Would appreciate a bit of support - feeling low re teacher comments and toilet training

[ThomCat]

Sorry to come on and be all low but , well .....

So - Lottie is still in nappies.
Have attempted to talk to her about using the toilet. Sometimes she's really up for it but seems to enjoy sitting on the loo only if she doesn't need to go. If I ask her - "do you need to do a poo?" she'll say no and then she goes in her nappy. If I say to her "have you done a poo?" she says "no" and actually she has. Other times she'll say 'poo, poo,poo' and I put her on the loo and nothing happens. So I'd say she's not ready, right????

I'm planning on really, really making a massive effort to get it sorted over the summer hols. It still won't be easy as she's at a holiday club in the mornings while I work but it's going to be the best chance I get for a while.

However the head teacher called me over in the playground this morning and said "I just wanted a quick word, we had 3 dirty nappies from Charlotte yesterday". I told I was aware as it was written in her report. I thought she was going to say could I adjust her Movicol again as this was too many nappies to have to deal with and I wouldn't have appreciated that but what she said was "Other children are beginning to notice and comment". and

My hormones made me want to scream 'so chuffing what' as I felt defensive and upset but I held back. I also thought 'wtf, they take her to a loo to change a nappy so what are they noticing?' but didn't really say anything as I thought I was going to get really angry and lose it or burst into tears. She then asked was I trying to toilet train her.

I replied we talk about the loo, had potties in every room and so on but expalined what I've just told you lot about her saying no when I ask etc.

I then went on to say that I don't want my 5.5 yr old in nappies, that come Sept I'll have 3 childrens nappies to change, that I plan to really try and crack it over the summer hols but unless they are prepapred for me to send her in with no nappy and they contend with the accidents what can I do?'

She was all "Ohhh yes I'm really just thinking of you" which is bollcks (or is that my hormones talking?).

I just felt really upset that becasue they had to change 3 nappies yesterday and 'other children are commenting' that therefore she's ready to toilet train. What am I supposed to do when i really don't think she is and it's only a few weeks till she breaks up? I didn't appreciate the morning/playground chat about it and the presumption that I'm not doing anything, even though we dicussed TT at her open evening.

Oh rant, rant, rant.

Point is - what can I do?
If I have it right it's impossible to toilet train a child who isn't ready, right???

How did you girls go about it?

TC x

oh mate - nooo, really sorry to hear that. Blimey - feel a bit speechless tbh. That sucks

TC - have you looked at ERIC website? it quite useful,also Promocon website. They have a great PDF Brochure 'Mananging Bowel and Bladder problems in school and Early Year setting' it's quite interesting, i printed it and gave to school.

I totally understand how distressing it is for you, i was v upset yet his school were great and v supportive!

MABS - that tip rocks baby! I've just googled it and printed off the whole book for them. Wicked, thank oyu. I now have something like a full lever arch file to hand over to them!

Thomcat she is being cow.

DS is seven and still in nappies with no toilet training programme in place. He just isn't interested.. or rather he is.. in that he just loves to play with poo given the opportunity (sorry!).. but certainly not on depositing it down the toilet!

I feel very lucky that his (mainstream!) school are fine with it. They have wonderful changing/washing facilities and if any of the children comment, I have never been told about it.

I would love him to be toilet trained but without some co-operation on his part it's just not going to happen.

Like DS, I expect Lottie has other priorities!

yeah that hourly method of fio's is mentioned in the book. I think it was the approach I took with ds1 in the end.

The comment about the other children just smacks of emotional blackmail to me.

Someone once told me that toilet-training is like any other developmental milestone. You can't make a child suddenly 'get it' any more than you can make them walk or talk before they're ready.

Thomcat - I am dubious about the other children commenting - or maybe one did and the teacher is using that to make a generalisation and to make her own point - in my experience 5 year olds don't tend to make comments about that sort of thing - older children might.

