Nursery concerns - worried and confused

[TippetyTapWriter]

Hi, don't really know where to start with this, just feeling very confused and worried.

Ds (3y 8m) started nursery in September doing his 15 free hours. Within a couple of weeks they asked us in for a meeting and said they had some concerns. He was basically unable to cope with other children, with transitions, with routine and was having huge meltdowns over everything. They put some strategies in place e.g. a now/then chart and egg timer and said they'd keep an eye on it. Recently had another meeting to review. Things have improved slightly but he's unable to cope if they withdraw the strategies and is unable to take turns or share with other children, not interested in playing or making friends, lacks eye contact, is controlling and wants everything on his own terms, and is very literal and unimaginative. They brought someone in to see him who agreed and he has now been referred to the local SEN type service.

But he's not like this at home or with me. He never has meltdowns except for what feels like normal whingy threenager stuff. He's absolutely fine with transitions. Totally fine with eye contact. He loves going to new places, is fine with changes of plans. Gets sarcasm and humour and facial expressions. Loves supermarkets, busy cities etc. Doesn't seem sensitive to any sensory stuff though he does like to chew on toys. He's really imaginative and creative. Always coming up with his own songs and stories and play scenarios etc. He was a bit high needs as a baby, a bit quirky, super smart, obsessed with trains (also fascinated by lots of other things), a bit unruly and boisterous. But very social, interested in other children though clearly a bit clueless at trying to play with them. I always put this down to lack of practice as I've never managed to make mum friends and arrange play dates (I have social anxiety, cue massive mum guilt!).

Of course everything nursery are saying sounds like ASD though they are tying themselves in knots to avoid saying so (which I understand as he has no diagnosis and they can't diagnose). But there's no explanation from them why they think he's struggling or what I need to. He will have another assessment but I couldn't work out what happens next. They haven't mentioned any sort of diagnosis being required but they have said he won't cope at primary school without new strategies and extra funding for classroom support. Surely school won't do any of that without a diagnosis? I'm just going in circles wondering if he does have ASD. If he does I want to know. Perhaps that's the next step after this second assessment though they didn't say so.

Don't really know what I'm asking. But I guess: what should I be doing? Is there anything I can do to help him socially etc? Has anyone been through this and how did it turn out?

He's such a smart, funny boy. It's so hard to imagine he'll struggle at school :(

My son was diagnosed at age 5 and is doing very well now at age 9 thanks to the support he gets from school.

When he was younger - age 5 to 7 - he would often get very upset in the classroom or occasionally push people when he felt threatened. He gradually improved every year and now the worst that happens is that once every 2 or 3 weeks he might get a small bit upset about something but is learning strategies to manage his emotions. When he was younger he would explode and lose control but now he is a bit more mature he is being taught more appropriate ways to behave. If he feels upset in the classroom now he requests to take a break to calm down and returns a short time later and gets back to work.

Some things you mention like good eye contact and understanding facial expressions might indicate there is autism but are not requirements for it. This comic strip explains the idea of the spectrum clearly - themighty.com/2016/05/rebecca-burgess-comic-redesigns-the-autism-spectrum/

Don’t feel guilty about not bringing him to meet other children as at his age it is enough that he spends time with you and goes to nursery. My son still finds it a bit harder to make friends but his school have said he is becoming a lot more sociable and interacting a lot more with the other children.

ds2 has a diagnosis of autism since the age of 8. He loved nursery, and they had no real concerns about him there, except that he didn't play with things the way he was supposed to. But as it was a very "pure" Montessori nursery with no "toys" but with drama and music, they weren't allowed to interfere with the way he played in his free time. So for example instead of piling the bricks into towers he would turn the bricks into long lines and use them as imaginary trains. Which wasn;t the way they were meant to be used!

I now look back and realise the very formal, very structured Montessori approach, with the four areas of learning, was absolutely perfect for ds1. He used to walk there before, so had plenty of exercise when he arrived, and loved concentrating on all the new activities and was able to calmly focus and not be bothered by the other children, who were also, mostly, calmly focusing on self selected activities or structured learning.

So I suppose I am saying the wrong nursery would have been hell for ds1. A nursery full of children playing imaginatively and running around would have been sensory overload for him. As it was, there weren't that many children and lots of adults paying attention to him and he was extremely well behaved. And most of the other children were very well behaved too, which he liked. So the environment of nursery might be making all the difference to your ds. The environment you have at home is perfect for him and the nursery environment is a shock to his system.

