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Urgently need support please, so upset!

74 replies

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 08:17

Hello, I’m hoping for some support and advice please as I’m completely lost and heartbroken and don’t know what to do!

My son (3) has had difficulties since he was 1 year old.

I informed his nursery before he started (aged 2) there that we suspected he had ADHD and also that he was not reaching developmental milestones. We asked if they could support us with referrals etc if needed further down the line and they said they would of course do that.

His key worker when he first started kept talking to us at pick up time saying she thought there was something going on with him, which we agreed with and had taken him to a GP who had said he was fine, nothing going on.

His behaviour started to get really difficult. Tantrums multiple times a day which he couldn’t be distracted from and could last an hour or more. Very aggressive behaviour towards us and his older sibling and towards children and staff at nursery.

When he started in the pre school room in September last year we kept speaking to various members of staff about his behaviour and how concerned we were .

Finally in October last year a meeting was arranged with the SENCO. She did a support plan for him and SMART targets and referred him to speech and language therapy plus contacted the area Senco.

He completed an Ages and Stages questionnaire with our health visitor in February and scored 170. We were told that scores over 59 indicated the need for an autism assessment. We’ve been referred and are waiting.

There were 3 incidents of inappropriate behaviour at nursery where he put his hands down another child’s trousers. I was contacted by his room leader and told if there were any more incidents he would have to leave the setting. I asked what happened after the incident and if she spoke to him and told him not to do this. She said she’d just led him away. I spoke to him that evening and explained he mustn’t do that any more and there’s been no more incidents.

I contacted the nursery manager who said they weren’t at that stage yet and had other options to try first.

Every time we have a meeting at nursery we’re told what hard work he is and how much they’re struggling.

My concerns now are that the support plan has not been followed or updated since October. When questioned about this they said they didn’t have the staffing ratios to be able to do this.
A chew bracelet we brought into nursery for him to use when anxious has not been used and he repeatedly comes home with mouth ulcers from biting the inside of his cheek. A sticker chart we were using to support him and which was working very effectively - they lied about using it and when confronted admitted they’d forgotten!

We were asked to take different hours for him as they struggle with him at pick up times. We couldn’t do this as it didn’t fit in with our jobs and felt we had no option but to offer to collect him earlier instead.
We’re now missing out on hours we could be working and it’s having a financial impact.

We want to take him out of the nursery as don’t feel he is being supported but both my husband and I need to work and need child care so need to find another nursery first! They’re all full or unable to manage “another child with SEN”

I had to take the day off yesterday to keep him at home as he’d been left on Thursday without support although exhibiting quiet and withdrawn behaviour and had chewed the inside of his cheek severely and was flapping his hands and really struggling even at home. He had a huge meltdown that evening and Friday morning and I couldn’t face sending him in.

At home my son is easier to manage. We’re using aids for children with ADHD and autism and learning how to manage his behaviour and support him effectively.

We don’t feel his nursery are making any effort apart from complaining how much hard work he is and we’re finding it so upsetting. All I seem to be doing recently is crying, worrying and struggling to sleep!

Sorry for the long post. I’m trying not to drip feed!

OP posts:
TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:01

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:00

They’ve said the whole way through that they can support him.
It’s my husband and I who have been saying to them that we don’t believe they can. We are now looking at other options so we can remove him ASAP.

but op they said they don’t have the staff ratios to implement the plan

they have said they can’t “deal” with him at pick up times so you’ve had to adjust hours and miss work

what they are saying and what they are doing are completely mismatched

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:02

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 08:59

Ignore the Area SENCO, they are fobbing you off. It will help if you learn now to never trust what the LA or school tell you about the SEN system. Always check.

If you haven’t already, reading IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites will help you understand the SEN system better.

We did think she was fobbing us off.
I rang SENDIASS and Contact for advice and was told that it appeared we were being misled.
We were told also that the nursery are potentially discriminating against him.

