Anyone have kids like this?No diagnosis given!!!

[Jollymum]

I have a freind who has a son aged 9. Brief summary based on my observations and what I am told. Tested for autism, apparantly at school and they have decided he's not. Tried Aspergers, Dsipraxic, Dislexic and basically naughty! Has always been a problem since Nursery. In my experience, wild, out of control sometimes and yet is now doing Grade 4 Ballet, perfectly and with major talent. Discipline in ballet no problem, but he doesn't recognise authority if he doesn't want to. Friend is fairly laid back about it but Head Teacher is pushing for "Extra Action" or whatever it's called, as she says that if he gets into Seniors, he'll just be labelled "Naughty" and be a lost cause. Example of Behaviour:- Takes baby brother (6/7 months) out of car seat and runs around busy school car park with him. Mums all wetting themselves and his Mum very calm. Knows if she shouts "Let go of him now!!" that child WILL.... on the hard floor! I tried to persuade him to hand over the baby and because he got bored, he did. He has no sense of danger, will climb a roof if he wants and will argue with teachers if he doesn't want to do work. Incredibly brainy, but no sense of propriety....won't do it if he can't see any reason to. Is starting to feel "different" because he is being made to feel "different" by school. Has Helper sometimes to make him concentrate. Anyone have ideas??? S/N people can't give any diagnosis...they just don't know and Mum is thinking that if he was labelled >>>>>>>>>whatever, at least there would be a Support Group to help and advise. My own son was diagnosed as not autistic, not AS. not ADSD, not whatever but JUST VERY CLEVER AND ODD (like his Dad). BUT her son needs much more help than mine and I wondered if she is on her own, can anyone help or recognise these symptons??!!

Who assessed him at school? I think a full multi-disciplinary assessment would give her a far better answer tbh. Has he seen a Paed about these difficulties?

My best guess would be AS. It sounds as though he takes things very literally, eg putting the baby down. Mrsforgetful has some brilliant posts about her boys and how literal they can be. Aspies also tend to be very bright too. Do you know why the school (and Ed.Psych?) ruled out AS?

He's had the whole stuff at school, ie: people watching him in class, doing assessments on him etc. He just doesn't fit into any "niche". The same applied to my son. although I still have my doubts, but they just said that although he was very intelligent, (but not genius level!), he wasn't "different" enough to warrant help/watching/ideas. He's weird at home, can be very kind but once he starts saying something he CAN'T not say it (IYKWIM) even if we threaten him with total extinction.... (as you do?!) he has to finish his sentence under his breath. AND he used to be obsessive about his Lego, ie: "You've moved my Lego 1/8 inch to the right," and to me this was Auti signs. Lining things up, etc, etc, classic signs but no, I have a weird child according to the people that know! Anyway, back to my friend, please has anyone heard of/got a similar child? It's scary for her not knowing what she's dealing with. Help appreciated..Thanks.XX

There is an online autism type questionnaire available online that lots of people on here have found useful.. It is actually for pdd, which is the same as mild asd.
The link is here:-
online checklist
Hope this helps! BH

Thanks a lot but he's already nine so most questions, ie hand flapping, inappropriateness ( is that a word?!) don't apply. Need help here folks, just let me know if your child is lke my friend"s. She is struggling to put a "label" on him but it's much easier if you can because Social Services etc etc will HAVE to help, at least to some degree. If SS can't agree and the concensus is that you're crap parents or that he just needs a good "smack". that doesn't help. I know, because I've seen him and I work with kids that have SN and my gut reaction is that the family need help.

hi Jollymum

have similar problems with my stepson, have posted on this and did do the online test, which showed he may have moderate PDD. SS isn't naughty like your friend's son, but is clever, and finds it difficult to concentrate. He does flap his hands, as he likes the sound his fingers make when they slap together, and will argue with teachers if he doesn't like the work, he says it's boring and he already knows it (which doesn't make him too popular in class).

I would really like him to be tested, but dh says he's just an individual, and is pleased he doesn't conform if it means he's developing his own personality ! Obviously that's no comfort to me when he's racing round the supermarket using the trolley as a sledge. Like you say, it's easier to see a way forward if he was diagnosed with something, just in terms of feeling there's something you can do, but dh doesn't want him stigmatised.

One avenue your friend could consider might be a child counsellor - this is what I'm trying to move dh towards. I hope maybe if ss saw someone who was able to talk with him about his difficulties at school and home, they might be able to say whether we needed to take him for an assessment, which dh would probably then be more receptive towards.

Hope this is of some use, and I do sympathise with your friend. Having a child who behaves so differently yet you don't know why makes you feel you're failing them in some way. SS is 12, so not so far off age of your friend's son. I feel it's important to sort this out before ss hits puberty and hormones kick in!

