Well - saw CAHMS today for the first time - you lot might be chucking me out

[hereidrawtheline]

Hiya we saw CAHMS today for the first time. The man was a child psychologist I think. We were there about an hour and a half.

He hasnt said anything concrete yet he said he wants to see DS some more for various sessions before he commits himself BUT he does not think DS has any SN.

He thinks - ready yourselves - he thinks it is all pretty much down to attachment issues. Between me and DS. He agrees there is a lot of anxiety, control, tantrums etc but he thinks it all likely stems from attachment anxiety and birth trauma. Even things like using his fist to feed himself he said could indicate that because it is more like human contact i.e. me. Anxiety etc is stemming from a traumatic birth, such as him absorbing in infancy that he hurt me. And then I had PND. And he suspects it is all anxiety and attachment problems. Also of course because he now just wants to sleep with me in my bed naked. And when he was a baby he would only ever sleep on mine or DH's chest he was never able to lie in a bed he screamed blue murder. And his comfort item is my tshirt that he's had since he was a few weeks old. And so on and so on.

He did say he isnt ruling out definitely anything like Aspergers just yet but he is not that way inclined. It was attachment attachment attachment.

So... I dont know. I feel really strange. Some of it makes sense I mean I know he and I are extremely close to each other and of course I well remember the issues he had as a baby and the birth and how much he wants me now, pretty much exclusively. I said to him I didnt think that would account for all the meltdowns but he said it might but we will look into it more. Of course some part of this reinforces my feeling it is actually my fault.

He wants to see DS several times starting some time in July for sessions where he plays and talks more with him.

So... what do you think.

[lou031205]

"This site is my attempt to pass on my knowledge from reading and learning everything I could find on this issue so that I could help our son and maybe help others who are walking this same path. "

It is just a personal site that you have linked to! Don't take it as gospel.

[lingle]

HereIdraw,

please don't be embarrassed, your reaction is entirely appropriate for a loving mother.

In due course you will extract any sensible information you can find from this neo-Freudian guy (I would have asked him if he'd just walked out of 19th Century Vienna tbh - did he diagnose you with hysteria yet?)as you continue to build up your expertise on your child.

[Bigpants1]

whatever "condition" your ds has, he has needs and difficulties that are "special" to him-so, he may not have SN in the traditional sense, but he has special needs.
We were also let down by our CAMHS team with our 2 sons,but they have their dx now-both on the autistic spectrum-several long years and a change of staff later!
If you still think your ds is on the spectrum after the psych. has had some sessions with him, then stick to your guns, and ask for an ADOS to be done-ask for a second opinion if need be.
I dont know much about Attachment Disorder, but think it is a complicated condition. Perhaps before you see the psych. again, do some research into it, and see if it "fits" with your ds-at least you will be able to voice an opinion to the psych.re the condition in general-knowledge is power!
Give yourself a few days break,then think how you want to proceed and what you want to get at the end of your ds sessions with the psych. Good Luck.

[Frasersmum123]

HIDTL - you have always come across to me as a caring mother who really loves her son.

Please dont let the google thing upset you.

Its very easy for 'Professionals' to twist things around to thier own end. Our first SALT was very good for this. I told her that sometimes it feels like I am talking to myself as DS doesnt understand me, and I joked that I dont know why I bother sometimes - in her report she twisted it round to the fact that DS doesnt talk because I dont interact with him - WTF! She also insisted on seeing us in the afternoon, where DS would be tired and cranky. When he cried so much I couldnt calm him down I had to give him a dummy (she even said - give him a dummy if it will calm him down) and she mentioned about Dummies in her report.Thank God we got a new SALT!

As the others have said, I totally agree to take the whole thing with a pinch of salt.

What did he say about the sleeping issues?

[BONKERZ]

CAHMS initially told me that DS had no problems ASD or ADHD. They said it was my attachment with him that was causing his issues, they booked me in for a MIM assessment and told me i needed parenting classes and some family therepy!
I did not settle for this and insisted on the ADI-R and ADOS test.
When they did do the ADOS and ADI-R it showed clearly that DS had atypical autism!!!!!

If you are in any way unsure push for further assessments, you will lose nothing by doing this!

