Diagnosing dyspraxia

[Saker]

My ds2 is 3 and I suspect may be dyspraxic ? he has poor fine and gross motor skills, lowish muscle tone and problems with co-ordination and motor planning. He also has unclear articulation and his language whilst quite good in some ways (e.g. he can string a reasonable sentence together such as ?I want to stay and stamp in the puddles some more?), can get quite muddled up in terms of trying to hold a conversation.

He has been seen by all and sundry and last week my dh and I suggested to the paed that he might be dyspraxic. The paed sort of agreed it was possible but prefers a label of global developmental delay and says that is too early to diagnose dyspraxia at this age.

Does anyone have experience of a child being diagnosed this little or am I being unrealistic? I am concerned that he might not get all the help he needs without a diagnosis but maybe there is a limited amount that can be done for dyspraxia other than what would be done for GDD at this age anyway? I would be grateful to hear other people?s experience in terms of diagnosis.

sorry, meant to add a suggestion which I think Jimjams first mentioned ages ago (yes, I am a walking Jimjams fan!). Saker and Aloha, as both your boys seem to have tactile sensory needs, you could try rolling them up tightly(but not too tightly!) inside a blanket or duvet with head sticking out and then unrolling them, or making them into a 'hotdog' when they are rolled up and 'putting' pretend ketchup/relish etc on them with your hands (ie just rubbing the child with your hands) so they get lots of tactile sensory input.

We do body brushing with our son twice a day and I think OT's tend to avoid it if possible because of the routine nature of it but you could ask your OT about it (assuming that you do find an OT saker!). Are either of you trying fish oils? Ds has had it since September but I can't say that I have noticed any change but I guess, like a lot of these things, it is hard to tell what will work with a particular child.

Oh a post disappeared on me there! I thought I had posted a message saying that the out of sync child book has lots of suggested activities for different sensory needs too but that message never made it and I just started wittering about examples...I hope someone can make some sense of what I'm trying to say - I'm not sure I can!

Thanks for the advice Sis. Ds2 has fish oils. I think they helped him a bit - but I started him when he was just over 2 and so it's hard to know what improvements would have happened naturally. Sometimes we make a cushion sandwich with him but I haven't tried rolling him a duvet - I'll give it a go for a change. We also massage his hands and fingers often which he really likes. I have read about brushing - but wasn't sure about it - do you think it helps?

The body-brushing seemd to have helped to the extent that he is a lot less ticklish now than he used to be but not sure about any other changes.

I asked this on another thread earlier today, but didn't really get an answer. When you talk about not riding a bike, do you mean not being able to do it all even with stabilisers, or not being able to ride without stabilisers?

My oldest daughter is 5, and having read a couple of dyspraxia threads I'm beginning to wonder, because a lot of the symptoms sound like her. She was late in her motor skills and was diagnosed with benign congenital hypotonia (low muscle tone) when she was a year old. However it sounds like that can be part of dyspraxia.

She is very clumsy, doesn't look where she's going, is a messy eater, etc. She's very bright academically, but physically she's way behind. As fas as riding a bike goes, she took a long time to figure it out but is now fine with her stabilisers. There's no way she could ride it without them.

She has just started taking tae kwon do and loves that, and she also enjoys gymnastics which she is getting better at.

I did a quick Google search and most of the stuff that came up was British. I'm wondering if it has a different name here in the US, or just isn't recognised much? I think I'm going to keep it in the back of my mind and maybe ask her doctor at some point.

Saker, I've emailed you.
KATG, ds is three and nowhere near riding a bike of any kind, not even a baby tricycle. We are buying him a scooter for Xmas - just the little baby ones which you push along with your foot - because he yearns for one, but I am worried that he won't be able to 'get' how you move it (has tried them and just looks baffled and very stationary). Ho hum. Still, poor mite has the word's most uncoordinated, rubbish at sports, can't catch a ball mother, and I'm sure he's inherited it from me.

Saker and Aloha, my ds is also nearly 3, and what you've said is ringing bells with me. We're waiting for a diagnosis.