I haven't got a lot of advice but wanted to try and cheer you up by saying that my Ds2 is nearly 6 and I have honestly despaired he would ever be toilet trained. He has low muscle tone and little body awareness and though we had tried a few times he showed no signs of progress. Then we agreed with school to try again at half term - we dutifully started again sitting him regularly on the toilet amid much protesting and he wet himself several times a day and Dh was ready to put him back into nappies after about 2h of being at home with him but I persisted because I had promised the school we would. Then the first day he was back at school he suddenly stayed dry all day and since then we have had about 5 or 6 accidents in total since half term. He still poos in his pants though so we have no means totally cracked but honestly if you said to me a couple of months ago that we would have got even this far I would have been overjoyed. We just take him regularly to the toilet and sometimes he goes, sometimes he doesn't and now sometimes he actually asks. I am only telling you this to say that miracles can happen but when the child is ready - so I want to try and give you hope for the future that Lottie will get it sometime but don't feel rushed into it before she's ready.

I don't know if you have something like this in your area but we have something called the Child Disability Team and I asked to be referred to them and the nurse came out and gave me some advice. She also gave me a sheet to record when Ds2 went everyday and the school filled that in too. That helped to show that he was going long enough between wees to show he had bladder control and also helps you to see when to sit the child on the toilet. Tbh nothing she said was rocket science but it helped me to have the support and to have someone else there to say that it wasn't working and Ds2 wasn't ready if we couldn't succeed.

Sorry I have rambled on enough but I wanted to say I really sympathise. Ds2 has loads of problems and it used to annoy me when people focussed on the toilet training - it's no different from anything else, if the child is not developmentally ready then it isn't going to happen.

Also - sorry still going on - Lottie is at school all day isn't she? - so if the school want her trained then they need to put in the effort also. They can't expect you to do it all when she is only with you for part of the day. The nurse from the Child Disability Team said to me that parents always try to start toilet training in the holidays but she thought it was best to start during term time and for the school to take part of the burden. Our first aim was to regularly sit Ds2 and catch the wee regardless of whether he showed awareness or not and to do this the school needs to be prepared to take Lottie to the toilet regularly through the day. I would suggest that to them and they might be less ready to imply that it is easy.

Hope you feel better soon.

glad that tip was useful TC - to date i have 6 bloody files of the stuff. (i used to live in Harrow and my Godmum lives in Pinner,so know your area pretty well funnily enough )

Hope your letter & all the links help.
I agree the school should be working with you, she is there more waking hours than at home so they really do ahve a very big part to play.
ds2 starts at ms in September & is not toilet trained,so far the headmaster has been very supportive & offered the help of the specialist nurse in Sept (apparently she's had successes with others). but I think it must be the season for teachers making stupid comments...

DS1 7 & NT, his teacher approached me in the playground & very sternly said "I must have a word about ds1" Ooh I reply whats the problem, well she said he has wind, he is constantly passing wind & its extremely smelly & the other children are finding it disruptive, can you cut down on his fruit & veg?
No I said I can't I;ll tell him he needs to leave the room before he passes wind if that would help.
Maybe we'll just see how it goes she said!

www.cgsupport.nhs.uk/PDFs/articles/good_practice_paediatric_continence_services.pdf

This is another document,as above, that i've found very useful reading x

You've all been great, thank you. I feel much better today and a lot stronger. I was always going to be sensitive to this topic but the way she approached me, her opening line etc, when I was feeling a bit low and very tired anyway didn't help.
Today I know that it's not anyone's fault that she isn't toilet trined. FGS, she only started walking 6 months ago and all her efforts, and ours have been going into getting her going and keeping her there. After 5 years on her bum those legs are really working hard to power her along. I will be making a good effort during the hols but am not going to feel bad if she is still not acheived continence by the time she goes back, we will get there but only when she is ready and I can't bypass that.
Thanks all.

Wonder what their reaction will be to my letter and all my notes with highlighted sections?!!

good luck TC, glad you feel a bit brighter tday.

Thanks MABS - and wishing you luck with it all too, xx

No help whatsoever mind you.

I always appreciate a scaly hug xxx

Or even a scaley one.

Sorry. not something I type every day!