Ds's growing awareness of his diffculties with friendship hurts more than anything.

[macwoozy]

I've just read a few lines that were spoken from my ds, he has HFA. This was part of a report written by his school. He would have found it difficult giving this wealth of information so I can only presume that he was just answering questions rather than offering information, IYKWIM. Anyway I think it's sad, and says alot about my ds's desperation to find a friend, or most probably just not getting the whole friendship concept. It says:-

'He said that he didn't like playtime because X and Y won't play with him so he chases them. He said that he did play with other children sometimes,(not what I see!) but X and Y were his favourite friends.'

mac, how gut wrenching that must be. i'm sorry, not aware what HFA is but wanted to reply as your post is so sad.

How old is your ds? is it possible that his desperate wish to find a friend will stand him in good stead as he gets older? The fact that he's actually caring about the issue might add to his social abilities?

sorry if this isn't likely, just wondered?

I really wish that was the case, but he's now approaching 7 and the older he's becoming the more the gap is widening when it comes to social skills amongst his classmates. I can only imagine that it'll all get far worse for him When he had no concept at all of friendship, (I don't think he really understands but has enough awareness to know that no-one wants to play with him], he was oblivious, and so never suffered these confusing feelings. He has high functioning autism btw.

oh thanks for explaining mac.

Must be so horrible for him; it's got to be worse when he's aware of what he can't do rather than being oblivious. And it must be so awful not to be able to protect him from this stuff.

Don't mean to sound glib, but at least he has a loving caring involved mum to be on his side. That has to help him HUGELY.

Thanks sunny[apt name!]. Most of the time I feel inadequate but that's lovely for you to say.

Hi MacWoozy. I can relate to this as well. It is really heartbreaking when you hear your child is on their own particularly when they want to make friends.

Things I have found helpful regarding friendships are getting up to date computer games at home. Ds finds it much easier to invite someone home if it is to play on a computer game/Sony playstation etc. He is also very keen for me to get Sky TV but funds don't run to that at present! He has had a couple of boys round on separate occasions recently and that has gone as well as I could have hoped for. The other boys had a good time and this seems to have given ds some more confidence in the playground. I am also planning on getting a trampoline for the garden as that is another activity that can be done without too much verbal interaction. Cinema trips are also good for the same reason.

Are the school doing anything to help regarding social skills sessions? Some schools operate a buddy system in the playground where an older child looks after the younger one during some playtimes and introduces him to some game playing.

The school set up a social skills group for ds, but according to his latest SALT report he's unable to carry over the skills which are covered in the group into the wider school setting, and he's been doing this for almost two years now. At playtime they do try and involve other children who are good role models for play, (states this in report) but how often this happens I'm not really sure, I just know he spends alot of time on his own.

Thanks for the good ideas caroline, but it's got to the stage that there is not one single child that I could ask to come over to play with ds and I do ask ds often. He has all the latest playstation/computer games but no-one to share them with. Mind you, I've been known to get some impressive top scores just lately.

Hi McW. Does your ds have a statement? Could the LSA provide support in the playground at all? It sounds like yr ds needs a lot more help in this area than is currently being provided. AS kids can be helped, just because previous interventions have not worked should not be an excuse for the school to give up. Remember AS is a developmental disorder so improvements can happen at any time. I think 7 is a hard age for AS kids as their peers really start taking off then and they are left behind socially. I read a report recently about my ds in the class room and it said that all the other kids ignored him and he tried to engage with them by behaving badly which did not work at all.

I always think of my ds as being at least 2 years behind his peers in social skills. He can play quite happily with a four year old but not with kids his own age. However this can change. Are you in touch with other parents with AS kids in your area? This might be a source of new friendships as AS kids often link up together.

Hi Mac, this is one of the worst aspects of HFA I feel, however, it is positive that he is motivated to want friends. DD (AS) at this age took part in playground intervention programme provided through ASD support service. I think this really helped her generalise the stuff she was learning in her one to one sessions into the real environment. We also encouraged a friendship with a neighbours daughter and not at the same school, this friend is younger so socially nearer dd's level, and it gave us the opportunity to prompt dd in how to give and take in a friendship etc. this gave her lots of confidence with friendships.
I also have ds aged 8, he is into lots of different card games - Yughio/Dr Who/Football etc, all the boys his age swap etc, could you encourage a shared interest that ds could take into school, as boys this age tend to be quite fickle and will choose a friend who has the same interests primarily. HTH

I had a little weep to myself this morning after Ds expressed similar sadness- his friends wont play with him, push him away etc. It was easier for him before he was aware of his social difficulties!He is also 7, and plays Ok with reception children!