OP posts:
Fixerupper77 · 23/03/2024 09:03

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 08:38

We did say to them that we feel they’re discriminating against him.
Our son is triggered by business and noise. We’ve told them repeatedly.
We’ve also told them signs that show he’s struggling such as flapping and tilting his head to the side. They don’t seem to even see this!
They took some photos of him saying he was balancing well on a beam . In the photos it was clear to see he was chewing his cheek, head tilted to the side and looking really sad.
We’re trying our best to look for another nursery, but options are scarce.
I wish we could afford private but we can’t. We struggle financially.
Im contemplating asking my parents for a loan though.
I just want my little boy to have the support he needs.

Have you tried ear defenders? DD3 has a pair that’s kept at nursery - could be helpful?

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:03

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:00

yes
adhd

Then it is strange you don’t seem to be supportive or know the SEN system.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:04

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:01

but op they said they don’t have the staff ratios to implement the plan

they have said they can’t “deal” with him at pick up times so you’ve had to adjust hours and miss work

what they are saying and what they are doing are completely mismatched

Yes I know. Which is why my husband and I have repeatedly pointed that out to them and are now going to remove him.

OP posts:
TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:04

i am supportive

the OP’s child is simply not in the right setting as the evidence repeatedly shows her

Fixerupper77 · 23/03/2024 09:05

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:04

i am supportive

the OP’s child is simply not in the right setting as the evidence repeatedly shows her

Yes, it’s not the right setting because they are being SHIT. There are obligations they MUST meet and sounds like they are doing a piss poor job of it.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:05

I’ve not tried ear defenders but will do that. Thank you for the suggestion!

OP posts:
TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:06

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:04

Yes I know. Which is why my husband and I have repeatedly pointed that out to them and are now going to remove him.

ok so you can put aside all thoughts about this nursery etc if it’s dead in the water (which is the right decision)

so now it’s simply another nursery
or
a nanny

i went with the latter and it was so good. He became so much calmer and happier
and you son hates noise? can’t get noisy than a mainstream nursery OP

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:06

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good, but far too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:07

Fixerupper77 · 23/03/2024 09:05

Yes, it’s not the right setting because they are being SHIT. There are obligations they MUST meet and sounds like they are doing a piss poor job of it.

You can try and force a setting completely without the apparent experience, expertise or desire to fulfil its obligations

but whether that’s actually in the interests of the child is another matter remotely

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:08

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:04

i am supportive

the OP’s child is simply not in the right setting as the evidence repeatedly shows her

Legally the nursery are obligated to make reasonable adjustments which are what is in his support plan. They now have funding to pay for more staff which has been granted by the LA.
If they couldn’t follow the support plan they shouldn’t have written supporting techniques they couldn’t manage-such as offering him his chew bracelet when he looks anxious.

OP posts:
Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:08

It is not supportive to suggest it is unfair to expect a nursery to support a pupil with SEN when the nursery is not even providing a basic amount of SEN support and have fobbed OP off about requesting an EHCNA. If the nursery seriously thought they couldn’t meet needs they should have requested an EHCNA long before now.

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:10

the op has decided she’s definitely going to move her child

so i’m just looking ahead 🤷

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:12

It is not looking ahead to post it is unfair to expect a nursery to deal with a child with SEN.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:13

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:10

the op has decided she’s definitely going to move her child

so i’m just looking ahead 🤷

I’m actually finding your posts aggressive, confrontational and upsetting.
I’d rather you just stop.
I struggle to believe you have a child with SEN as you have no empathy and it feels you’re just being deliberately argumentative and obtuse.

OP posts:
TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:14

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:12

It is not looking ahead to post it is unfair to expect a nursery to deal with a child with SEN.

A child displaying increasingly violent attacks on staff and other children

and repeated inappropriate behaviour with another child

this is a mainstream nursery with ratios that reflect that fact and has a duty to protect the other children in its care

yes you can force them to adhere with the tick boxes but whether that is in the interests of the Op’s son is another matter altogether

but she has accepted that is the case and is now asking about alternatives

Fixerupper77 · 23/03/2024 09:14

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:08

Legally the nursery are obligated to make reasonable adjustments which are what is in his support plan. They now have funding to pay for more staff which has been granted by the LA.
If they couldn’t follow the support plan they shouldn’t have written supporting techniques they couldn’t manage-such as offering him his chew bracelet when he looks anxious.