When my son went to a much bigger noisier class in Reception he found it much more difficult to cope, and had to go half days. He had no diagnosis or SNs suspected at this point, but he couldn't cope with full days till 3pm. The minute he came home he would play beautifully again. The quiet, the 1:1 were enough to return him to tranquillity and the interactive communicative little boy I loved.

I suppose the answer is, you are providing a perfect environment for his needs at the moment and maybe nursery is not a good fit for now. Perhaps, try to invite one child over for a short play, see what happens, or find a playgroup which allows him to meet children whilst you are there. Perhaps a music group or a soft play or swimming lessons. All these things my son loved, but he did love nursery, but it was the RIGHT nursery. He went term time 3 hours in the morning for 2 years.

My son is doing very very well at the moment and has a nice friendship group now, he is studying for A levels. I do think that my early life with him helped him, and my "spoiling" him helped him rather than hindering him. Forcing a child out of their comfort zone at that age is very counterproductive. Yes, he may have ASD but it doesn;t mean he is not the wonderful child you know, he still is. But it is helpful to know what things help and hinder, and recognising what the difficulties are is not misreading his true nature.

But you have put your finger on the matter, when you said he is different. Because your home environment is different to nursery.

My first thought is: is this the right setting for him? He doesn't sound very happy there. Would somewhere smaller and quieter, or a CM, suit him better? Has he had his hearing and eyesight checked recently?

My son had two siblings, and a twin too, so he was always in the house with other children, but this didnt make his social communication difficulties any less and he actually found his siblings quite difficult to get on with as time went by. But he did love drama and music and climbing, walking, trains and those things tend to lead you to socialise, eventually. Sport came very late as a sociable activity, perhaps 9 or 10 before that team games were very difficult for him to cope with, and he got very upset about winning or losing. So it can a while to develop the same skills as other children, but he has got there in the end, and now a devoted Football fan, going off by himself with his friends to football stadiums all over London, aged 16, on public transport. But that has been through a slow process of developing his independence and developing friendships where we had to help him perhaps far longer than other teens might have been helped.

So please please don't feel angry and upset and guilty, he is going to turn out brilliantly and it is certainly not because you haven't organised playdates that he is experiencing difficulties. .sometimes it can be wiring.

I re-read your post again, and what jumps out at me is that he is actually anxious at nursery. That is why he is having meltdowns and trying to control everyone. It IS social anxiety. We've all felt it as adults and he is feeling it even more. because he is only three and has no power whatsoever. You are the person he feels safe with, and you've gone.

Thanks for the responses and reassurance everyone. It's nice to hear stories of older kids doing well.

I feel in a very weird space where I have no idea of the scale of the problem or what to expect from the future. He seems so normal to me! Yes, never the typical child, but just in the way dh and I and my wider family aren't "normal" - we're all a bit geeky, nerdy, nature-loving, vaguely antisocial/introverted mild hippy types! And I've always just assumed ds was the same. So it's hard to adjust to this idea that he's not even going to be able to cope with everyday life. I spend half the time not believing it and the other half imagining worse case scenarios in which his life is really restricted.

We went to the park a few times recently and both times there were children his own age he went over and tried to play. But I know he doesn't do it quite 'right'. He stands too close and tells them his name loudly while looking over their shoulder or past them, and he's almost vibrating with eagerness and excitement! Then when they do start trying to play with him he's normally gone off and started doing something else. I see other kids e.g. jumping in a puddle saying 'Splash! Stomp!' and ds will be jumping in the puddle saying 'Will all the water in this puddle go into the river Thames and eventually into the ocean? And in topsy turvy land are the puddles made of sand and the deserts made of water?'

He's definitely very bad at sharing toys. He has a little sister and they just screech at each other the whole time. He is good at sharing food though and if prompted will quite happily give her things, even if he's hungry and it's something he really likes. He made-believe a pet horse, house and supermarket today at the park and invited me and dd around for tea etc, all completely unprompted by me. I find it strange nursery say he's unimaginative!

Sorry I'm just going on and on but I've spent months now analysing everything he does!! Do I just wait for this assessment? I'm wary of going to the HV as I've never found them much help and I suppose the gp would just refer to the service nursery have already done. The waiting and not knowing what's really going on is hard!