Caroline, ask me if he's got a statement in 1 months time, and fingers crossed I can answer 'yes'. The school started of the process at the end of Year R, he's now Year 2. They sent in a preliminary application last year and it got turned by the LEA due to the fact that his school provided their own LSA for ds out of their own funds, and LEA considered that they were managing him well enough without the need of a statement. I've just recieved a 37 page re-application from the school detailing why he needs a statement with all the necessary evidence, IEP's etc. So if he doesn't get one now, then he never well, because there is nothing I can add that would help his case. Maybe I should have started the process myself, but I always figured that they were in a much stronger position to fight his case, because of their experiences with him at school, just it's taken so bloody long. Sorry for rambling here, but I'm embarrased that I've allowed it to drag on for so long They've put a number of strategies into place, but nothing really seems to be working.

I'd really love to meet other parents, but more importantly I'd love ds to meet up with other similar children. He decided that he no longer wanted to go to his SN's playscheme because it was all too stressful for him. He copes so much better if it's just 1 to 1, as long as they don't move his toys.

Monica, how did you go about organsing the intervention programme through the ASD support service, that really sounds promising, I'd love to give that a go. I'll try and find out if the other children bring in cards etc, although I'm not sure they're allowed to bring in things unless it's for 'show and tell'. But that gives me a bit of hope for when he moves up to Juniors in Sep

Maybe we should all set up our own little network of buddies for our children??

Hi Macwoozy

I do hope the LEA see sense and grant the statement request anyway but if not all is not lost.

If the LEA refuse again the school need to tell you and then you yourself apply for it. I would strongly urge you to do this if they still say no. You have more chance as a parent getting a statement than if the school apply for it as the school have no right of appeal if the LEA say no (but you as the parent do). A person would think that schools would be in a better position re statements but it is not the case at all.

IPSEA are very good at the whole statementing process and they will be able to help you (www.ipsea.org.uk).

Thanks Attila. I've phoned IPSEA before following your advice. Took weeks to get through but when I eventually did they were very helpful. I was surprised when they advised that although the school can't appeal, I can actually appeal on behalf of the schools application, so I've been kind of hanging on waiting to see the outcome. My plan was to appeal on their behalf, and if that failed, start the process myself. But TBH, they have so much evidence to support this re-application, that there is absolutely nothing I can add to make the case stronger.

Hi there, can I just add that my daugheter (aged 11) has also had tremenous difficulties in the past making friends and being accepted by her peers.

She doesn't have any special needs as far as we are aware, but has spent long periods of time at school feeling quite isolated and lonely despite our best efforts.

I would often drop by at the school at lunchtime to see if I could spot her in the playground and she was often standing alone at the 'friendship stop' . It is heartbreaking.

I really hope that things improve for your little boy, you sound like a wonderful mum and I'm sure that he will benefit from your love and support. x

Hi McW. I really hope the school's application for a statement is successful. It sounds the school are finally realising that they can't handle yr ds's problems on their own.

Regarding contacts I was wondering if the parent partnership or NAS could introduce you to others in the same position in the area. Do you live in the town or country? If you live in a city there should be quite a lot of kids around with AS it is just a question of contacting them. I think this problem is much more widespread than is acknowledged. For example there are 5 kids with AS in a neighbouring school to me and at least one other in my ds's school. Quite often the parents are in denial about things and the kid is just left to cope as best as he can.

I am sure you have thought about all of this but have you tried to enroll yr ds in activity he might like - e.g. karate or tennis. They are both structured activities which are mainly one on one so more chance of our kids getting on with them rather than team games. I think the author of Freeks Geeks and Aspergers Syndrome spoke very highly about karate so might be worth a go.

I have suggested to ds about trying out activities like Karate, but TBH I think he would find it too overwhelming. He doesn't understand instruction well within a group, and he finds it very difficult to copy what others are doing, say like when performing in special assemblies etc, so I don't think he's ready for anything like that yet. But I am hoping as time goes on, he might be able to give it a go. I might even try it out with him, although don't know if my body is quite ready for a few high kicks I do appreciate all your ideas though caroline

I must contact NAS again, it's been a few years since I last spoke to them, and like you say there might be a group in the area, I'd be more interested though if the children were involved rather than just the parents meeting up once in while.

thisisdavina, I've never heard of the 'friendship stop' before, is it where children can meet up within the playground? How heartbreaking for you to see your dd stand there on her own, it must be so difficult

Hi Macwoozy
This is just the type of thing that worries me about ds2 starting ms school sept. It is maybe more difficult to teach than academic learning iykwim.
DS1 school also has a "buddy stop" the school are really proactive in encouraging the kids to go & ask anyone at the buddy stop to join them. I think the older girls are better at it than the boys though, maybe a good way to fin a girlfriend (wink) It also makes it easier for the teachers to notice a child alone particularly if they are at the buddy stop often!
It takes very little to set up, just a bench & a wooden bus stop type sign & maybe a couple of assemblies, could you suggest it?