[Pixel]

Crikey, just looked at that Wikipedia thing. Well I can promise you none of the things on that list apply to our family at all, yet ds has always been the most 'attached' child you ever saw! He used to get so hysterical if I left him that he would get awful diarrhoea and nothing on earth would console him. Thank goodness no-one suggested at the time that it was my fault (although there were a few hints about me still breastfeeding him), I couldn't have coped with that, I was at my wits end as it was.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say (cos I'm not sure if it's helpful to you atm or not), but he is now quite a confident 9 year old who loves going off to school and doesn't mind in the least if I go out. He is severely autistic though. 'Curing' the attachment had no bearing on any of his other issues, so if you still feel there is more to your ds's problems, trust your instincts and don't let anyone convince you it is your fault.

Actually, I've just had my first referral to CAHMS myself (lady came to see us tuesday) because ds's teacher thought it might be helpful. The lady was nice enough but I was still left with the conviction that ds's refusal to use his WECS at home is down to me not being dedicated/strict enough .

[hereidrawtheline]

thanks everyone so much for rallying around me. I honestly had the shock of my life reading those descriptions of behaviour and causes of Attachment Disorder. It just doesnt marry up to my bright, funny, sweet (troublesome!) loving little boy who has of course driven me to the brink of madness sometimes but it the light of my life. Quite literally, I adore him. It just sounds horrific the attachment descriptions.

Funnily enough when all I knew of it was the name I thought... well I can see that he has always been very clingy and needy with me. But that isnt how its put across.

[cory]

I thought the section on pseudoscientific theories at the end of the Wikipedia article was revealing.

and I have had experience of medical professionals who come up with a mother-blaming diagnosis when they simply don't know what's wrong

[hereidrawtheline]

ok - I know you all told me to stop googling and I know we have agreed this is all extremes and madness and typical but I just read the full wiki article and the link to that poor girl who was killed and I feel sick to my stomach. I dont understand. How can I be put in the same category. I'm sorry. I know there is I suppose a spectrum and different ways of dealing with things but really how can this resemble my family at all? And DS is never cruel to animals or anything. He hits me and DH in meltdowns but that is it. When he is not in that state he is pure kindness.

I'm really worried. Should I do some form of active disagreement? I mean, should I contact the doctors and say I object to these words being used on us? Or will that make me look even crazier than I may already look to them.

I have a migraine and feel really ill. DS is actually asleep in his bed, he barely slept last night and not at all today so he just passed out on hitting the mattress. So I am going to take some pain killers and go to bed myself. I am just going to stick around for a few mins.

[siblingrivalry]

I recently went through something very similar to you, unfortunately. We received a copy of a letter sent out by a nurse at CAMHS who basically blamed us for everything, twisted our words and actually lied about us refusing certain courses of treatment. This was just before dd's AS dx.

And I was livid and determind not to accept these ridiculous allegations, so I sent a letter to the director of CAMHS and copied in every man and his dog. I listed her allegations, one by one, and refuted each one. In the end the letter was 14 pages long!

To cut a long story short, this nurse's boss (child psyc) rang me and apologised unreservedly for what she had done. He ordered that the letter be retracted and basically said it should never have been written.

I'm thinking that it would be wise for you to write down all of the crap that has been suggested today as 'evidence' should you need it. I think it's better to nip it in the bud -so you could either send a letter disputing the theories this dinosaur doctor has, or hang on to see what his report says.
You do not have to accept that his opinion is valid; this kind of thing happens far to often and it makes me so .

Please don't panic, though, as today was only the first meeting. You know your child better than anyone, so go with your instincts.
I know it's horrible and scary, but remember that it is only one man's psycobabble and not a dx. You are not alone -we will all support you and you will come out the other side. Lots of us have been there -we can compare our t-shirts

[hereidrawtheline]

Well this is a strange thing that has made me tearful and angry. I just finally told DH what the attachment disorder stuff on the net says and he said "he didnt say attachment disorder he said separation anxiety" and I said "he said both" and DH said "no he never said the word attachment" and I said "he said it about a dozen times" and so on and so forth. The thing is I know he fucking said attachment I tell you I swear it on my life. And DH is saying the word was never used how can this fucking be? BUT what DH does not acknowledge was that he was entertaining DS in the corner with the toys while I was primarily talking to the doctor! So what about the 45 mins that DH wasnt even involved in the conversation? Am I not to know what was said then?

