Autistic ? Aspergers ? Or not......?

[TheodoresMummy]

I'm not really sure what to write here, but need to talk about this.

Basically, i'm very confused.

DS is 3.6. He's our only child at the moment.

He is currently being seen by our HV (who I like), a speech therapist (who I also like) and a Pead (who we have only seen once, but seemed nice).

I spoke to HV when DS was a little over 2 because I was concerned about his speech and behaviour. His speech was delayed, but is actually quite good now although he doesn't seem to use expressive language. Although I have never felt that DS was severely affected, I have always wondered if he might be on the Autistic spectrum. This might sound completely daft and I am probably just quoting stereotypes, but he does display certain characteristics.

Trouble is, HV and Speech Th both think that there is def something 'not quite right' with DS (their words). However, Pead doesn't seem overly concerned because his behaviour has improved over the last year and a bit. I agree that he has 'grown up' a lot (well he would tho, wouldn't he ?) and is much easier to live with , but i'm not convinced that he is just a very 'spirited' boy and don't want to let him down.

If I list some of my concerns and thoughts here would you perhaps be able to see if any of it sounds familiar to you and your DCs with ASD/Asp ?

• Loves all vehicles and obsessed with their wheels

• Fascinated/obsessed with spinning and others motion

• Fascinated by things going up/down, in/out, fast/slow

• Lines things up

• Groups things

• Counts things

• Has a phenominal memory

• Has started to play imaginatively, but all copied from stories he has heard or things he has been told

• Has only just started to like other children - he has always been aware they are around him, but used to scream and cling to me if they went near him or spoke to him. He started at a wonderful nursery last Sept and has gone from steering well clear of the others to saying hello/goodbye to them and hugging them, but still not playing with.

• He adores all adults. He waves and calls out to anybody, hugs strangers in the street/park if I don't stop him.

• He doesn't like change, but can cope after some repetition

• He is soooooo bossy , orders people arond all the time - he still sees himself as the centre of everyones world

• He is very sensitive, yet has no recognition of others' needs

Ok, I won't go on any longer. Am I just making too much out of normal 3 year old behaviour ? What are the main areas of behaviour/development I should look at if I am wondering about Autism ?

Hope someone can help me feel like I am not a weirdo who wants to see something that's not there....

No, he could point at that age.

He could take me to something he wanted, even tho he couldn't speak, when we first saw HV. She said straight awat that this showed he was not severely autistic even if he was on the spectrum.

When you say that he pointed, do you mean that he could do the physical act of pointing or that he would use it to communicate? Since having dd I've realised that there is a massive difference between the 2 things. Ds2 (ASD) would physically point if he was interested in something but wouldn't care whether there was anyone else looking. Dd (NT) will point, look at me and say "Dat! Dat!" and wave frantically at it until I give her whatever it is.

Well, can't remember exactly, but he used to drag me into the kitchen and reach/point up to the shelf where the biccies were kept.

Why is the pointing and the detail important ? This is the kind of thing that the specialists ask about, but never explain ...

all the social bits sound very much like my ds3, he did some of the lining up when he was little, and was obsessed with underneath things lol, including shoes, had to look at the soles of everyones shoes when they came in. he is also very overly affectionate with adults which can be very embarrassing when he is trying to kiss the benefits and council peeps lol. like your ds he hugs everyone, all his friends at school now hug him when they see him as they know that is his greeting, and he is really popular, but does he play with these kids, nope, he doesnt have a clue how to. i have now at least got school agreeing with me, but his paed, she has argued to the death that he is not asd, he isnt highly affected admittedly, but he is no 3 and is like none of his older brothers. but you will struggle to get a diagnosis at that age hun, so just work on getting him the help he needs, i'm still waiting for diagnosis and ds3 is now 5.7 yrs old. good luck hun,

yep- its pointing out things of interest that's important. Think of a baby sitting in a buggy pointing at a dog. Pointing to things to request may also be delayed, but often isn't as affected as poiting to share interest. Following a point to share interest is important as well. I wouldn't particularly trust you HV though- ds1 has always been able to lead me by the hand to things he wants and he's severely autistic!

Are you seeing the paed again, or are there any plans for a multidisciplinary assessment? You may not get many answers without that.

My ds was diagnosed at three nearly four (I think!) and I know Dinosaur's ds has had a dx at two, nearly three. So it can happen that young. He does sound quite spectrumy to me (my ds, who is fab, has Aspergers). Children with Aspergers grow and up and develop and change too - ds is very different at five and a half than he was at four. I think parental instinct is very powerful tbh. Ds was my first, and now I have dd as well I can see how different they are. I was convinced that no small children needed toys, for example. Dd loves toys!