Hi again, I think you really need to be pushy with the school, I had to transform myself into this type pushy proactive mum unfortunately, it shouldn't be the case but in my experience the only way.
Even if he does get the statement (fingers crossed) it may not mean the type of support he gets will enable him to generalise his social skills learnt from a one to one setting into the real world. This is often a major obstacle, often overlooked by professionals, for asd kids. I fought to get dd (now 11) every possible intervention going, and it was exactly that, a fight! Play ground intervention is something our asd support service offers, but only if you ask! If yours doesn't offer it, find out why and tell them this is what ds needs to help him generalise his social skills into the playground.
In fact speak to teachers/senco/asd support and explain you are really concerned about his playground time and how it is a huge missed opportunity to work with ds during this intensive social time for him to learn how to interact in his social environment.

You could even sit down yourself and put some activities together that ds would enjoy with his peers and help him to learn the basics of turn taking, sharing, negotiating, instigating play with his peers. I have often found the school are happy to be hand fed ideas. Also if you tell them that ds is going to be bringing in a few x trading cards to show his friends during playtime, as a prompt to forming friendships to help overcome his difficulties in this area, they would have to be pretty hardfaced to disagree.
I know it is hard to find the emotional energy to keep on top of these things but unfortunately, in my case, I have found this is the only way forward.

On a more positive note for all the OP's my dd was just as you have described at this age, and now aged 11 has several close almost typical friendships, so hang on in there and keep pushing!

hi macwoozy and everyone else
just to add
my dd1 has hemiplegia with some autistic traits, one of which is difficulty with social skills/situations etc.
she is also like this in the playground, it's difficult to approach other children and when she does she says they often run away.
example, some of the other girls have started to do that girl thing of being her friend one day then pushing her away the next day. she is so innocent, she has no comprehension of this 'game', bless her little heart.
she's always been like this, but now (8) it the differences really show up - there is no special one friend, or desire to arrange after-school meets.
i don't think she would really be bothered as she seems content and happy when just with us,the family- i think what upsets her is having to be with people in the playground more than anything,lol.
some of you mentioned sneaking a look into the playground: i have always deliberately avoided this because i know that i 'll see her roaming around on her own,and i'll be heartbroken all over again. i don't think schools can do much, or don't want to .
i've only quite recently discovered mn, just want to say, it feels nice in this sn area.

I do find it very hard to be a pushy parent, I feel his school have done as much as they are capable and have already brought in various strategies to help ds (even though nothing seems to be working just yet), so I don't feel I have a right to demand more. TBH I think that the school are at a loss as to what to do next as well. I just keep thinking/hoping that once he gets his statement, then I can start being a bit pushy as it'll then be his legal right IYKWIM.
I will have a chat about the cards, and friendship stop, that's certainly worth a try, and I will certainly contact the ASD support group, if he could learn to carry over the skills covered in his social skills group into a social setting, then that would be a huge step forward.

hk78,Welcome to MN That's sad to hear that the children run away from your dd during playtime.

Oh Mac i could have wrtten your post.

Ds is 6 and also has HFA. he has noticed recently that the other chidlren bully him. he doesn't understand thatits bulying of course, just that they wont play with him or that they try and get him into trouble.

I posted a little while ago about a night of crying about lads he called his friends throwing carrots at him in the lunch hall and then calling him piggy so he will chase them.

what was worse is the fact that the teachers tell me of the bullying by way of showing me how good he is and how much he has improved because he no longer hits out and just lets these bullies do this to him.

I can honestly say it was the worst night i have had with him.
I really donn't have any advice as i am still trying to sort through it myself. i have spoken with the school who say they haven't noticed anything (which is odd as he is meant to have full time 1:1)

good luck

this has got to be one of my worst fears with my ds3, he is poss as and at present is pretty popular, all the girls seem to want to mother him, he is only 5, but i watch him in the playground when i drop him off and he just chases round the playground, i am sure eventually the other kids will get fed up of him cos he just chases anyway. so sad for your little man hun, lets hope he manages to link up with someone that understands him, hugs for him x

Hi Macwoozy

Sounds like what you are going through at the moment is what I am dreading happening to my ds1 in a couple of years. My ds1 has Hemiplegia and cannot talk but is in receiption at the moment (5) and is loving it. I have watched him in the ms playground and he is surrounded by girls and loves it. (he does 2 days at ms and 3 at sn) But I just know that when he gets older and the social boundaries start to form, that black cloud called 'bullying' is looming ever closer. It makes me feel like 'sheltering' him permanently in sn school to protect him from all this oncoming nastiness Hope you ds is happier soon x

Macwoozy, hi.

It's dinosaur - I've changed my name and not got around to changing it back!

Just wanted to say, DS1 has got a lot out of having some friends outside of school - there are two mumsnetters' DSs whom he has spent a bit of time with and I think it's really been a much needed ego boost for him. So I think that trying to create a friendship group outside of school for Ds is a very good idea.

Thinkingi of you, as ever

Dino

Thanks dinosaur

Mamazon that's terrible, that wouldn't sit well with me either. Teachers should be more aware that SN children are more likely to be targets for bullying, and be on the lookout for it, I do hope you can get it all sorted for your ds

Thanks for all your replies Just shows how very painful it is for all of us to witness our children go through the pain of being pushed away be their peers time and time again