Help me articulate why my quiet DD with ASD needs an EHCPP

[Sickoffamilydrama]

My DD is autistic starting secondary in September, she's good at masking, she's also a people pleaser in that she's very compliant at school & always tries hard. She's also never displayed disruptive behaviour at school so flies under the radar so to speak. I think a lot of the time she's in her own world.

When she was first diagnosed 3 years ago I discussed getting an EHCP with the school SENCO & they convinced me she wasn't affected enough. She does have support at school & extra tution with a teacher from school.

However we have become more & more concerned about her ability to cope with the social & academic elements of secondary school. She can barely do simple mathematics, tell the time or write/construct more complicated sentences.

We have tried to help her but aren't specialist teachers & she often refuses to engage with us in anything that might appear to be learning! Which is fair enough she's probably exhausted at trying so hard particularly keeping everything together at school.

When she was diagnosed they did tell me she was low functioning with her cognitive abilities and re-reading the report I'm kicking myself I didn't use that to push for the EHCP in the first place, it states she will need lots.of support and may not articulate when she doesn't know something or is struggling.

Problem is I'm not sure how I articulate this to school so that they are onboard with helping us go through the EHCP.

Hmm, I may be cynical but if the diagnostic report 3 yes ago flagged there was support needed with cognitive skills, I would guess your SENCo resisted the idea of an EHCP because a) it's an awful lot of paperwork for a Senco to do snd time consuming and b) LAs frown on schools submitting EHCP requests for children who they'd financially prefer to continue flying under the radar.

But I could just be cynical!

If I were you I think I would make a parental request yourself for an EHC needs assessment. School then have to do their bit within a set timescale.

Can you afford a private EP report, if school would not arrange one? An EP report may help you a lot, Particularly if you ask for DD to get a full cognitive profile assessment which will give you hard facts about her processing, comprehension etc

Luckily she has some inheritance so yes we/she could afford an EP report privately.

Yes that is what I'm suspecting is that it was too much hassle. I'm so cross with myself that I didn't realise that years ago but then I listened to the professional educators who advised me! Also there is no support/guidance except from charities once you have a diagnosis.

I second making a parental request, IPSEA have a model letter you can use. Appeal if you are refused. The threshold for an EHCNA are a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Your posts indicate DD meets that test.

An EP assessment is part of a needs assessment. I wouldn't seek an independent EP at this stage, the LA are likely to do their own anyway, wait for if you need to appeal. Then you can target the reports to what your need - for example, you may find you need an independent SALT report instead.

Thanks clocks & bottles I've emailed the school and said we want to apply for an EHCP so if they don't agree I'll go the parental route.

Good tip off about waiting to see what is needed before going private.

I was half expecting people to say no she doesn't need one as she's not severely affected enough they convinced me it was a huge thing for kids with major needs.

Although who is to say that her needs aren't major she certainly needs a lot of support with any work she does, lockdown has helped us see how much input she needs. Although she's been a superstar & all through lock down she has been so diligent always eager to get on & do her school work even though she clearly really struggled with it.

We are in exactly the same position as you except that our DS1 is a year older than your DD, so he is at secondary school. He was diagnosed with ASD when he was 5. He too struggles socially and academically. He is well behaved at school, resists all attempts to help him to do extra work at home and school are unconcerned about him. He has an appointment for an EP assessment next month.

I hope everything goes well for you and your DD, and you can successfully get her the extra help she needs.

Thanks ruler good to know we aren't alone I hope you get a good outcome to.

And good to know that you're experiencing similar. I know I keep saying it but so annoyed with myself I didn't start pushing them earlier, but then hindsight is a great thing!

Try not to beat yourself up OP. Unsure about all the abbreviations in your post. But a lot of what you have said in your post (but not all) rings true for my DD now aged 16. In some instances she can be extremely bright. For example we bought a murder mystery escape type game for DH’s birthday. We are both degree educated and DH loves detectives and crime dramas, DS 17 is studying 4 A Levels and is highly regarded at school yet DD solved the crime first. She is also really good at creative solutions/problem solving.

In year 1 I realised she was struggling with reading compared to where my DS in the year above her. All her class teachers denied any issues or problems insisted she was middle in her class, insinuating I was imagining things and said you couldn’t compare children etc. But as you say she flew under the radar (and still does), is/was quiet, worked hard and had no behavioural issues at school and didn’t draw attention to herself. By the time she was 8 a young teacher quietly agreed with me that DD worked so hard and was concentrating so hard it really took it out on her etc. So I booked a private EP report with a local council (near to us) and sure enough she had many dyslexic traits just before the EP report I also got her eyes and ears tested. The report made little difference at primary or secondary school as she received little support at either. We also paid privately for her to have some home tuition for 45 minutes a week before starting secondary which was all DD could manage. This helped her develop some strategies. Goodness knows how she will do with her GCSE’s but unlike your DD my DD really struggled in lockdown and became quite depressed but she closes down, won’t talk about her feelings and will not accept any help whatsoever from us. Her behaviour and attitude at home is terrible worse than normal teenage behaviour.

