Ignorant/Infuriating Guardian story

[eidsvold]

Anyone else read the 'confessional' in the guardian magazine today???? My dh saw it before I did and suprisingly he felt compelled to write to them to provide a more positive view.

Basically the story is about a woman who decided to terminate her pregnancy as the baby was shown to have downs ( amnio) and a heart defect. So you can imagine how that went over in our household. Some of the info told to her by medical professionals was appalling in terms of ignorant and ill informed. Whilst I want to feel sorry for the woman - I can't.

I am in the process of reworking our family story to send to the Guardian in the hope they will think about what they have written and be prepared to provide a more balanced view.

Even sadder to note that next week is Down syndrome awareness week - Good onthe guardian for helping to break down stereotypes and stop misinformation!!!!(NOT)

Feel free to join us in writing in to complain - if you get to read it.

eulalia, amnio wasn't even on the agenda for children 1 & 2 - I was 37 with child 3 (my daughters were 5 & 2) and decided against amnio on the grounds that I thought, then, that we could all cope with a child with DS. However, circumstances change.

With child 4 I was going to be 42, and the other kids were that bit older with lives of their own to lead, and I thought it wouldn't be fair to possibly have to spend a lot of time dealing with a baby with major medical problems and not be able to continue with the life they had led up to that point. I believe it's called utilitarianism - what is best for the greatest number of people? Yes, I would have sacrificed unknown unborn baby for the benefit of 3 known and much-loved existing children and no, I wouldn't have consulted them about it.

You may not consider birth order relevant to a decision like that but I do. You may consider it a pathetic excuse to justify my decision but I don't, obviously. And children grow up. Small children may well be totally accepting of whatever sibling turns up but when you give birth at an age past 40, you are effectively guaranteeing the passing of responsibility for a child who will need lifelong supervision, possibly up to retirement age, to its siblings.

I have said several times, on this thread and the other one, that my decision is completely personal and in no way reflects on what anybody else has done. I feel that calling it a pathetic excuse is offensive but, apparently, it is OK to criticise people who make choices like mine. No wonder www wants to keep her head down.

I think the problem with this argument - and the reason it has turned nasty- is that people don't understand that having a disabled child means that you are continually out and about with a child that society in general assumes isn't quite the real thing. Maybe if you haven't lived with that then you can't understand why it is so hurtful. I don't really have a problem with anyone's personal decision-providing it is made with correct knowledge, but I do have a problem with a society that assumes the correct and right and most noble procedure is to terminate.

I mean we all post on here fairly regularly about appalling attitudes from family, friends and our friends in the medical profession. There is a huge pressure from society to terminate for disability- and I'm not sure why that is. I don't buy this 'I couldn't cope with the pressure" arguement- not for DS (although I agree about trisomy 18 and trisomy 13) otherwise why wouldn't everyone be aborting twins to produce single pregnancies (after all they're harder work, more likely to be premature, more likely to have all sorts of problems). I suspect the pressure runs deeper than that. When I mentioned not moving on from the stone age before I was thinking about children with say a hare lip who were left to die. What about today- if hare lip couldn't be corrected today do you reckon that would be sufficient grounds for termination. I suspect that this is why those of us with special needs children found the article so troubling. I did feel the woman was repulsed by disability. I guess I'm arguing about that (all to common) attitude. But I suppose if you don't have disabled children you don't reaslise that that attitude is out there, and you don't realise that we are fighting that - rather than someone's right to terminate.

Does that make any sense?

I would also like to add that I know choosing to have a termination is usually a long and difficult road, and I would never condemn anyone for doing so, I hope noone felt I was. I am concerned by the attitudes met in general life with regards to disabilities, and that was my main issue with this piece. To me the author wrote about DS as if it was something to be ashamed of and feared (which it isn't of course) , as well as the complete and shameful lack of support and counselling this woman seemed to have before she made her decision, and the appalling attitude of the medical staff in question. All very sad.

I've just read all this, having been away for a few days, and i'm not going to contribute - all has been previously said about ignorant people. I had a good cry and gave ds, with cerebral palsy, with a big hug.

