Main stream or special school for ASD

[Worzel77]

Hi. My DS will be 4 in January and is due to start school in September 2015. He has a diagnosis of ASD and is currently at a main stream nursery with some 1:1 support. He seems to be getting on fine there, he enjoys going and is popular with the staff. He does need them to make some adjustments for him as he refuses to sit for register, sit at the table for lunch/snack or wear any protective clothing. He can say a few words but is largely unable to communicate verbally, he is still in nappies.

My question is we are about to start applying for an EHC plan and need to specify which school he will attend. I can't seem to get a straight answer from any health professionals about whether he should start off at a mainstream school or a special school. They just say look at all schools and keep your options open, do what you think is best. They also refuse to say at what level his autism is and just say it is too early to tell.

I was intending sending him to the local, mainstream school (good school, much more convenient location than any special school) but am confused as to what would be best for him. I have a friend who keeps hinting that I should be thinking about a special school for him and it is making me question my decision.

Can anybody offer any advice?

Hi I have a daughter with autism who has just started reception, I would mention a couple of things , don't worry about location if you decide to go for a special school you may well get transport.also I agree with the advice to look at as many schools as possible , you may really like one you wouldn't have previously considered

This is the hard one and I'm afraid they are right, no one but YOU can suggest whether your DS is best put in a special school or not.

I'm going through the same issue, I've looked at 10 schools so far and there's only ONE school I like that I think would meet DS needs, but the school is waaaaaay out of my borough.

Don't limit yourself to only ASD type schools... I've been to see a learning disability school, speech schools, communication schools etc.

Write down the needs your DS has, visit the schools and ask them how would they support your DS needs.

Good luck.

You wont get a straight answer from them, its all about reading between the lines unfortunately. You could ask if the mainstream school had any particular worries about meeting his needs?

I would have a look round the special needs schools certainly.
Two of my children have ASD, and one is now in a special school. Hes year 9 and has only just started. mainstream primary was ok. They managed his needs. Mainstream secondary was hideous. Im so relieved hes not there anymore, but I couldnt get a straight answer from anyone either, and ended up tooing and froing, and second guessing myself, before making a choice for an out of catchment mainstream with a good SEN dept who promised me a lot, but completely failed to deliver, plus the whole structure of secondary just drove him bananas. Not good. I then had to fight and fight for a place in a SEN school
My other boy is year 3 and doing well in mainstream still. I will have to see how it goes later, but I think a good mainstream primary can cope with ASD often, but it really depends on the child

Just typed long post - it got eaten - argh!
In short - yes to lookin round. Gut feeling that you get is best.
We went down local mainstream route - has been great. Amazing SENCO - we knew on meeting her.

Joining local supper group & getting recommendations via word of mouth

Support not supper - though some meals out might be nice too

Or mainstream school with ASD unit would give best of both?

your child has the right to a mainstream education if thats what you want.

Unfortunately they have shut down a lot of sen schools so your right to a mainstream education doesnt necessarily mean a right to an appropriate education. I had to fight tooth and nail for my ds place in a sen school, and mainstream can be incredibly tough for autistic kids.

Usually it will be a case of mainstream unless mainstream cannot meet the childs needs, so even if you want a sen school, you might not get a place

Only you can decide - visit plenty of schools and ask where you think your son would fit best? I picked a special school for DS he has ASD and severe learning difficulties - I cried buckets the day I visited the school he is in now, I knew it was the perfect place for ds but I didn't want it to be.........I wanted him to be a mainstream class without any special needs!!!

One thing to keep in mind - if his needs change it is much easier to move from a special school into mainstream than the other way around.

I love DS's ss, he is actually part of his class there, whereas he was isolated and the odd one out in ms. I am in a different position to you though as we had no clue DS had ASD before he started school and it seems as though he has different needs to your DS so it may not be applicable.

One thing I would do if I was in your position is speak to other parents of SEN kids in your area. Find out how well supported they are REALLY in ms. It's great to hear it from the school that they have kids with statements and full time 1:1s but it wasn't until I got more involved with parents that I found out how many they were also kicking out or driving to despair until their parents decided to home ed.

We might be in a bad area but it really has shocked me.

I have the same dilemma.

I'm considering whether it's worth putting up a fight to get DS into a specialist school part time- for like a year and a half. So that im able to decide whether he should be placed at a special school or mainstream school with support full time.

DS (ASD) age 7 has been in a mainstream nursery and 2 mainstream schools. 2 of these tried their best and one was useless. None of them could meet his needs. Even well intentioned mainstream teachers do not have the time to personalise a curriculum for one child in the class. That is just a fact. They will largely be left to the 1:1 to teach. In a good school it is possible to negotiate some regular 1:1 teacher or small group time, but I am talking about 5-10 mins a week or during assembly or after school. Not really enough time to get to know your child well.