I've been reading both the dyspraxia threads that are going at the moment, and just wondered if anyone can tell me the difference between dyspraxia and an ASD? Are they completely separate and unrelated? I had a look at the dyspraxia foundation list of symptoms, and they include things like lack of imaginative play, isolation within peer group, slow to respond to verbal instruction and persistent language difficulties. Confused!

Well, my son has a delay in his motor skills, some sensory issues and DCD - probably. The OT agrees that it looks like dyspraxia, but won't say so officially as he is so young. He's DEFINITELY not ASD. I think all these 'new' disorders have very vague boundaries and cover a huge spectrum. I feel sure that ds's problems are 99% purely physical, but this can lead to social problems - ie not sure he would be at all happy in a nursery and he feels insecure and stressed around a lot of children his age as they are so unpredictable. He's much happier with adults or older children and is fine iwth babies - it's just toddlers he doesn't trust!

However, it is not at all unheard of for ASD and Dyspraxia to go together. I think the book The Out of Synch Child is good at explaining how they can overlap.

So what is ASD? What's it stand for?

beccaboo,
I think the Dyspraxia site is highlighting a specific lack of interest/motivation in activities such as role play and dressing up, not knowing how to join in or what to do, so a more conscious decision not to participate. Dyspraxia is more a problem in connecting the thought to a logical physical process, so they cannot carry out multiple instructions well because they lose the thought process part way through. What I'm trying to say (not v. clearly) is that it is about difficulties in carrying things out as opposed to an inability to listen, understand or interpret. I'm sure it is possible to have an overlap with other disorders though.

kateandthegirls,
google threw up this site .I'm not sure if it US based but perhaps some of the terminology would point you in an appropriate direction.

Kateandthegirls ASD stands for autistic spectrum. Lizs you're right children with dyspraxia do have difficulties in carrying out instructions. They have difficulties with co-ordination and also have organisational problems. As I have said before my DD is 12 and is perfectly able to answer questions verbally but she has difficulty writing answers. She had a scribe for her maths and science Sats and got level 4's in both. We are at the moment having trouble with ther high school as her writing has got worse since starting. She is not getting as much support as she did in primary school. We are having a meeting with the senco and head of year this afternoon to try and sort this out. We haven't even seen an IEP for her and she is now in year 8. Some of her teachers are very good and try and support her, others just put comments in her book like you need to improve your writing. Sorry about this long post. Rant over now.Hopefully we will get some joy this afternoon

Aloha, would it be worth getting your son a baby trike or at least getting himto try one at a friends? I mean the ones with a long handle so that you could put your son's feet on the pedals and use the long handle thingy to push the trike so that he gets used to the movement of his feet and legs for the pedalling action. He may feel more secure with the movement of the trike if he is sitting down rather than having to stand up on a moving scooter. Just a thought, feel free to ignore if it isn't applicable to your son's needs but I thought it was worth mentioning as that is how we got our son onto a trike and he rides his bike with stabilisers - next summer is the dreaded 'teaching him to ride a bike without stabilers'!!

My ds is 4.8 and we are under a paed but he says its too early to diagnose dyspraxia. He does have hypotonic muscles though, which makes him a bit weaker and floppy, but it might not be a condition, just the way he is.

Aloha we bought ds2 a fimbles scooter last year because he desparatly wanted to ride his big sisters.It has 4 wheels and a low wide platform no chance of it tipping he thinks it's brilliant.
Played the annoying fimbles tune as well until I left it out in the rain a few times .

Thanks Aloha, I haven't got the email yet but I think my email seems a bit slow at the minute.

I think dyspraxia can be called Developmental Co-ordination Disorder in the States.

My ds2 is also nowhere near to riding even a trike - he can't keep his feet on the pedals even if you are pushing him. Madeleine Portwood suggests going straightaway to a proper bike rather than trying a trike, because it is easier to get momentum pushing down than in front of you.