In relation to imaginative play - is he behaving differently in nursery so they don’t see that side of him?

My 9 year old who has autism has a very strong imagination - as do many people with autism. My son loves make-believe and makes complex games involving magical creatures. He is almost a bit too imaginative and gets very lost in his ideas and would be upset if I said the things he created in his mind weren’t real.

My son also seemed fine at home - quite easy to deal with - we never noticed he had autism until he started school and found it hard to manage with the demands and the chaos. In hindsight I realise there was signs of autism before he started school but nothing that significant.

I would have said this about my son too:
Totally fine with eye contact. He loves going to new places, is fine with changes of plans. Gets sarcasm and humour and facial expressions. Loves supermarkets, busy cities etc

I think it is quite usual for behaviour to be different between school/preschool and home. It is certainly true for my DS. He was diagnosed with autism last year and is at preschool, starting school this September. The specialist teacher who assessed him at the end of last year both at home and in preschool commented on how different he is in each setting. At home he is much more communicative and engaged, whereas he finds preschool overwhelming.

If you take transitions for example, at home I realised it was instinctive for me to talk to DS directly and warn him about going out (“DS, in five minutes we are going to go to the shops”). At preschool though instructions tend to be called out (“Tidy up time!”) and although it is implied the instruction is for everyone it isn’t specifically stated. Add in the fact that it is quiet at home, so it is easier to process instructions, but at preschool it is noisy and busy, so he might not have even heard the instruction in the first place!

I know it doesn’t feel like it now, but it is really positive that preschool have been on the ball and requested assessment. You’ll have a much better idea of his needs and be able to get support. Areas vary a lot, but in mine you are referred to the Early Support team and then if felt appropriate appointments with Paediatrician, SALT and specialist teachers etc. Support should be based on need not diagnosis. Do preschool have an ICP in place? It would also be worth asking at the next assessment about applying for an EHCP, since they mentioned extra funding. If the support needed requires additional funding an EHCP is the only way to guarantee it.

Also, ask about transition to school. I assume DS will start this September? Again in our area, the Early Support team help with this and organise a meeting with the school. You can always contact the school SENCO directly to discuss support and what needs to be in place.

It does get easier, but the waiting is incredibly hard. I found reading about autism and neurodiversity really helpful. Everything can seem so negative. It isn’t this terrible thing though, it is a different way of seeing the world. Your son sounds absolutely lovely btw

Thanks again. It's really interesting to hear other people's experiences. I probably sound like I'm trying to deny there's anything wrong - I'm not, I'm just trying to make sense of what it is and the extent of it etc. And I am grateful for it being picked up and acted on. It's just weird at the moment because the 'it' is unknown. If ASD was openly being spoken of I could start coming to terms with it but all that's being said is that he struggles with certain things, with no explanation why. I know I just have to wait for this next assessment but I'm in limbo land at the moment.

Stating the obvious but I just want him to be happy. I see scenarios where he can be himself and thrive and scenarios where he can't fit in at school etc and ends up miserable and demoralised. He's just so full of energy and life and excitement and ideas. I'm so scared it's going to get quashed somehow because these other difficulties will make life too hard.

I might ask to stay one morning at nursery and see how he is there. To be honest when I go in to collect him I find the racket and chaos unpleasant, like someone is beating a tin drum on my head, so if he's like me he probably finds it hard too. If I do online checklists for women with Aspergers etc I meet about 70-80% of it (though I don't think I have it, or if I do it's so mild as to be negligible) but it really wouldn't suprise me if he has traits. What I can't get my head around is this mental image of him not being able to cope at school and having huge meltdowns etc. It's just so far removed from how he seems, or from what I've ever imagined. Poor boy. He's so lovely :(

Have you asked them if they think he might have ASD? If they are avoiding using the words it might be easier if you introduce it first. I am a SENCo in primary and I know how delicate it is when talking about people’s children. But if someone straight out asked me I would be honest and that would open the doors to more frank discussions.
It’s a very difficult time having to wait and not know exactly what you are waiting for. However the positive is that if there are signs that your DS might find the classroom difficult, it has been highlighted early and support and strategies can start to be put in place. If it turns out he is just not adjusting to this particular setting for whatever reason that will come out too and he may thrive when he goes to school. Good luck with whatever happens next

You don’t sound like you are trying to deny anything at all. You sound confused and it is very confusing. Autism can present in so many different ways. I can remember, with DS, flip flopping between he definitely is and maybe he isn’t for ages. My experience as well has been that generally professionals don’t mention autism outright, even if that is what they think. It is a very fine line to tread, particularly if a parent isn’t yet ready to hear it. However, it really doesn’t help when you are trying to connect the dots and asking questions and all you get back are vague replies.

