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SN children

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Original poster

Can the booster MMR be detrimental to an autistic child?

54 replies

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 13:29

My friend's son has been diagnosed with autism. He is non verbal at 3.5, alongside showing other autistic traits.

She is thinking of not giving him the booster MMR because she says it might make him "more autistic".

I think she is wrong - but I am no expert. Any ideas anyone?

I have my own DS aged 3.11 with me at present demanding to be played with so forgive me if I don't respond to posts straight away.

OP posts:

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 20:02

The adults were relieved not because of him but because of her - she would not sit down chat and was "policing" him the whole time, though not stopping him from doing things he ought not to have been doing. It was generally felt that the other children were more relaxed after he had left - it was almost instantaneous. They may of course have picked this up from the adults behaviour.

He does throw things and piles things up in corners, etc. It was dangerous because we had the paddling pool out last time and there was five children including a baby - he kept throwing hard things into the pool quite forcibly.

For the record I am not anti AS - two years ago a neighbours (non AS) children came to my party and she let them run riot while she sat there and did nothing - I have never invited them back. Neither am I anal about mess - I don't mind mess that occurs through play - I just don't like destructive chaos.

And youre right Gess. I have known her for a year, but every conversation lately is like a medical report on his "progress" - she even offered to show me his MRI images. I feel guilty talking to her about things DS does and I really don't know where to go from here.

OP posts:

TellusMater · 20/09/2007 20:04

Good luck with the themed activities with 3 year olds. At DD's 3rd birthday party, my lovingly prepared games, um, failed to impress

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 20:08

It will be his 4th birthday. Last year we did pass the parcel etc and dancing - it went OK. Fingers crossed for this year.

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gess · 20/09/2007 20:09

He doesn;t sound as if he has AS, he sounds as if he has autism.

I have to police ds1 everywhere we go and he;s 8. As soon as the front door is opened someone has to hold onto him. If we go anywhere (even to a friends house) he needs someone by his side the entire time. That's because other people don't have locks on windows or locks on front doors or gates that lock.

He's escaped from a friends house (whilst I was very close to him) and almost ran into a main road. Policing is a necessity. I;ve been doing it 5 years longer than your friend, and its not about to stop.

Of course she's talking about him- she's probably worried sick. This is her ltitle boy who she loves every bit as much as you love yur little boy.

Destrcutive chaos tends to go with autism.

You don't have to deal with it. It's not your child. You don't ever have to invite her anywhere ever again if you can't deal with autism. Lots of people can't. If you do want to stay involved I suggest you read up on it. Lots of posts on here, or something like George and Sam by Charlotte Moore is a very readable introduction to the breadth of the spectrum and the emotions that go with it. If you don't mind me saying you sound way off course at the moment. You don't sound as if you're 'getting it' at all.

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 20:12

Sorry am I getting my abbreviations mixed up - I just assumed AS ment Autistic Spectrum

OP posts:

TotalChaos · 20/09/2007 20:13

it's a very hard, worrying and lonely time, when you are coming to terms with your child having special needs. She is almost certainly spending a very lot of time worrying about the diagnosis and her child's future - so it's no wonder that she keeps on bringing up her child's diagnosis/prognosis etc in conversation.

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 20:15

Yes Gess I am "way off course" and "not getting it", rather in the same way I would be if I woke up and found I had no arms and legs - because it has never happened to me. I don't see that as a flaw in my personality, rather as a reflection of my lack of experience.

OP posts:

mymatemax · 20/09/2007 20:15

ds2 has poss ASD & hasn't had the MMR booster. I don't believe the MMR has caused his problems he suffered brain damage as he was very premature, he also has CP.
BUT because I know he has bowel problems & poss ASD I just don't want to risk it when there are (i believe) some children that are damaged by the vaccines.
As some of the others have said its about weighing up what you believe to be the risk taking your childs individuality into account.
DS1 had all vaccines & is NT.

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 20:19

Yes totalchaos, and I empathise and I listen but I can't make it better. I really am at a loss as to what I am supposed to do - this is not a reciprocal relationship - I don't know what to say to her. What would you like someone to say to you?

OP posts:

TotalChaos · 20/09/2007 20:22

I'm not suggesting you make it better, just cut her a bit of slack for harping on about her DS. In my experience, what makes me feel better is a balance between talking about non-kid related subjects - books/films etc, and an acknowledgment that I am in a stressful situation.

essbeehindyou · 20/09/2007 20:38

Message withdrawn

gess · 20/09/2007 20:40

Well the people who remained my friends let me talk about it, and discussed it as it was rather a big thing that was happening (lifelong condition, comimg to terms with the fact my child was going to need lifetime care, will probably never talk etc). There were plenty who avoided us or who never used the A word and I don't see them anymore.

gess · 20/09/2007 20:45

I don't understand what you mean by 'this is not a reciprocal relationship', When my friend's son died she talked. We talked a lot. We talked about her son. We talked about her grief. I couldn;t begin to make it better. How could I the most awful thing had happened to her. Nothing could happen that would be more awful.