It’s exhausting but don’t be afraid to be THAT parent. I have to be up the arse ALL the time. Don’t be afraid to ask for frequent meetings and updates and to see the plans and documentation.

youl probably need to do that no matter how good the setting is.

dont bother replying to the messages about how nurseries shouldn’t have to deal with SEN - it’s Saturday morning and people are clearly bored…..

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:15

good grief

ok i’ll bow out

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:16

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:14

A child displaying increasingly violent attacks on staff and other children

and repeated inappropriate behaviour with another child

this is a mainstream nursery with ratios that reflect that fact and has a duty to protect the other children in its care

yes you can force them to adhere with the tick boxes but whether that is in the interests of the Op’s son is another matter altogether

but she has accepted that is the case and is now asking about alternatives

Your lack of understanding and knowledge of the SEN system is astonishing.

@SeventyNineBottlesOfWine OP I urge you not to move DS at this point in the EHCNA process. If you do the LA is likely to refuse to assess on the (unlawful) basis DS needs time to settle at the new placement and then you will have to appeal.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:20

TheNewDeer · 23/03/2024 09:14

A child displaying increasingly violent attacks on staff and other children

and repeated inappropriate behaviour with another child

this is a mainstream nursery with ratios that reflect that fact and has a duty to protect the other children in its care

yes you can force them to adhere with the tick boxes but whether that is in the interests of the Op’s son is another matter altogether

but she has accepted that is the case and is now asking about alternatives

His attacks aren’t increasingly violent. He slaps.
The frequency of this increases when he isn’t supported as per his plan.
The 3 incident where he put his hands down the back of a child’s trousers stopped when I explained he wasn’t to do this. I have since spoken to another SENCO at a different setting who said he’s only 3 and many 3 year olds, including those who are neurotypical will sometimes do things like this. Nobody other than his current nursery has any concern about this.

OP posts:
SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:21

Fixerupper77 · 23/03/2024 09:14

It’s exhausting but don’t be afraid to be THAT parent. I have to be up the arse ALL the time. Don’t be afraid to ask for frequent meetings and updates and to see the plans and documentation.

youl probably need to do that no matter how good the setting is.

dont bother replying to the messages about how nurseries shouldn’t have to deal with SEN - it’s Saturday morning and people are clearly bored…..

Thank you. I’ve found it really upsetting.

OP posts:
SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:22

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:16

Your lack of understanding and knowledge of the SEN system is astonishing.

@SeventyNineBottlesOfWine OP I urge you not to move DS at this point in the EHCNA process. If you do the LA is likely to refuse to assess on the (unlawful) basis DS needs time to settle at the new placement and then you will have to appeal.

Thank you for letting me know this.
My concern is that the process will take such a long time and my husband and I have completely lost trust with the nursery he’s in.
I feel so sad at the thought of keeping him there!

OP posts:
Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:44

In the short term, it will be hard, but in the longer term getting an EHCP will ensure DS receives the support he needs.

Unless you have to appeal, the process will take another 17 weeks. Those timescales can be enforced when LAs think they don’t have to stick to them.

If you do have to appeal, which many do, it takes time, but you can move DS then. For example, the LA must inform you if they are going to assess or not by week 6. If they refuse to assess you could then appeal and alongside this appeal.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 23/03/2024 09:55

Headfirstintothewild · 23/03/2024 09:44

In the short term, it will be hard, but in the longer term getting an EHCP will ensure DS receives the support he needs.

Unless you have to appeal, the process will take another 17 weeks. Those timescales can be enforced when LAs think they don’t have to stick to them.

If you do have to appeal, which many do, it takes time, but you can move DS then. For example, the LA must inform you if they are going to assess or not by week 6. If they refuse to assess you could then appeal and alongside this appeal.

So we should keep him there until the EHCP is in place?
If they refuse to assess by week 6 could we move him then?
Sorry for all the questions . This is all new to me.

OP posts: