Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Original poster

George and Sam - brilliant

97 replies

heartinthecountry · 18/10/2004 09:40

I'm sure there have been past threads about this but I just wanted to say that I have just finished reading George and Sam and I would recommend it as compulsory reading for everyone, let alone anyone who has a connection with autism or SN.

I think Charlotte Moore is inspirational. It was clear that she has accepted the 'otherness' of her sons absolutely, and that any interventions are used to make it easier for them to 'be' rather than to 'cure' them or change them. I think we all have a lot to learn from that.

OP posts:
RnB · 18/10/2004 19:50

Message withdrawn

jakbrown · 18/10/2004 19:51

Oh I didn't know that. Do tell all, heartinthecountry. I knew she had had a new baby but not that her baby had special needs.

RnB · 18/10/2004 19:53

Message withdrawn

Davros · 18/10/2004 20:12

RnB, is that you RexandBen? I agree about Let Me Hear Your Voice the first time I read it, long before I knew anything. I tried to read it again a couple of years later and found it quite puke-worthy, not the kids' stories but that praise the lord stuff! It is the thing that made me agree to attempt ABA, can you believe now that I needed persuading? (Mrs ABA bore)

Jimjams · 18/10/2004 20:25

I'm sure Catherine Maurice's children were autistic (in the same way that Georgie in The sound of silence???? the book about AIT was- for her AIT was the key). Like Davros it was the praise the lord general cheesiness stuff that put me off.

Ah India Knight- I hadn't seen the spastic thread for a few days. think I may have that book somewhere. She was being offensive about parents who think their children may be vaccine damaged recently. My friend emailed her- but no reply. I was going to but missed the original article (by one day! on the ST wbesite- wasn't going to subscribe to get it!) If anyone has a copy please can they send me a copy so I can email her.

RnB · 18/10/2004 20:31

Message withdrawn

suedonim · 18/10/2004 22:01

I must have a selective memory as I don't recall the 'praisethelord' stuff, but I read it when dd2 was at her worst for not sleeping so I blame sleep deprivation for not remembering those bits! Istr that CM's children were completely 'cured' - how often does that occur in autism, which I understood was a lifelong condition? I take it the therapy that helped was ABA? I'm really going to have to read the book again as I forget the details now.

PS I think India Knight's baby has a heart condition.

jakbrown · 18/10/2004 22:13

Sorry, didn't mean to cause offence RnB. Maybe it's the way it's written. I personally think ABA helps an autistic child fulfill his or her potential, wherever they start. But I too thought autism was a lifelong condition, so that even if a child 'learnt to learn', if you know what I mean, they would still be 'autistic'? Am I talking rubbish?!!
My DD's therapist has worked with so many autistic children who are all so different she thinks there are many different 'types'. I probably got offended by Let Me Hear Your Voice because it didn't really point out that many autistic children have severe learning difficulties and may never 'recover' in the way hers did. But then it's her personal story. And this is my personal rant!

Original poster
heartinthecountry · 18/10/2004 22:14

AFAIK India Knight's daughter does have a heart condition - she wrote about it in her column once (thought I'd kept it but can't find it) and the suggestion was that she would have further special needs. Sorry, don't know any more detail than that.

OP posts:
jakbrown · 19/10/2004 07:23

Well, that's very hard for India. I think she's turning in to one of those writers who writes to shock (like Julie Burchill).

Davros · 19/10/2004 09:51

sudonim, I didn't notice the Praise the Lord stuff the first time I read Let Me Hear Your Voice either but the second time I tried to read it, it was all I noticed!

jakbrown · 19/10/2004 10:04

Sorry, just re-read what I wrote about India and it sounds like I'm being horrible! Not at all, must be really hard for her. Subject closed!

suedonim · 19/10/2004 21:57

Oh, I really must read it again, Davros. Second impressions, huh?

Davros · 19/10/2004 22:15

Don't bother, second impression was much worse! Got my copy of Sam & George today.....

Davros · 19/10/2004 22:15

Ooops, I mean George & Sam!

Original poster
heartinthecountry · 19/10/2004 22:27

eek, you know I am going to feel horribly responsible if you hate it .

OP posts:
suedonim · 19/10/2004 22:40

Lol, Davros.