What your friend is going through is similar although less intense than the loss of a child (one reason my friend said I was easy to talk to was because I 'got it" because of ds1). She will be grieving the loss of what she thought she had, whilst not even knowing where she is headed. She's probably (poor cow) still trying to do 'normal' things then almost dying with grief when they don't work.

Of course you can't make it better.

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 21:03

I'm struggling with this, I really am. It's not that I don't want her to talk about his ASD. But it's the way she says he's done this or that today almost as "proof" that he will get better. There is a place in Eastern Europe or somewhere like that where they supposedly "cure" autism and she wants to take him there.

Funnily enough - I can accept his ASD and relate quite well to him non-verbally - in ways that she is often shocked by because she herself doesn't "get it". DS knows about autism (there is a great book called "My friend Sam" which I read to him)but at 3.11 still finds it frustrating - I guess as great as the book is, it wasn't written by a 3 year old.

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twocutedarlings · 20/09/2007 21:11

The reason why she is looking for reasons why her DS doesnt have is ASD is because at this stage she is probabley still in denial, i did this with my DD, i actually felt that if i admitted it to myself then i would be maybe temtping fate.

There is also no known cure for ASD.

gess · 20/09/2007 21:11

I think denial typical. Of course she's hanging on for things that will show that he'll get better. I still search for things that will improve ds1's condition after 6 years of living with autism (I don't want to cure him but I'd love him to be able to communicate freely). I still cling onto things that he does (he's started to spell out his name- I am enormously excited). She hasn't written him off yet.

What does your ds find frustrating about it? You probably need to intervene in any games. DS3 absolutely loves playing with his autistic friend (not ds1, I'm talking about somenoe closer in age to him). He asked today to go and play with him, but all their games are shadowed.

gess · 20/09/2007 21:13

How do you want her to behave? She has to police him, she probably always will. She sounds desperately worried, that will probably decrease, but not for a while, she's always going to be looking at therapies that might help.

Tell her to google Treating Autism and join the forum. A great place to start investigating interventions (both biomedical and educational).

coppertop · 20/09/2007 21:21

Try to see it from your friend's point of view. She has been told that her little boy has autism. When she goes out anywhere with him people look at her because she has to police him so much. When she can't stop him from doing something people get annoyed with her, and even her own friends feel relieved when she and her little boy leave. When she tries to talk to her friends about her concerns they think she's talking rubbish. When she researches ways to help her little boy they think she's being unrealistic. And to top it all off even her friends are excluding her son from parties. Poor woman.

Original poster

TartWithAHeart · 20/09/2007 21:29

DS and FDS like playing screaming games and jumping up and down on the bed and that's all really. They do play-doh at the same table but not together as such. DS doesn't usually want to go to their house, when I say lets go round to ?'s, but when he's there he enjoys playing with the toys and wants FDS to join in.

Looking at what you have read gess, it seems like things could remain as they are where my friend is concerned - always hoping for some +ive developments.

It is difficult to explain what i meant by the reciprocity comment in light of the comments I have read about how hard it is to have a SN child.

OP posts:

gess · 20/09/2007 21:36

~Of course she's going to hope for positive developments. Otherwise she's be throwing herself off the neareset cliff What else is she meant to do? And she'll get them. I'm still celebrating ds1 learning to imitate after 8 years, and its made an enormous difference to him. It might not seem a big thing to some but the people who had stayed the distance with us understand that it;s enormous.

gess · 20/09/2007 21:38

Can I suggest you watch this 13 minute movie (don't bother with the trailer just scroll down to the movie). autism every day It might help you understand what your firend's life is like now and for the future.

TotalChaos · 20/09/2007 21:45

you do end up celebrating the small improvements, all the things language wise/communication wise etc that NT children seen to catch onto almost by osmosis feel like and are a big achievement to the parent of a child with ASD and/or significant speech problems.

deeeja · 20/09/2007 22:05

Hi, I have just come across this thread.
My son has been diagnosed as gdd with autistic tendancies, although highly likely he is autistic. I have not stopped thinking about it for one second of the day, and if anyone has tried to have a conversation with me, that is what I end up talking about. I have also talked about all the things that ds has been able to do, all the insignificant things that are meaningless to those with nt kids. My ds had all his vacs, and now I wish he hadn't. I found this thread because I have been thinking about this topic, and have chatted with my sister about it alot. She has listened and is concerned (as you would expect), and is such a comfort to me. Some of my so-called friends are treating me as though I am a loony and distressing my ds by trying to 'act normal' towards him by speaking directly and close to his face, and trying to hug him; the others either don't know what to say, or think it is not that bad becuase it is not a 'real disability'.
So you see, when you find some-one who will let you talk about your child's asd, it is such a great relief.
Sorry for going on,

coppertop · 20/09/2007 22:08

Don't apologise, Deeeja.

gess · 20/09/2007 22:12

No don't apologise. The early days are bloody difficult. Awful. It does get better though. Do you have anyone locally in the same situation- it really helps. I have one friend just around the corner who has a severely autistic child. I think we talk every day. And if either of us needs to rant we ring each other.

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