Hello Mabs welcome back.

Thanks Lou,hope things are ok with you all at the moment.

I just want to give all you mothers with special needs children a big hug. It is very hard being a mother, even more so when your child is considered to be less than "normal". Please don't get too upset, your children are beautiful and are so lucky to be loved and cherished. I hope you are all appreciated in your families.

Thanks Rhubarb- and thaks for stepping in and making the thread friendly again.

I was certainly too harsh on the mother and I do feel guilty about that. It's just sometimes society makes me want to scream!

Sloppy kisses to Rhubarb!

From our kids I meant!

Oh Rhubarb, bless you! Thanks for that hug and being understanding. Like Jim Jams says we did jump on her a bit but the tone was so harsh and the subject so close to our hearts etc that it was hard not to. I do love Mumsnet though, it's good to shout about these thigs sometimes you know, and to feel support etc. Glad all the nast stuff has stopped now though, it was all getting a bit much.

I feel that everyone has become quite agressive in this discussion. Yes parents are very touchy about Down Syndrome but why judge so harshly the personal choices of a woman and a mother?

ohh God, just as I thought it was coming to an end. I'm not touchy, I'm downright bloody protective, as all mothers are. I hate anyone calling my daughter severely disabled and a burden etc etc, and when people group children with special needs together and label them this way I'm/we're going to get angry. That's when it got angry and personal. I'm not defending myself for being 'touchy' anymore. I haven't judged anyone who doesn't want a child with special needs, or a termination etc, and I don't want my daughter, or other SN children judged and labelled as disabled. Thats all I've got to say, I'm sick of this now I thought we'd got this cleared up and the feelings of mothers with SN had been understood, I mean it's not hard to grasp is it and then we get called 'touchy'!!!!!

Walk away Thomcat!!!!!

.....and walk fast - don't look back

Think pure and happy thoughts.

You're so right girls, apart from this lovely, plesant little chat with you now, that was my last post on that subject. Going home to cuddle Lottie and chink milk / wine glasses with her!

Hi all havent got any children yet am 26 weeks preganant am new to this so please talk to me

oh kjk what a thread to come into.... I have resisted posting at times for fear of inflaming this any further. I originally posted to draw your attention to it and IF you felt like me and wanted to write to complain about the incorrect information contained in that article ( mainly attributed to an medical consultant) then to feel free.

And yes - to see if I was taking it all a bit too personally having been there in her position. I don't think I was harsh on the woman - I said I wanted to feel sorry for her but I can't. A very human frailty on my part.

I then felt myself being sucked in to justifying my views and my daughter's existence which saddened me. I really just wanted people to understand where I was coming from in my personal reaction to the story.

I am almost sorry I posted in the first place. I did not mean for this to get into a very heated argument about the pros and cons of termination.

So sorry for the upset all.

sorry kjk - welcome to mumsnet

oh pompom must be trying to stir surely? She can't be for real can she? Just when we'd all made up on the other thread as well.

Anyway to cheer you all up- we're not just touchy and over-sensitive- we're also mothers from hell- Take a look:

www.mothersfromhell2.org/

I LOVE this site- anyone want to start a UK branch? Wearing of pink balaclava's essential!

I am sorry janh I didn't mean you had made a pathetic excuse. After all you've not even had a termination. Do you think you could have done it at 23 weeks in similar circumstances to the woman in the article? You don't really have to answer that of course. I just think that it is flimsy ground to terminate at such a late stage. Surely if someone decides to have a baby they should accept the baby 'warts and all' and that baby should have right to life the same as siblings 1 & 2. Personally if I had any doubts about having child no 4 then I'd not even get pregnant in the first place.

I am sorry if I offended you - it cdrtainly wasn't intended.

Like eidsvold I found it hard to feel sorry for this woman. I keep thinking "what did you expect" It's like we all know there are risks but when they actually happen then some women just don't want to know... oh I'll shut up now ...

I'm there Jimjams. Lol at the Exlax of disability rights!

Thomcat- I dont understand why you are offended by SN children being labelled as disabled could you please explain because I am having a thick day.