Echolalia/GLP?

[ag12345]

Can I just ask if anyone has any advice on this. So my 30 month old son is slightly speech delayed. I have had a few ASD concerns about him but he’s developing well. Has a big number of single words. Is able to use words functionally, uses communicative eye contact etc. is able to ask for anything he wants verbally often in single words. Answers yes and no appropriately.
i was just wondering if this speech is considered echolalia? …
for eg he will say things like ‘here it is’ if I ask where something is, or if he wants his brother to come and play, he will say ‘brothers name come’ ‘all done’ when finishing changing his nappy or getting his clothes on. ‘When he wants to go he says ‘I say bye bye’ and I’ll say okay say bye and he will. If he hurts himself and he comes over for a kiss he will say ‘I okay.’ If we are leaving somewhere he will say ‘bye park, or bye slide’ or if an airplane is flying over he says ‘bye plane’ as it flys away. He will tell me about things, so show me a green pen and say ‘it’s green’ ‘it’s a ball’ and will swap and change these words. He does do some 3 word sentences such as ‘go in car’
he answers who and what questions like who is this and what is that?
basically he has a good number of learnt phrases but he does make his own up too.
does this need looking into ?

What happens if you ask him an open question? Does he have an understanding of concepts and time e.g yesterday or future events?

@valensiwalensi the concepts of time no but I don’t believe that’s an age appropriate. There are lots of older children who do not get concepts oF time.
and by an open ended question such as ‘where do you want to go?’ And he will say park or in the car etc?

why are you concerned about echolalia from your examples ?it sounds like normal speech development to me and it’s all in context

@angpat i don’t know. Maybe looking into things? So you don’t feel what I’ve described is echolalia ? because I felt that some of the speech he uses are learned phrases that are used in context for eg when I say let’s go for a bath, he will say brothers name ‘come’ and I say yes and he says ‘he’s coming’ because that’s what I say to him ‘he’s coming’ he also sometimes reverses pronouns? Which I’ve googled is also normal at this age and usually sorts its self out ? So like I’ll say ‘where’s DC gone’ and he will say ‘here he is’

Hi OP, my eldest (who does have ASD) was very echolalic. Where it was really obvious was that you'd ask him a question and he'd just repeat the question back instead of answering it. So I'd say "what do you want to watch on tv" and he'd just say "what do you want to watch" instead of giving an answer. It was a literal echo of what was said to him. For a long time he wouldn't answer any questions unless you supplied a list of possible answers for him to pick from.

He also reversed pronouns until he was about 4 and a half, I think at 30 months its fairly normal though? I can't easily compare as DS1 didn't really speak much at all at 30 months tbh.

What I would say is if you have other ASD-type concerns as well and you decide to get them investigated, then yes I would mention that you have concerns over speech as well. But from what you've described I'm not sure you'd meet the threshold for NHS speech & language input based on your son's speech as you've described it (they refused to see my son at all until he was three, and had zero strategies for ehcolalia anyway).

No that doesn't sound like echolalia at all. I wouldn't worry at this stage, just see how it goes. It will be much clearer either way the older he gets.

@ViveLaOeuf thanks for your detailed response I really appreciate it. He also still speaks in jargon. I did speak to a speech and language therapist and she did say jargon and this age is very typical. we have new phrases every day which makes me think they aren’t ’scripted’ as he said yesterday ‘sit on knee’ whilst tapping my lap.
my other ASD concerns are he makes a fist and flaps his arms like a bird only when excited. This is becoming less and less now. He was late to point (18 months) and speech delayed but really that’s it.
he parallel plays with other children, good play skills with toys, good pretend play and imagination, he is communicating well for needs and wants and to share interest, he eats well and did sleep well but has got a bit of separation anxiety now since starting nursery and wants me to sleep with him, in the middle of the night eye roll
I have noticed he keeps making a strange noise with his nose. The only way I can describe it is blowing a big booger out of the back of his nose. I was wondering if this is a verbal tick. I’ve done a lot of reading about it and it does say it’s quite common for children to go through phases of having tics ? Have you ever heard about it ?

