adept at doing just enough "imaginative" play to pass muster. She will repeatedly feed me/her toys/dd1 "lunch", but none of it is imaginative in any way, just role play.

My DS doesn't do that BriocheDoree, the showing or asking for help, he just screams to himself when things don't go his way but he does play imagininatively I think.

Maybe I should play that down though or it is going to get very confusing.

at lingette

it's all tied in with flexibility of thought, isn't it?

it does get very confusing though, when you try to describe it (or even think your way through it!)

My 3 year old loves an empty box-pretends to make it into a house/castle shop. When my 5 year old was 3 he didn't do that. It might be interesting to give your child an empty cardboard box and watch what he does with it?

Well my DS2 finally did what they are on about last week, ie. he pretended to make a phone call on a banana (then pretended it was a gun!). He is nine at the weekend, better late than never! He has always been very imaginative when it comes to drawing, thinking up stories and play acting, just never did the play with objects, I hate it when it is assumed he will be unimaginative, he is almost too imaginative IMO.

I have a query regarding imaginative play as well. DS is obsessed with playing skittles and with the tv programme hole in the wall. Everything he plays with is re-enacting what he has seen. What is interesting though is that he uses all sorts of amazing things and pretends they are skittles or the people off the game show.

Skittles for example are pens, pen lids, salt and pepper pots, thimbles, pegs, absolutely anything. When he plays hole in the wall he uses DD's plastic mermaids as people or Anton Du Beke, toy figures, finger puppets, teddy bears, again anything he can get his hands on. Now some would argue that the fact he can use an object for an entirely different use is imaginitive but to me he is still only role playing but using different items. Difficult

Here is my piece on the subject...
In my opinion imaginative play is a vague term, to me imaginative means a new invented way of playing that isn't copying, re-enacting, being able to develop and extend on a play theme without adult input. Maybe i'm being too picky about this?
Here examples DS (4) is playing in the home corner at nursery, he can put a saucepan on the hob or answer the telephone or put a cd on in the player, or even put the little people into a car. It's basic copying of what he sees on a daily basis, but he cannot expand , develop the play, DS has never put a saucepan on the hob, stired the 'imaginative' soup and done a pretend sniff to check that it smells good.
Or when he plays with the little people, he puts them in the car and goes 'vrooommm' but he's never named them or never pretended that they were driving somewhere out of his imagination like to see nanny for a cup of tea.
Maybe i'm expecting too much, i don't know...

Barmmy, it is a tough one and i'm unsure what to reply but i read a very interesting book back in the spring, called 'the handbook of autism' it did say that children who are mildly affected by asd (like our ds) can have some imagination but it will be limited and basic when compared to same age peers. It explained that asd especially when mild doesn't always equal a total lack of imagination, or even social skills ...

I'm thinking about Temple Grandin , i know she is an adult but she has invented all these machines for animals, for that she must have used both imagination and creativity surely?? but i'm going out of topic here.

If you saw the drawings DD does, you wouldn't call her lacking in creativity and imagination (actually, I see her future career drawing "bandes dessinées" ATM) but her play is copying, doesn't expand on her little routines (so I'm agreeing with you). However, she's just started doing it in French as well so that's a good thing .

I' m not calling anyone 'lacking in creativity' , i was just quoting something from a book that said quite the oposite: asd doesn't necessary = no imagination.
And i mentioned T.Grandin (and many other people with asd), well she is indeed both imaginative and creative, must be to have made what her inventions.

Sorry, that was "you" generically not "you" personally MSB!!

...as i re-read your post i realised it may not have been directed at me personally.
When i'm tired i should read posts twice before jumping the gun! Sorry BriocheDoree...

Actually since we are bothe on the same post, i have a question for you if you don't mind it. (not related to OP sorry).
I have relatives in France, and you may know the right answer, what is the translation of 'pdd-nos' in french, is it 'ted-ns'?
Thanks.

Yes, although in France they are usually lazy and just give you the diagnosis TED, which is what DD has. I tend to tell people in the UK that DD is PDD-NOS because it's what I think fits the bill and it's easier than trying to explain the French non-diagnosis system (it's not like in UK where services are linked to dx so often you won't get specific dx, e.g. autism, PDD-NOS, SLI, etc.) before age 7).
HTH
Brio.

Lol..yes they are lazy! My step-sister's son (who is in france) was 7.5 when they finally decided something was not right after he stayed behind for the second time in 'classe de CP' (you know 'redoubler'), he was dx with 'syndrome postural' but he has many traits of dyspraxia and LD on top.
Thanks for replying to my question anyway.

Ooh this thread has been really interesting reading.

I thought over the last couple of years that DD1 had mastered imaginative play, but as I read this, it is role play - playing with the cooker etc. The only one of her toys with a name is her build a bear, and you have to name it.

Her "imaginative play" has been one of the things that has made me question my AS opinion of her - this reassures me a bit that I am not insane

Barmymummy - I have something similar in that DS2, for the last 9 months or so, has been able to spot any vaguely rectangular object/group of connected objects from a hundred metres (eg a bubble bath container), pounce on them announcing "it's like a train!" then do the usual train noises. Supposedly that's the superior kind of imaginative play, but it doesn't get my heart racing.

Much more excitingly, he discovered a neglected cast of 12 identical plastic penguins (from some broken board game) which he arranges in family/school groups, acting out scenarios of fetching the DS1 penguin from school, having birthday parties, visiting the neighbours, etc. You can almost see him working out the dramas of his life. In fact, I'm just realising that I could make much greater use of this.....penguins using hand-driers in public toilets perhaps? Watch this space and thanks for getting me thinking.....

sorry, meant to add that the obviously more exciting penguin thing is presumably "just" roleplay. But it's roleplay that helps you figure out your place in your family and in the world..........

Linglette - I decided a long time ago that life is just too short, and wipe her hands on my jeans

DD1 (4.0) has never named a teddy or toy. Her comforter is very special to her. People ask her what he is called. "Bear". Of course. She also has a small cat that lies behind the right side of her head at night. His name? "Cat". All her dollies are named "Dolly".

DD1 has started "representational play", so making things in the kitchen, but people think she is making things up, when it is actually all copied. Her food cooks for "2 minutes". all of it. Always.

She never extends her play.

She was playing really nicely with other children today, and her teachers were pleased, until they realised that everything was dictated by DD1. All the children were dong what she wanted.

But the paed still says she is moving further away from an ASD dx

I was told (by SALT) that, bathing a dolly, pouring tea, hoovering etc.. is role play, making a den out of sheet, making toys talk to each other (making up voices) etc.. is imaginative play.

Dd2 has started to play with fisher price little people and makes them jump of the furniture, shouts 'blast off' and 'splash' when they jump onto the floor, she will hide one figure and then make the other walk around the room saying 'where are you', i see this as imaginative play, 3 months ago she had no imaginative play at all and would just line toys up.

Dd2 has also started walking around with a nappy on her head shouting 'hat, hat' , thats got to be using her imagination hasn't it??