She also struggled with the social elements at Secondary and even we really struggle to get her to hold or engage in conversation with us. Although she talks to her best friend from school on the ipad for ages and they seem quite happy in each others company.

Good luck OP.

Thank you spring it's a little unfair that there's a few kids around who it sounds like the teachers don't notice are struggling but then teachers are only human.

I don't want to be an arm chair diagnoser but have you considered getting her assessed for autism girls do get missed & she has similar traits to my DD the only reason we got her assessed was because I was more aware of autism as my nephew was diagnosed.

I had my suspicions something wasn't quite right & then she got upset as a different nephew got angry with her but she'd completely missed his very obvious body language & just couldn't get why he was upset, even when it was explained to her that's when it clicked for me & I looked at autism in girls & realised she had all of the traits.

Previously my DD was diagnosed as having dyslexia as well & at the time I was talking to the assessor about some of her behaviours before I realised she was probably autistic & I think he had suspicions but didn't say anything to me than I shouldn't get her labelled! I should have said something at the time as it's not like we got it tattooed on her forehead!

i think the issue will be that she hasnt started secondary yet, and an EHCP is usually issued when you can prove that the school cant meet the childs needs with their own budget and they would need to have a fair amount of evidence for this. I think its worth asking for a meeting with the SENCO at the new secondary before she starts and explain that she is autistic, has been on the SEN register and has a one-plan, and that you have concerns for september and whether she will cope and want them to be aware of her in case an EHCP becomes necessary, but ask what sort of support they can offer her to transition properly

Thanks Sickoffamilydrama - yes autism had crossed my mind too. I suggested counselling several times during lockdown 1 and since and I have also mentioned it but DD goes mad and will not hear of it and to persuade a 10 year old to go for an assessment is one thing but to persuade an reticent angry strong almost 6ft 16 year old to go when they are not keen is something else entirely. She has been helping her dad with some DIY today so she has been really happy. I guess I just have to hope she passes her GCSE’s (she is at the lower to middling end of the higher pathway) and keep an eye on things.

@Branleuse

i think the issue will be that she hasnt started secondary yet, and an EHCP is usually issued when you can prove that the school cant meet the childs needs with their own budget and they would need to have a fair amount of evidence for this. I think its worth asking for a meeting with the SENCO at the new secondary before she starts and explain that she is autistic, has been on the SEN register and has a one-plan, and that you have concerns for september and whether she will cope and want them to be aware of her in case an EHCP becomes necessary, but ask what sort of support they can offer her to transition properly

It sounds as if she isn't making anything like adequate progress with whatever support she is currently getting, so I would have thought there is enough evidence there.

OP, if they do decide to assess, push hard to get speech and language and occupational therapy assessments as well. You need the SALT one because ASD is a social communication disorder, and because it seems likely that her inability to construct complex sentences is around this. OT is likely to be needed if she has any motor difficulties (including things like handwriting) and in particular if she has sensory problems, e.g. sensitivity to noise, touch, taste etc.

Problem is I'm not sure how I articulate this to school so that they are onboard with helping us go through the EHCP

You don't need to luckily. All you have to do is apply for an EHC yourself. IPSEA has model letters, write a letter, alongside any reports concerning your DD for primary school and currently and just submit those in. Just tell school that your applying for one.

Honestly, parents have so much power. But not a lot of people know this, it will be great if school are on board but often the case is that their are tiresome for Senco's who have xyz million things to do and do not have the mental captivity to apply for an EHC plan for a child. Unless your child is disruptive, struggling behaviourally, they would often not make a noise/dance around your child.

My Ds's old school did not support our application and had warned us that if we applied for a EHCNA they would tell the LA it was not appropriate and all Ds's needs were being met. When we applied, they did exactly that. They couldn't even be bothered to fill in their form correctly and wrote 'don't know' for most of the answers.

Ds was granted an EHCP with barely any input from his old school. So you definitely don't need the school onboard, although it probably makes things easier.

Wow thanks all useful to know about SALT Nith she can talk fine but can't write or even think up sentences for example she had to do a report on Elephants and she really struggled to put it all together.