I am so angry and upset over this I cant even quantify it. I feel totally and utterly fucking beaten down. I am more than happy to hear the words separation anxiety over what I have read of attachment disorder but I am saying every other fucking word was attachment. I just cant depend on DH in these things I dont know what room he was in but my god. Either I am truly insane and not competent in any way or something is seriously wrong here. Because I didnt fucking pull those words I'd never heard used out of my goddamn arse.

[TotalChaos]

hereI - try not to be too angry with your DH, I have had a few similar situations with medical situations where both of us were present and there's stuff I remember and he doesn't - in my case it's because DH tends to defer to the professionals far more than me.

[Frasersmum123]

HIDTL - Why not try and eave it now - you are upset adn you need to get some sleep - it might be easier to thin about in the morning.

Then wait for the letter from the CAHMS Dr, that way you will know what he has taken down as fact, and that way you know what to rebuke etc.

I know its difficult and I can see why your upset, but you know you are not that person in the articles and you have nothing to feel bad about.

I have been told DS has attachment issues, but I just took it to mean he was very attached to me.

[BONKERZ]

i had a letter from chams stating they had observed me and my husband not interacting with DS and lots of other accusations like i did not discipline DS and let him make a mess in the psychs office.......none of this was true and had either been twisted or exaggerated to fit their point.
I contacted Patient liason (PALS) who advised me to write to the clinical lead at CAMHS.......he actually responded by backing up his collegues BUT agreed to do further assessment.
It is this same lead clinician who has actually just completed a full cognitive assessment with my DS and at the first appointment after the DX of autism he actually apologised to me!

my advice is to follow your heart......fight!

[5inthebed]

Oh HIDTL What an awful day for you.
I hav no experience with CAHMS, and reading this, I don't think I ever want to.
I hope they can help you, really I do.
You have always come across as very caring, you put up with a lot from your DS and still find time to post on here and write a blog!

Oh, and STEP AWAY FROM THE GOOGLE

[debs40]

Remember as well that your post said "He hasnt said anything concrete yet he said he wants to see DS some more for various sessions before he commits himself"

You initially spoke of attachment anxiety. Could it be that he was getting at separation anxiety more than attachment disorder? You could give him a ring and check. It's not worth falling out about until you firm this up in both your minds.

Appointments like this can whizz past in a blur and it can be easy, when there is a lot of uncertainty, to fixate on certain things.

Nothing is set in stone. He was voicing some initial opinions, probably tactlessly, But you know now the way his thoughts are developing so you can arm yourself to ask questions.

You seem very switched on to me in getting this far. Don't let these initial comments get you down too much.

Has anyone said anything about referring for any sensory issues etc?

[hereidrawtheline]

hello

I feel like the living dead.

DH and I did call a truce last night after a very short amount of time being annoyed with each other. DS was asleep in his bed but was having nightmares I suppose, crying in his sleep a lot. Shortly after my last post I went to bed and DS came in to me as he was by that point inconsolable. He also has a cold now probably because he isnt sleeping well. So we slept together but he woke me up around every 30-60 mins because he was feverish, nose running, bad dreams, couldnt find his dummy etc. So I just cant say how unrested I feel. It was awful really.

Last night I was obviously in a panic over what I was reading. I am now going to do exactly what Frasersmum says and shelve it until the letter comes through. There is no point getting myself into even more knots based on what I am worried about. Last night was a nasty shock but I need to leave it at that.

Ugh it just took me AGES to get our breakfast done mid writing this post because I am so not functioning remotely well!

[bubblagirl]

i hope you feel better sorry went to bed early last night so didnt see rest of post

please dont look things up as it never is a true indication to you or your child even with ASD we all google and not one sounds true to our child they are all so different

you are a fab mum and doing a great job don't be afraid to ask for further tests if you feel its incorrect and just wait now until appt comes up and just ask lots of questions etc if not satisfied ask for more tests to be done

try and rest as much as you can today don't make yourself ill i say that from experience i made myself sick with worry before ds was dx what if's was it me oh my god ive googled hundreds of things its all him next breathe no its not

just wait so you keep your sanity and stay strong for you and ds and dont allow the stress to ruin what could be good time spent together his still your adorable son nothing has changed and you have done nothing wrong you are doing everything right now relax have hot cup of tea and dont be too hard yourself were all here xx

[lingle]

I've done the "different memory" thing too HIDLT - both I and my MIL were concentrating intently on a funeral oratory which included testimony about the Holocaust - but we grossly disagreed later about what was said.
So your DH's selective hearing is pretty excusable I think.

keep telling yourself that you are the expert, you are the expert, you are the expert on this child.