I don't want to worry you btw - if I saw ds's Aspergers as a catastrophic thing I wouldn't say anything - but I don't tbh.

Ds2 had his provisional dx at 23mths and ds1's was at 3.5yrs so 3.6yrs isn't all that young.

Aloha - I know what you mean about toys. I was convinced that they were some sort of marketing con until dd came along.

• me too! Ha!

He is seeing the Pead again in October. She said that if he has grown out of the current behaviours then she will sign him off. If not then he may need to be assessed.

I'm actually not at all bothered whether he is on the spectrum or not, but it's just driving me crazy going from thinking that he's on the spectrum to thinking he's just young and 'particular' and 'quirky/eccentric' to again thinking that there's just something about him that I don't see in any of the other children we know....

Thanks for your thoughts.

What is it that causes them to be on the spectrum ? Why do these certain characteristics apply to most of the people on the spectrum ? None of this has been explained to me and when I look on info websites, I don't really get it....

Nobody knows what causes autism/aspergers. Genes, infections..there may be numerous routes. With hindsight I now realise my dad had Aspergers and my brother has too, plus ADHD.
They have similar behaviours because the behaviours is how ASD is diagnosed. No behaviours, no ASD.
My ds chews everything, toys, books, collars - very Aspergers.

children on the spectrum are all very different from each other, and I don't think there is any one 'cause'. There are many different routes. Many have some sort of sensory processing disorder. So for example some people who are non-verbal have described being unable to process speech sounds, or having hypersensitive hearing. Others may have problems with executive function (basically- very simply- getting your body to do what you want it to do on time). I don't know so much about AS.

Didn't realise chewing was linked to autism. My DS1 (going through assessment process atm) often chews his clothing & he is 7!

Oh yes, Aspergers can be very chewy

It's a sensory thing - seeking feedback. Also (to a much lesser degree IMO) can be an anxiety thing - a calming mechanism.

Oh gosh, yes, everything still goes in his mouth !!!

He will sit playing with his trains (nearly always trains ) with another train hanging out of his mouth !!

He chews clothing (sets my teeth on edge).

Chews his fingers.

Puts new stuff in his mouth as if he is still 6 months old !!!

He also has issues with noise. Hates the hoover, hairdrier, coffee grinder, but copes better than he used to - protets and runs from the room rather than going into hysterics.

He has endless energy, is very boisterous. Always banging and throwing things (throws spontaniously ).

Has learned to sit still at nursery for storytime and snacktime. Will sit for a short time at home to eat a meal. He never seems to walk, always running and jumping.

Speech Th seems to be leaning towards a 'listening' processing dysfunction, I think...?

Sorry to go on. It feels good to get it off my chest .

Oh yeh, and he walks on his toes. Everybody seems to be very interested in this...???

He also 'fiddles' with everything. He won't resist, but I really don't think that he can resist.

I'll shut up for a bit now .

all very aspergersy. My ds has special fiddle toys at school for this very reason. He simply cannot help himself.
He sounds a lively little critter, your boy [smiel]

But of course, 'normal' kids do a lot of these things, though I've not seen any kid chew as much as mine.

True Aloha, but I reckon there is 'something'.

He is most definately lively, and also very lovely...aah .

I don't doubt his loveliness for a second. My ds is very clever, affectionate and absolutely lovely to his baby sister.

Soooooo, what's the difference between Autism and Aspergers ?

Are there behaviours or traits that occur with one, but not the other ?

Suppose there must be or they would not be called different things, although they are both to do with being on the spectrum aren't they ?

It's a tricky area. Aspergers and High Functioning Austism are quite similar and some people think they are interchangeable. Ds had no speech delay and his 'symptoms' are quite mild.

Children with AS and HFA share the same core difficulties (social comunication, social interaction, imagination - leading to obsessive and repetitive behaviors: Wing's triad of impairment). In strict diagnostic terms (DSMIV and ICD 10) children with AS have normal speech development up to the age of 3yr while children with HFA don't. It is not a particularily helpful distinction.
A lot of people who work with children think a more useful distinction is that children with AS have a drive to be sociable and have friends (but do it wrong) while children with HFA are not bothered by lack of friends in the same way.
My son (who does not have a diagnosis but who fits PDD-NOS) never played with toys or coloured: he liked watching me playing with toys and colouring. My life improved hugely when he started watching TV and even more (when he was ~ 8yr) when he started reading all the time. He has always had a select group of friends and is sociable on his own terms. He is 19yr now and is delightful - just a bit strange!