Jimjams · 19/10/2004 22:55

I think sometimes what happens especially in the States is that children who are developing along an autism etc path are picked up much earlier so they do get effective intervention. So you get these "miraculous" recoveries in certain children. Of course it's not a possibility for all children but may divert some back on the path to normal development if caught early enough. I have seen something similar occur in a friend's ds- of course he must have always had the potential to be very high functioning- but its difficult to sort out who has that at 2. I'm sure that starting ABA when ds1 was 2 would have made a HUGE difference to him and I do think that maybe we well and truly f*** up there. Maybe his potential would have been different had we, then again maybe it wouldn't have been.

Not quite sure what I'm saying but I went ontoa verbal dyspraxia website and half the children speaking on there (they had samples) sounded fine to me- much better than ds2 -and I don't really think he has problems. They were being picked up at 18 months though and given therapy 3 times a week. DS2s therapy has helped but left to the NHS he wouldn't even have been seen yet. Of course everyone says to me "ah see told you he's be fine" completely missing the point that actually I've been doing simple therapy with him since the summer and that's when he started to be able to talk properly.

I'm sure that post is clear as mud. I feel like I have a communication disorder today! I get fed up with reading miracle recovery stories. George and Sam has it right (again) when she says that some children do much better than expected and some worse- ds1 has definitely done worse than expected.

beccaboo · 20/10/2004 11:49

George & Sam was the first thing I read - and it TERRIFIED me. In fact, it's the thing that made me realise that DS could have an ASD. Until then, my ignorant idea of autism was that it was very very severe, therefore DS couldn't have it. I remembered that I'd heard Charlotte Moore being interviewed on Radio 5, so went and bought the book. Her descriptions of her boys when they were small rang quite a few alarm bells with me.

But I'm not sure I'd recommend it as first thing for a parent to read as it's really quite scary in my opinion - at least for someone who, until that point, had expected their child to grow up to lead totally average, independent life. Sam's crash scared the living daylights out of me too.

I admire Charlotte Moore though, she seems to deal with it all brilliantly and philosophically. I'm grateful to her for alerting me to gf/cf diet and to ABA, it would have taken me a lot longer to look into these things otherwise, particularly as the wheels of the NHS grind so slowly.

jakbrown · 20/10/2004 12:12

Beccaboo, ah, do you know, I hadn't thought of it like that. I read George and Sam way after dd's dx and way after I'd given up any illusion of dd living a 'typical' life! So I found it really refreshing and it struck so many chords. And dd, too, had a 'crash' so that didn't shock me. But I remember Jimjams saying she bought books and hid them under the bed and I remember reading The Siege for a work-related thing and being very uneasy as so much of it resonated with me. Had no idea dd had real 'problems' at this point, let alone the extent of them. Do you know, I actually threw it away which is an outrageous thing to do but that is how much it shook me up.

Jimjams · 20/10/2004 12:34

By the time ds1 was diagnosed I knew he was autistic anyway- and had joined online support groups etc anwyay so the idea of normal life/future was on its way out. DS1 regressed as well- although much earlier than Sam, and not as dramatically so that kind of was familiarish.

Maybe its a sign of how normal autism has become for us that I didn't see it as scary at all- I found it amusing! My mum read it and told me it would terrify the life out of MIL (who we have demanded read it!) and I didn't really know what she was talking about so its interesting to hear you say that beccaboo. MIL has read it btw but had given absolutely no comment! Will find out how much has been taken in next week. I suspect not much as when I asked whether they would need dinner on Friday evening they said "yes please" rather than "yes please but we know that you can't go to the supermarket because its half term so we'll pick something up when we're driving past". So instead am going to have to spell out that I can't go to the supermarket because its half term and I can't pick up a large 5 year old to get into a trolley at 30 weeks pregnant and stand his 2 year old brother in the trolley and push them both and actually manage to do that without having a braxton hicks festival (of course whilst stopping screaming and pinching and self harm all the way round). Sigh was hoping that having read George and Sam these sorts of things would become more obvious.

jakbrown · 20/10/2004 12:42

LOL Jimjams .
It would be so wonderful if MIL had actually read it and taken it on board. But unlikely?
The last time I took DD to the supermarket she destroyed the cereal aisle.

suedonim · 20/10/2004 20:31

Not at all muddy, Jimjams, your post was excellent, thank you. re your PIL's.

jakbrown · 20/10/2004 21:25

Sorry, hope over-the-top grin not inappropriate in last post! I just think you right with such flair and make even the darkest things amusing jimjams. Plus, I recognise so much of my situation in them.
Am getting "post anxiety" that I'm offending people!

Jimjams · 20/10/2004 21:29

Good grief you're not offending me I've been sniggering about the cereal aisle remembering my own supermarket horrors!