[cory]

I know the sickening fascination those websites will have on you- all the hours I have spent googling Munchausen's syndrome and false abuse accusations after a consultant (not CAMHS btw) suggested that dd had a psychosomatic disorder and hinted at sexual abuse! (she does actually have a completely physical disorder- he just didn't know where to look).

But really, it is unhealthy, you must stop!

Or at least use that wikipedia article for something useful. Tell yourself that whatever is the matter with your ds, it is not what is being described in this article. You did not leave him in a Roumanian orphanage and refuse to interact with him for the first two years of his life! He is not showing the severely disturbed behaviour described in this article!

As for separation anxiety, that seems to be a bit of a blanket term that covers a lot of different behaviours. It may be that it is an appropriate term to describe your ds, but this does not mean that he will be the same as another child who can also be covered by this term. No doubt there are types of separation anxiety that are caused by insufficient parenting- that doesn't mean your ds has got that particular kind! Any more than the fact that my dd has back pain means that she has the particular kind of back pain that is caused by stress.

But because it's such a wide concept they will need time to investigate. The fact that he is booking you in for a series of appointments is good news. However much you tell them about your ds, it will never be the same as when they see it for themselves. I thought I had given every detail about my dd's inability to weight bear, but what actually made the difference was the day when the consultant saw her crawl into his room on her hands and knees: that's when he reached for pen and paper to write a referral.

So leave the internet, try to tell yourself that at least you are getting help, but that the doctor will need time- they are less omniscient than we think

[hereidrawtheline]

thanks [sheepish grin] you all seem so together and rational and here I was last night going from relatively normal to subtle accusations of abuse and neglect I'm sure as you have surmised DS's welfare is an exceptionally touchy subject with me

I have been a rather neglectful parent this morning. Because I am the walking dead! I have sat on the laptop and slowly drunk tea (this is my second cup) and unloaded/loaded the dishwasher. DS and I have spoken LOL but he is watching cbeebees.

I have given myself to the end of this cup of tea to be a terrible lazy mother then I will try to engage him on a human level. Waking approx every 30 mins just doesnt do wonders for your creativity! I have compensated somewhat by giving him one of my gorgeous, homemade, healthy but sinfully tasty ice lollies which he is now licking away at! Poor deprived child. Imagine, having a mother who made you ice lollies every day. tsk tsk.

[hereidrawtheline]

Just had a terrible incident with DS. We are both stinky & sweaty from sleeping together with his fever last night so I just ran us a bath. We were having a lovely time playing bath games. I said I had to wash his hair. This used to be a major problem but lately he has been pretty much ok about it. Well he went truly ballistic. I cant even describe it. With no exaggeration he was making noises like linda blair in the Exorcist. It was just totally abnormal. It took ages to calm him down, I washed his hair (forcefully because it really was a sweaty mess and needed washing) and then he quickly calmed down. I asked him why he got so upset and he said "because that spider is still on my neck" and this bloody spider. I dont know what happened but he came home from school Tuesday saying a toy spider had been on his neck. And he said it was funny now since then every single thing that gives him a meltdown he says afterwards its because the spider is still on his neck. He said his teacher said to him "why have you got a spider on your neck" I know this sounds nuts but I just want to know what the hell is going on. I'm going to call his teacher today and ask if this rings any bells.

[bubblagirl]

it might feel the same if someone was tiggling spider on neck could have disliked the sensation and the water running down his neck again tiggling reminding him of the spider

i have to wash ds hair with flannel so no water runs down his neck soap it up rub over head and then again another few times to rinse water out but its successful

hope you both have a relaxing day x

[TotalChaos]

sounds like talk about a "spider" is possibly his way of articulating sensory overwhelm? btw my DS really cannot stand hairwashing, I usually end letting him give his hair a quick rinse to avoid ww3! e.g if I took him and washed his hair now I would almost certainly precipitate a shrieking/thrashing out sort of incident.

[hereidrawtheline]

he used to be like that with hair washing butthe last several weeks or couple of months he has been making a game out of it... when he seemed really NT. That is firmly over!

TC would you read my weepy thread I started with new spider stories & see what you think?