@takemeawayagain thank you for responding :) I’m trying not to worry. I’ve decided my cut off is 3 and if I don’t see considerable improvement I’m going to contact a private speech therapist. I know echolalia is part of typical language development but I didn’t know if it was anything to worry about

@ag12345 how is your son? He sounds very similar to mine. He's 29 months. He does all the same as what your son says but also repeats often, we can say bye bye 'sons name' and he will just repeat it back and I say 'no you are 'name' but he knows his name too. It's so hard not to worry.
I'm also saying I'll give it until 3 and then pay to see s&l privately. Does your son go to nursery? Have they said anything? Mine does and did mention he's quite echolalic but said it's age appropriate 🤷‍♀️

@char2108 my son doesn’t really do that. But a lot of learnt phrases is normal language development so I’m told by a speech therapist. Yeah he does and no they have t said anything to me about him. His language is coming on to be honest and understanding is getting better and better. I told him to give the bunny some ice cream today and he did it !

Not an expert but this is my understanding.

All children use chunks, not just GLPs - it's a very normal part of language development.

The difference between typical language acquisition and GLP as I understand it is that GLPs go through stages in a different order.

Typical language acquisition will be:

Single words (and some chunks but they think of them as words e.g. "where is it?" or "All done" or "Bye bye" or "Thank you" or even phrases like "Paw Patrol is on a roll")

Combining 2-3 words together (Daddy + home) = "Daddy home?"

Combining words in a more flexible way e.g. "Daddy home now?" "Daddy comin home later."

The words will often be simple and familiar - they will mimic words they hear often but they are less likely to pick up on individual words that aren't commonly used around them. Because when they hear other people speak, they recognise that there are individual words within that stream of talking.

Whereas GLPs don't have that recognition to begin with - they hear a sentence and they process it as a whole. So they might not go through those stages - instead they will have some longer phrase which has meaning to them, and it might contain quite obscure or surprising vocabulary that you wouldn't expect to be familiar.

They then have to move through phases of breaking the gestalt down, mixing + matching it, then finally breaking down more and getting to single words before being able to put those back together.

Sometimes they manage this fine and you might not even realise they are a GLP - I think DS2 (5) is possibly an example of this, no professional thinks it is remotely interesting BTW but I'm fascinated!

But some DC (commonly on the autism spectrum) can get stuck in stage 1 and struggle to move forward from there. It seems like the GLP tips you can find online about modelling useful phrases and trying to track any meaning and context you can find for their gestalts are harmless if they aren't GLP, and could help hugely if they are, so may be worth trying?

This is useful.

https://www.meaningfulspeech.com/blog/stage-1-stage-3

@BertieBotts thank you that has made it much clearer and I do believe you have described my son. He doesn’t use chunks and knows individual words etc.
thank you I will have a look at that link

Hi any improvements please ? ☺️

@Mollymomma123 we have been having private speech therapy for 6 weeks. He’s really coming on. He’s not conversational but language skills are coming along, learning new words all the time and speaks in 2-3 word sentences. Sometimes I do have to prompt him though. We was at soft play today and he said mummy and pointed to the soft play and I said ‘what do you want mummy to do’ he said ‘go down slide’ which was wonderful 😊
how’s your little one? X

I am so happy to know that your LO is improving and happy .
I have got a little girl who just turned 21M and I am a bit concerned about her language development. Now , she has over a 100 single words and uses them in appropriate contexts . She has good joint attention and does interact with people by smiling and waving , she always follows my point . She asks for what she wants by using words and can imitate and point to her or ours body parts . I reckon her understanding is good but I am not sure what’s appropriate for her age . She can understand “no” and lets go outside , get the shoes , bring the baby doll to mom , give daddy a hug , clean the floor , be gentle , time to brush your teeth and bath time . She has started to string two words together like : daddy go , big bus and sit mummy etc , more milk ..
Still not keen on answering simple questions with regularity like do you want milk etc .. I know it is a skill kids develop between 18 and 24 months but I am not sure . She is a toe walker since she was 15 months , she started to walk at 12 and I know it is a huge red flag but we have taken her to see an orthopaedic specialist , Gp and no one was concerned . ( she never toe walks with shoes but almost 80 % indoors barefoot ) .
She can identify familiar people in pictures and send kisses . She can focus on a story or a book and can sit still for a long while if she is watching something she enjoys.
Other things that concern me is that she tends to twirl her wrists when tired or excited but only for a few seconds and I have been told that to be consistent with stimming it has to be done for multiple hours a day .