Emma xx

My ds was/is a bit like this, I think i posted on another thread some time. He just doesn't see the actions=consequences so he doesn't respond to sanctions or rewards. Also not very good at social niceties. We went to family therapy at one time which I thought was unpleasant because we were asked to talk about him in front of him and all seemed a bit strange (waste of time). He was also very put out at change in routine eg holidays and very impatient, everything must be now and always bored/fed up, doesn't do small talk, can be very annoying when he has nothing to do ends up trying to provoke people. He is actually much better as a teenager than he was when he was younger. The school has helped a lot. Basically he is himself but there are a lot of distinctive behaviours which are very particular to him. I can appreciate how your friend must feel because I used to dread school ringing up.

Jollymum..
have a look at the indigo child book (website too)
you may or may not agree with it- it's one of those very "alternative" ideas- but this thing about not accepting authority/ and being labelled naughty crops up..
Take it with a pinch of salt, but I reckon it has some interesting thoughts.

Who was watching him in class etc though? If it was someone like an ed psych then I wouldn't think their opinion worth all that much. I've never heard of a pead going into class (not saying it doesn't happen just that I've never heard of it) and I think that he needs to see a pead before AS etc can be ruled out given that he appears to be displaying some quite challenging behaviours.

What's a paed, Jimjams? This kid is weird, he's like mine but worse. He is also brilliant, makes up poetry and is generally liked by classmates (who just accept he's wierd!). My son was classed a s a bit "geeky" but this kid isn't because he makes the kids laugh and gets away with it in class because no-one knows how to deal with him. Head Teacher is stressing that as he goes into Year 5 that he needs to be "helped" because if they leave it to Year 6, the Senior School will be dealing with it and he'll get a lot harder time. Can you let me know about the "Indigo" site please, I went onto it and was stuck. What is it??! Any help please? Many thanksXX

Jollymum, he sounds so like my ss - same thing in juniors, he used to get away with it because no one really knew how to deal with it, made other kids laugh, kept singing silly songs and making up jokes all the time.

The problems at school really started when he went to the comprehensive - just like your friend's teacher said, they came down on it quite hard, and dh was mortified at parent's evening when he was told ss was disruptive and had to stop distracting other pupils. he had to change tutor group mid way through school, as kids who had come up from different schools took a dislike to him and just thought he was a dickhead - he couldn't deal with this, as he was used to 'entertaining' his classmates until then.

We're having to deal with it ourselves, but I think (hope) it's improving slowly. I don't mind him having a laugh at home, but have found the best way to discourage really silly behaviour is either to ignore it, or to ask him what he's doing and why. For instance, if dd has a friend round, ss will often do something like jump on the coffee table when they're quiely watching tv and start singing (usually 'Bohemian Rhapsody' at the top of his voice. I go in the room and ask him to come with me, then ask why he felt it important to do that just them. Reply is usually 'don't know' or 'because I felt like it', so we then have a talk about what is appropriate behaviour at one time and what isn't. It's some form of attention seeking, clearly, but just making him aware we know that's what it is has helped make it less frequent.

So feel for your friend (and would love to exchange ideas and support if she wants to)

Emma xx

Sorry - didn't mean to do that smiley face thing then - just trying to close brackets!

I think the site is indigochild.com or something like that ... it probably helps if you read the book tho.. as a lot of these similar sites are a bit er..wacky! (but our American mumsnetters can probably help here!)

a paed is a paediatrician- they're the only people who can reliably diagnose/not diagnose AS. (Although some clinical psychologists could as well- a paed provides a more robust diagnosis).

Unicorn - I had a look at the indigo child website, but it doesn't give much away - obviously, like you say, you need to read the book. Have you read it? I'm interested to get other perspectives on this problem (however unorthodox) - sometimes you have to think outside the box, even if you reject what you find. As jollymum's friend will probably agree, you get hungry for any other ideas that can shed light on what's happening. The school doesn't have the resources or time to deal with 'different' behaviour, and to some extent I think kids have to understand that there are times when they have to conform (even if they don't agree, it's just part of life), but if it would help me deal with situations at home, I'd welcome ideas.

Thanks Emmaxx

emma- as it so happens I have just written an article on Indigo's.. - nevertheless it's just another theory... (bit of a ritalin backlash book from US)
in a nutshell... too many kids being stuck on behavioural drugs.. why?.. well ... because they are square pegs.. in round holes..ie.today's kids are different but society is not adapting to help them - so 'we'respond by saying THEY are the problem + drug them.
I know I know... sounds very simplistic.. but it's food for thought if nothing else.
If u want to talk about this more u can always contact me through mn..
HTH