I think there can be overlap between dyspraxia and ASD and my ds2 has been investigated by a clinical pyschologist for the latter although she decided he wasn't on the spectrum. But he definitely has difficultly with imaginative play. I think a lot of it is due to motor planning - it is hard for him to see where his game is going mentally so it tends to get stuck. He does play appropriately with toys, however rather than banging, lining up etc. I would say he shows some other autistic type behaviours e.g. very little pointing, can ignore you quite effectively when it suits him, maybe slight echolalia (not sure about that), will avoid eye contact if you are trying to get him to do something he doesn't want to. However he has no obsession with any type of routine (quite the opposite really), no ritualised behaviour, no melt-downs, and he really wants to include you and be included in things. He has quite a lot of attention seeking behaviour such as pretending he has fallen over if you are talking to his brother, and a good grasp of turn-taking (even making his toy animals take turns) which I don't think are very typically autistic behaviours.

Rambling as ever. What I am trying to say is that my Ds2 certainly has some autistic type behaviour, which could be related to dyspraxia. However as we don't have a diagnosis of dyspraxia I can't be sure and it could turn out that he has a language disorder or something else.

Meea, thanks for the tip. And Saker, that's interesting about the bike as that's exactly what dh says! I think the trikes with pushalong handles are great, but ds really wants a scooter, and he loves the fimbles so I think that's the one. Where did you buy it?
If you don't get the email I will resend it, so let me know Saker.

I'm no expert at all, Saker, but your ds doesn't sound ASD to me (FWIW, which isn't much!). I think all three year olds are capable of highly selective listening and ds also doesn't play with toys much, but I think that's partly because they involve too much motor planning (putting a train set together is a real problem, for example). He's a fiend for books though and loves poetry. He does play with his toy cooker (car boot!) and we'll be getting him some play food for Christmas.

Thanks Aloha, I'll let you know about the email. My ds1 (who definitely isn't dyspraxic) was very late to pedal and in the end we put him straight on a bike with stabilisers and he learned on that. Once he had got that he was able to apply it to trikes etc also.

It's interesting what you say about the play. Sometimes ds2 is sooooo bored but he can't think of how to do a game. He does jigsaws over and over because he can but he is always keen to do something different if I will play with him. I would be grateful for any suggestions on how to improve play skills, or suggested reading to help this.

Like your ds he loves stories, poems and songs and also loves me to make up stories about himself, particularly in a starring role at the zoo (e.g. rescuing a baby elephant etc) .

Oh God, the making up stories thing!! Aaargh. Whatever we do, no matter how dull (a trip to the park, even a two-minute conversation) has to be turned into a story with ds as hero.... The other day I actually bumped into another car because I was so distracted by ds clamouring for more dull stories.

Aloha It came from toysrus you may even be able to order one online.

LIZS, thanks for the website, and Saker thanks for telling me that it's also called Developmental Co-ordination Disorder. I googled that and a lot of stuff came up. It's also known as clumsy child symptom, and that describes my daughter perfectly.

I'm going to have a read of some of this material, and then dcide if I want to talk to her doctor about it.

Oh, I forgot to say. She just got a new pair of shoes, and insisted on getting "tying shoes" (as she called them) because she wants to learn to tie her shoelaces. She said one of her friends at school can tie her own shoelaces, and she wants to be able to as well. We've started practicing, and I think she understands the theory, but she just can't coordinate her fingers to do it.

I've explained to her that it's difficult and takes a lot of practice, but I'm not hopeful that she'll master it any time soon, and I hope she doesn't get too frustrated with it.

kateandthegirls, Sounds like your dd has a good attitude though, even though she might find it hard. ds won't even try things like shoelaces although he is starting to tie knots during play so may be he'll want to soon. He still struggles with buttons, zips and so on. Good luck woith the shoes.

saker, keep meaning to get hold of the Madeleine Portwood book, the more I read the more I can relate it to ds.

aloha, ds never successfully pedalled his trike, even though it was one of those adjustable frame/parents handle ones but could pedal a bike far better so agree with the downward pedallling theory - trouble is he just can't get the other bits going at the same time ! Think he feels out of control if he gathers speed and that causes bad temper and frustration so he won't try again. Same with roller skates, but oddly he can ski though. He is getting the hang of his scooter and just starting to glide around corners on 2 wheels.

LIZ, how old is your son? (I'm sure you've mentioned it but I don't see it on a quick glance at the thread.)

She does have a good attitude - you're right. She has terrible temper tantrums, and runs to her room, slams the door and lies sobbing on her bed like a teenager, but when she's in a good mood she is eager to do things and be "a big girl".