Food wise she seems to be on the picky side . Since she was 15 months we have had ups and downs . She eats what we give her like . Pasta with veggies and olive oil , homemade meatballs , spinach and Brie sauce , she loves raw veggies like carrots and cucumbers, but lately she seems to eat but pulls a face like sour taste at every food she has ?

She also has an amazing memory with regards to nursery rhymes and can count to 10 ( red flag ? )

She doesn’t stuck up blocks only magnetic legos . She makes tower with those .

Socially she is very shy and wary of strangers if they try to pick her up but says hello and wave at them if they interact with her .

Do you see anything that I don’t ? I have read about GLP ( gestalt language processor ) but don’t know what age it starts or how it presents really ☺️?
She repeats the last word of a simple question and sometimes answer yes .. is scripting considered a repetition of a question or phrase she heard from us ? Is scripting always associated with ASD?

She can respond to what’s questions but iffy on the where’s questions ? FE “where is daddy “ she goes and look for him and when she sees him she calls his name but doesn’t always point .

She can shake for no but rarely nods

@Mollymomma123 to be honest what your saying at her age seems very on track? She’s doing more than what my son was at 21 months. Counting is not a flag. Neither is toe walking. It’s exploration of the feet and floor.
it’s sounds to me like she’s doing very well. It’s hard because I don’t want to dismiss how you feel because everyone did that to me. My son at that age didn’t have that many words. But he did have over 50 by 2 which is what they hope for.
does she have joint interest like pointing to something and then looking back to check with you to see if you saw it too? Brings toy food to you to feed you etc ? does she look at you for praise and acknowledgement ? X

☺️ thank you so much for your reply .. yes to all those things . She brings us real food and feed us as well !!

Hi sorry again to bother you . I wanted to say that I really appreciate your answer and thank you for not dismissing my feeling ☺️
how was the speech therapy for you ? Do they suspect ASD ? Do they agree that echolalia is normal before a certain stage ? Many thanks x

@Mollymomma123
Hi! My son has come on loads, he's 34 months and has started to have conversations (basic ones but still!)
He does still do a bit of repeating but it's toned down loads!!

Looking at your post I'd say nothing stands out too much for me. It's all age appropriate. My son used to tip toe too and he doesn't now, my nephew who is 25 months still does. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
I know how hard it is to not stress though.

We saw a massive change when he turned 2-2.5 so I'd wait and see what happens then. They change so much at this age and literally overnight.

We are currently potty training and it's going amazingly so his understanding seems to be on track

@Mollymomma123
Also, I kept being told that echolalia is completely normal up until 3 years old and by that time a child should be able to form their own sentences so don't worry too much.
My son used it a lot but then used them in his own vocab so I'd say that's just how he learnt his language! 👍

Amazing .. and thank you for your kind words ☺️ any tips for potty training? (FTM here ) my LO can tell me when she’s doing a poo but never when she needs a wee x
she understands when I go to the loo and she says “ wee wee “ .

@Mollymomma123
I was the same- properly winging it😂
That's a really good start! My son wasn't even doing that. My nursery just said put him in pants and stay in the house for 3 days so I did that over half term and he had a few accidents but took to it really well. He does tell me when he needs a wee and poo now. I do have to remind him a lot but that's fine. He's not had a single accident for a week though.
You may be surprised and she may be ready. You could give it a go and if it doesn't work put the nappy on and try again in a few months 🙂 good luck!

She sounds like she's doing amazingly though!!

Thank you mama ☺️ it is a hard road !!!
sorry last question here . My LO points to share interest and always uses words with the pointing , but she doesn’t point in books she rather uses the word for a specific image .