What helped to pull me out of limbo was when I realised that nobody had ever said we don’t think he is autistic. We were always referred on for further assessment, even when I was still in denial and painting a rosy picture. We were offered playgroup sessions and a parenting course for children with social communication difficulties. You get the picture, no one was saying it outright, but reading between the lines it was as plain as day.

I think we would all love a crystal ball too if it was possible regarding school and the future. All parents worry, but when SEN are suspected it just feels that the stakes are higher. You become horribly aware how easily things could go wrong. It is getting the understanding and support in place that will make the difference though and allow a child to thrive. You are already on the right track and in the best possible position to get/push for support.

You sound like you are where I was a couple of years ago (right down to scoring high on the online checklists for female autism myself). DD was Dxed about a year ago now after a couple of years of "is she? isn't she?" and honestly the limbo is by far the worst part. If you can get through this you'll be just fine from here on in. I was also in denial in that limbo period really because DD was so like me that I couldn't see that maybe things I thought were "normal" were actually a bit different to her peers (and although I struggled as a teen and was always socially immature and anxious, it's not caused me any real problems in my life - I've just engineered my life to fit my personality and all is good). Over time, like Magic, I realised that although lots of people said "it's too soon to tell" and "let's see how she gets on over the next 6 months" nobody actually ever said "I'm confident she isn't autistic". It would be worth getting experts involved though because as you say nursery can't Dx and whichever way it goes knowing is better than not knowing.

In the mean time it does sound like it might not be the right setting for him ... are there other options around? Maybe somewhere smaller/quieter or more structured? As others have said, needing control/not being able to share/melting down are all signs of anxiety. You might actually find school (once he gets there) suits him better as it's more predictable. Certainly I think my DD has been happier at school and likes knowing "on a Thursday we do this, at lunchtime I do this" etc.

As others have said, even if it is autism it's not the stereotype. The fact he is so engaged and happy with you at home is a brilliant sign, as it means you already know that in the right environment he can thrive. We've found as DD has got older she can tolerate (and in fact enjoy) a wider range of environments. I'm sure there'll be bumps along the way (not looking forward to teenage years, which I struggled with...) but overall I'm very optimistic.

Can you ask nursery if they suspect ASC and if so, would the avenues they are pursuing lead to Dx? If not (or if you're not sure/not confident) I would ask them to write a letter setting out what they see and take it to your GP and ask to be referred for assessment.

In terms of resources you can already explore yourself, I really like the Stuart Shanker Self-Reg website. It has some good printables that might be useful for nursery (e.g. "behaviour is communication") YouTube is a fantastic resource (I'd start with autistic adults like Purple Ella, Connor Ward, AspieWorld and Invisible i and go from there). Twitter can be helpful using the #askingautistics hashtag. Jessie Hewitson has a book called "How to raise a happy autistic child" that I hear good things about (but keep failing to get around to reading myself!) Neurotribes is brilliant if you want to understand autism better (including the positives) though it does the whole history of autism (including holocaust era) so it's not an easy read in parts.

As you say, you don't even know if he is autistic yet. But I suspect even if he's not the struggles he's having at nursery probably mean he has some autistic traits, so learning about them and how to parent around them will likely be a very good investment of your time even if you find out in the end that he isn't autistic. The fact you have some of those traits yourself will put you in a brilliant position to do that. I often find that when DD's behaviour boggles others I often can just feel where she is coming from and why she is upset/anxious... it seems obvious to me but I know my OH can be really shocked by some of it because it just doesn't occur to him that those things could be difficult - e.g. why it is horrible to go into a new small crowded shoe shop and try on shoes (and therefore how to make it less horrible) is obvious to me, but not at all to him.

But I suspect even if he's not the struggles he's having at nursery probably mean he has some autistic traits, so learning about them and how to parent around them will likely be a very good investment of your time even if you find out in the end that he isn't autistic.