That's good to hear secular I've found that often when we were going through the diagnosis process that people could be very dismissive if I didn't be really clear about what we had been noticing, she presents as a shy
& slightly quirky but has good manners so as I said doesn't meet what people think autism looks like.

Thank you Punx that gives me hope all I've heard of lots of people who have had to appeal but not many successes!

Sometimes I think I am being over dramatic or seeing things that aren't there because she'll do things like remember the sky password but then had to think for a good time and count in her head to add up 2+3.

School still hasn't spoken to us apart from an initial we've got your message and will come back to you, at the weekend I'll start working through everything.

Interestingly I was talking to the health visitor today about her sibling and mentioned about DD that we were just going to apply she was shocked we hadn't been supported or even pushed by the school to apply, she was saying isn't the whole purpose to see what support they need.

It frustrates me that you have to push so much with these things I'm lucky that I have the tools/ability myself to do these things but some children don't have parents who can for whatever reason and they deserve the same opportunities.

Hello there. My DS is starting secondary in Sept. He also has a diagnosis of autism. I applied for an EHCP myself at the start of YR5 after the SENCO told me he would never get one 'as he didn't require full time support and the LEA only grants Plans to children who do'. Luckily I'd read up enough to know that this wasn't true - and also unlawful. I told her as much!

As other posters have suggested, I simply printed off the template letter from the IPSEA website and filled in a couple of sections and sent it to the LEA. And lo and behold! My son now has a Plan. (Although obviously it wasn't all plain sailing.) He sounds like he's on a similar level to your DD. He is fairly able in some subjects but has huge holes in his learning - like he can't retain the two timestable or months of the year.

You are doing a great job in supporting your DD. As you say though, the expectations of secondary school are so much higher so you're doing absolutely the right in looking at this again.

If I were you, I'd try to get through to either IPSEA or SOS!SEN Both operate free helplines. They can be hard to contact though but keep trying. I think you may need some advice about timeframes. I seem to recall that the EHCP application process takes 20 weeks (at least) - so I don't know what happens then as your DD is changing schools mid application? (I believe the LEA is allowed to discount August in the timeframe.)

Have you spoken to her class teacher by the way? We were lucky in that my DS's teacher at the time was amazing. She really saw how much he was struggling and spoke to the people who came to do the assessments and really advocated for him.

I would also echo other posters and contact the secondary SENCO asap. Some parents find that their DC are actually better supported at secondary than primary. The larger setting means there can be more lunchtime clubs and sometimes there is other types of support such as smaller maths classes. You will also get a feel for how supportive they're likely to be with the whole EHCP process.

I think for some children on the spectrum, the social and education 'gap' between them and their NT peers only becomes really noticeable as they get older so please don't feel bad. Looking back, I should have applied for a Plan for my son when he was 4!

Weirdly toomany that is similar to what the SENCO told me stupidly I didn't realise she was wrong and whilst I read around autism when she was diagnosed I didn't obviously come across anything around the support she could have.
In fairness though at the time she was diagnosed I had a toddler had just started working FT and was studying for a masters, so could have easily not have absorbed everything.

When deciding whether to carry out an EHCNA LAs should take into account upcoming transitions to secondary. Have a look at the case law on this IPSEA page.

Brilliant thanks ten

Just had an interesting conversation with the SENCO she basically said don't get your hopes up! Although I steered the conversation to make it clear that while I know the school have been supporting her she has never had her needs assessed therefore how can it be said that her needs are being fully meet.

I won't let this go now she also said the teachers are happy with her well they would be at she's a polite, compliant pupil who works hard.

Don't listen to the SENCO trying to put you off. If an EHCNA is refused appeal, the majority of appeals are upheld.

Thanks I have been told I'm rather persistent/determined a few times recently so I'll channel that!

Don't listen to the SENCO trying to put you off. If an EHCNA is refused appeal, the majority of appeals are upheld.

Totally agree. Some LAs also refuse as a matter of course then back down as soon as the parents appeal.

Information and model letter here:

www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments

www.ipsea.org.uk/making-a-request-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Thank you Ellie I've actually used their model letter.

Mmm just had a video call with the teacher and SENCO and they are still trying to put me off. They told me the threshold for assessment is really high and that she's making some progress but then that they'll support the application in any way they can.

After the call I decided to email them and have outright asked them if I'm correct in my impression that they don't believe she warrants an EHCP and to explain to me so that I can understand why they believe that. Obviously I said it politely and that I wasn't being confrontational just trying to gain understanding.

So I'm probably not the popular parent at the moment!

Sometimes it is necessary to be that parent. Children whose parents can navigate the system, know what the LA/school should be doing and hold them to account get better support. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

The threshold for a needs assessment is actually quite low.