This is so true. I have two DS’s and my eldest is to all intents and purposes NT (although I am keeping a close eye!). He is very social, doing well at school, but he does have traits. Learning about autism has really helped me to spot them and guide him through.

We recently bought a new car and when DS1 saw it at home he asked “Why is there no writing on the side?”. I was bit confused and then remembered that DH had shown him a picture of it from the dealer website and yes, details about the car had been written on top of the image. I was able to explain literal thinking to him and that he wasn’t silly (his words) it was just the way his brain had processed the information and lots of people think in the same way.

Thank you so much everyone for all your replies. It's been a lot for me to take onboard this week but it's so helpful to know there are people who understand. Thank you for all your kind words and reassurances.

myname no I've not directly asked though I probably should have. Social anxiety and fear about the answer make asking a direct question hard! I did lead in that direction though. I asked if they thought there was an underlying cause for his behaviour, if I should go to the gp etc but they avoided the first and said no to the latter. I will see what the next assessment shows. I may also ask if there could be an element of sensory seeking, as I've thought for a long time he might have this - he is always running, hopping, jumping, crashing into the sofa, massively prefers crunchy food, chews toys and clothes, scrapes along walls when we walk outside, uses crayons so hard they snap etc etc. But as it just seemed 'him' and not something that was causing any problems or upset I've not bothered to explore further. I'm very wary of self-diagnosing stuff over the internet especially as I probably have a degree of (self-diagnosed!) health anxiety!

lighttripper that all sounds very familiar! (Right down to having arranged my life to suit and troubles at school.) I've always thought that ds's differences just felt like personality rather than an issue if that makes sense. But maybe what seems normal and understandable to me isn't to others. I think I can probably ward off a lot of the meltdowns/upsets he's having at nursery because I just know what he will and won't like etc.

There isn't another suitable setting I can get to (can't drive). I think this one is quite good. They have a lot of space and only about 15-20 children so it's not that busy. The staff are very lovely and caring. I do feel they are doing the best they can. That said, ds himself doesn't particularly like it there. He goes without resistance every morning and runs happily into the room but I know he'd prefer to be with me doing something else. But I feel he does need the preparation for school.

I'm not sure school being more structured will help. He gets bored so easily. This is one of the things that makes me question possible ASD because he dislikes doing the same thing over and over. E.g. he will ask (demand!) to go a different route home from nursery because he's bored, wants to explore, has spotted a crane of the horizon and wants to find the building site etc. He is 'controlling' I suppose because he wants to just do exactly what he wants to do whenever he wants to do it. He's basically able to entertain himself all day long. He'll tip out the recycling, find himself some cardboard, improvise a step from a stack of books to get the sellotape, help himself to a snack of cereal from the box while he's there, go off and build whatever contraption/machine he's got in mind ... I think he just doesn't understand the 'point' of other people when he's quite capable of doing things exactly how he wants. But he'll still come and get me to show me what he's made or if he does need help with something. I think the ideal school for him would be an engineers workshop with a large box of snacks on hand ... he'd be happy for hours!

He sounds amazing - I was smiling just reading your description!

You are right that this doesn't sound very typical for ASD but ASD can cooccur with ADHD (and there are also obviously lots of kids with those kind of traits who don't need a diagnosis of anything).

DD is a mixture - she does like going different routes to school but they all have different names and she likes choosing which one. She rarely wants the same book twice but does like watching the same TV shows again.

It might be worth looking into some of the Self-Reg stuff and sharing it with nursery? Things like "now and next" might also help with anxiety. If you know what distracts him and relaxes him at home maybe they can try some of the same things at nursery? It's great that they are engaged anyway - hopefully they'll be able to work with you to make it a more rewarding experience for him.

There's an excellent book called The Out of Sync Child has Fun (sequel to the Out of Sync Child) which goes through all the sensory strategies; from backpacks to wheelbarrows. I wish I had read it when ds2 was younger, it would have explained why sometimes what we did with him worked wonderfully, and sometimes didn't. This is in response to what you said about him jumping onto sofas etc. All entirely normal in our household, and I just assumed this is what ALL children did, needed to do. But found that it was an element of sensory seeking, sensory avoidance that is part of Asd and Adhd profile.

Thanks lighttripper. He is lovely and also extremely hard work at times!

Thanks for the book recommendation nettle. I will check it out.

I had one of those days this morning where I spent the first half sanguine and convinced everything would be ok and the second catastrophising.

One trait I'm fairly certain he has is a lack of understanding unwritten social rules. Wherever we are he's the one kid doing the thing no other kid is going. He'll walk straight through groups of people having a conversation. Sit down on people's picnic blankets and help himself to their food. Take phones out of people's pockets. He climbed onto someone's knee in a cafe the other day to get a better look at the board game they were playing. We went to a soft play that's attached to a bowling ally and within minutes he'd got through the barrier, run down the lane and was trying to get inside the pin machine. It sounds really naughty written down but the thing is he doesn't seem to understand why none of that is the 'right' thing to do. He wants to do it, so it makes sense to him to do it. I could excuse it more last year when he was younger but it's not improving!

Hi I’ve never written on here before but I just wanted to say I am in a very similar boat to you, and I think you have got it exactly right when you say that the worrying thing is you don’t know the scale of the problems your son may face, and that like you, one minute I’m full of optimism and then the next thinking of all kinds of worse case scenario’s and beside myself with worry!!
My little boy is 3y4m, and, like yours he is doing 15 hours at preschool and didn’t do much in the way of socialising beforehand, which I initially also thought was the problem (I’ve come to realise that it can’t be) He is also is our first born, so it wasn’t until he started preschool it became clear he is a bit different to the other kids. Like yours he is our absolute pride and joy, is so funny, very cheeky and quirky, but has definitely never been an ‘easy’ child.
My boy has good days and not so good days at preschool, he has yet to talk to the other children but is starting to tolerate them playing near him, finds it hard to take turns if they want to play with the same toy. He finds it hard to sit still and listen during group time, and wants to do his own thing all the time. He often ignores people (including me and my husband) when they call him. His eye contact is fine with us; ok with family; poor with adults at preschool and non-existent with other children. He struggles with conversations, and when he has tried to play with other kids (our friends children or at the park) he tries to hug and touch them all the time or singles one out and ignores the others.. ditto problems with unwritten social rules- mine has run down bowling alley too, and yep, he now looks big enough to know better!!
He has always been very clever with numbers and has started reading lots of different words and starting to sound words out using phonics. He amazes me what he can do!
He is also constantly jumping on sofa/ bed, he flicks his fingers when excited and walks on tiptoes.
My husband accepts he has ‘areas we need to work on’ but gets upset if I use the term ‘autism’ ..I have come to accept that’s what it is- to me he just completely fits the bill as far as I can see.
He is going to be observed by the area senco and I’m chasing an appointment with a health visitor.
Sorry for massive post, just wanted to say your not alone and best of luck to you.

Hi Raa, thanks so much for posting. That all sounds exactly like ds! Can't believe yours has run down a bowling alley too!!

I'm still finding it hard to accept really. Half-term was good, we had a nice time, though we went on one play date and he had a lovely time playing with toys but completely ignored everybody. But in the park he was a bit more interested. He seems better if there is just one child around. When it's just me and him I think he's the most normal boy in the world!

We've been doing loads of practicing sharing and turn taking with his sister. She's only 1 but we role play what she might say or think and suggest to ds what he might say or do etc. It's worked a tiny bit. He used to just screech and snatch but now he will 'use his words' and say eg 'no dd I am playing with that'. Then screech two seconds later ...

Is your ds bad at listening? Mine has always been rubbish but recently it seems deliberate. He will just talk and talk and I can hardly even make myself heard over him without shouting, which I obviously don't want to do!

Ds is also interested in numbers and letters. He's been able to recognise them all since before 2 though he can't read yet. He can do simple mental arithmetic e.g. 3+2 or 2x3 in his head. Sometimes I wonder if he's just one of those smart quirky kids but I think the social issues and impulsivity and running into the sofa etc suggest there's more to it.

Good luck to you all. It will be interesting to hear how you get on if you want to share xx

Hi Tippety, sorry it’s taken ages to reply..
You asked about listening- yes my boy is rubbish at it- well I think he takes everything in, but never ‘appears’ to be listening unless he is really interested and will only choose to respond on his terms! He just ignores you if he’s not interested in what your saying, although I have to say this has got a lot better recently.. With saying hello or goodbye I have to kneel down and prompt him quite a lot..
From what you describe, it sounds like your little one is a lot better at talking than mine tho, mine doesn’t really do ‘conversation’ as such, well not as you would expect I suppose, he is constantly asking me to read things for example, but if i asked him what he did at school I would be met with a wall of silence!! ..on a side note, I’m also having a nightmare with toilet training - he doesn’t seem bothered about being wet and again it’s all very much on his terms!! How was that for you? if your little one found it easy I would love some tips!!
I’ll keep you posted on how I get on with senco / health visitor and would be great to hear how you get on with everything too xx

Oh and forgot to say that tippety that’s really impressive how your little one does arithmetic! Clever boy! Also, he sounds just lovely, try not to worry I’m sure he will do amazingly .. if it helps, I am always telling myself to just enjoy my beautiful quirky little man, and not to worry about problems in his future which I cannot possible predict!! Xx

..And sometimes I manage to follow my own advice lol xx

So it's hard to adjust to this idea that he's not even going to be able to cope with everyday life

DS has autism. I wouldn't say he struggles with everyday life. He certainly has some struggles (e.g. his school don't understand how to help him, he's not enjoying school despite being very bright) but in "everyday life" he's a bright 10 yr old boy who's great company, kind, affectionate and very funny. Smarter than most of his peers and some of his teachers! He doesn't have loads of friends but does have a couple of really good friends.

My mum is on the spectrum. She was very successful in her career, and is now enjoying a well paid retirement. She' s rubbish at small talk or paying attention to subjects that don't interest her, and it made our relationship difficult when I was younger. But I can't say she struggles in everyday life.

If your wonderful son is on the spectrum It's best you know sooner than later so you can learn about how to support him. But I agree with others, help him find a setting that works for him. Much better than trying to force him into something that doesn't.

Thanks for replying Raa. Funnily enough I was going to ask about potty training as we are having a nightmare. Tried at 3 with no luck, then again at 3.4 and he got it OK, though with lots of prompting and cajoling to get him to actually go. Then he was going almost independently for a bit. Now it's back to having to make him go. But he's completely regressed with poos. He used to try to get to the toilet, now he doesn't even try, and this week he's stopped even telling me that he's done it. Driving me mad to be honest. No idea what to do! We're going to print out Poo Goes to Pooland this weekend and try that!

Yes ds isn't great at hello/goodbye. Depends what mood he's in. Sometimes he'll do it spontaneously and happily but often he ignores me or quite often if I say hello etc he'll say 'Don't say that.' He does that a lot actually, e.g. if I go into his room 'Don't come in here'. But other times he's fine. Totally seems to depend on mood?

Yes language wise he's probably a bit ahead. I sometimes wonder if that's why he's not interested in peers but in my heart of hearts I think it's more than that. He's not completely disinterested in others but he's far less aware or interested than other kids. His younger sister is way more socially aware etc. She watches people, doesn't push past them, copies them, etc. Ds might watch what they were playing with then just try to take it off them! But he's aware in other ways. E.g. we were on a walk and dd kept veering off the path into the field. He noticed, was worried about her, asked me if she was lost, called her name and asked her to go back on the path, then when she didn't he went over took her hand and led her back to the path. So it's not like he's oblivious.

Thanks howmanybiscuits. It's nice to hear about your son. He sounds lovely. I think what I meant was that it was hard to imagine what the nursery were saying at the meeting about him not being able to cope with school. It was such a shock. Now it's sunk in I can see what they mean. When he's in one of his highly strung moods I can see he might have a meltdown at school with all the demands and restrictions. He so much just wants to do his own thing his own way. He's going to find it hard to wait and listen. To be honest I think he'll struggle to stay in the room. I can imagine him just walking out because it's suddenly occurred to him that there might be something more interesting happening elsewhere!

As you both say I am trying to just enjoy him. He's definitely individual :) and his main concerns in life seem to be learning as much as possible and laughing as much as possible so he's a good example to me really!

Bit of an update: the inclusion team ds was referred to have had a meeting and decided he should have a paediatric assessment. I've got a letter to give to the gp. It basically says he's struggling socially, wants all play to be on his terms, can't adapt his play or follow social cues of peers, and struggles with changes to routine at nursery by becoming agitated.

Feeling both gutted and glad at the same time. Sad it's serious enough to warrant this but glad we might finally get some clarity, and if ds does need help, hopefully start to access that.

Can anyone tell me what might happen at the paediatric assessment? Still got to make the gp appointment so no idea when it might be.