DS has had ABA support since he was 4. This is highly specialised teaching but takes place partly in mainstream and partly outside school. His programme is highly personalised. Like Manish this has been really successful, but mainstream would not be successful for DS without ABA. It is the ABA staff that make it work. DS had a fab teacher last year when we moved to a new school, with lots of autism experience, but she still said she relied completely on ABA staff to 'train' her in how to communicate and get the best out of DS, and on the ABA staff to decide what work was suitable for DS and to break it down. The ABA staff did all the 'autism' bits e.g. language, social, behaviour, life skills - the teacher only did numeracy and literacy and even then we and ABA had to support and fill in gaps. The teacher said she learnt more in one term from ABA than she had in 10 years in 3 LAs working with 3 different LA autism teams.

I value DS being in mainstream as he is bright (despite having severe speech problems and little social interest) and the expectations of him have been higher than they would have been in our SS. Academically he's achieved much more. The other children are great with him and good for his learning. Its not true of all SS but our local one is aimed at children with IQ below 70 and would not have challenged DS. There would have been very few children with language. The staff would have made many many adjustments to the environment he didn't really need so that it would have been quite a simplified environment and not very representative of the real world. Some children need this, but DS didn't. But he still needs the ABA expertise to work on language, social skills, behaviour and life skills etc. there is no way DS would be doing well at mainstream without ABA. Not because the school he's now in isn't supportive but because there is no way they would have the time or expertise to provide what he needs.

I would be very wary of putting a child with moderate or severe asd / little language into mainstream with just school / LA support. I met 6 other families when ds was 2. All the other families (who didn't have ABA) have given up on mainstream now, even though some of those children have far less severe ASD / language problems than DS and all had FT 1:1.

In your shoes I would look at ABA+mainstream or dual placement (ms/ss) or ms with a unit. Its very hard to make it work without regular access to specialist advice. If you do go for mainstream then be prepared to have to in effect home educate alongside, because there will be big gaps in the provision and be prepared that your child may need something else by year 3 onwards. I also would think about not going FT. DS still only does PT school and PT ABA out of school. He wouldn't like to go FT and there would be a lot of dead time in assembly, PHSE, carpet discussions etc which would just go over his head and not the best use of his time.

One thing I would say if you look at units is ask a lot of questions , we viewed three and we didn't see a child in a mainstream class in any of them , in one the afternoon activity was making play doh

The only thing that I'm a bit hesitant when putting DS into a special school/ unit, is the copying of the behaviour and the fact that DS gets EASILY distracted.

On another note, It's so weird how kids with severe language delays look like they have autism .

DS1 was much the same. At 4 still in nappies and non-verbal. But we'd really made the decision about schools when we were deciding on nursery. We were recommended a school which was apparently very strong with Sen and ASD. But when we went to look around, we just didn't like it. DS1 kicked off, they didn't have anything to occupy him and the Head seemed really uninterested. When we went to see the nursery at our local school (at the end of the road) it was a totally different feeling. DS1 settled with some toys, teacher seemed unfazed by requirements and keen to have him. He was there for five terms (two part time and three full time) and was so settled there wasn't really a decision to make come Reception.

He gets about 4 hours a day 1-1 under his statement but they top up so he has someone with him all the time. Won't say it's been all plain sailing but genuinely feel they want him there and to achieve the best he can. He's a real part of the school. Everyone knows him. :-) And I do think being with NT children must be better for him and his development.

We didn't know that DS had ASD when we were choosing schools. We are just starting the EHC Plan application process now (DS 5yo in year 1).

Where we live, mainstream schools are very over-subscribed, so the choice was limited and unpredictable (some years you could get into a particular school, and others not, depending on bulge years, siblings, etc).

We looked around all the schools where it seemed possible DS might get a place. Eventually we chose our closest one, and were delighted when DS got a place. I liked the strong pastoral care ethos that pervades the school, and the headteacher is brilliant.

I was really worried about the size of the school - 3 form entry. But having actually tried it, there are some real benefits. E.g. they now have a full-time SENCO, who is great. And they are able to afford funding for a full-time 1-1 for DS while waiting for the EHC Plan process.

The most useful piece of advice I had from Mumsnet when choosing school originally was to remember that you are only choosing the school that is right for now - if your DS stops being happy wherever you choose at some point in the future, you will obviously look to move him somewhere else.

And, as others have said, it is very clear where a school actually wants your DS. DS's school are very clear about that with us. For now, mainstream is the right place for our articulate (except about feelings!) and academically bright DS.

copying of any behaviour is something a lot of people ge concerned about but i dont think its a big thing. Any copying is likely to be temporary if it happens at all, and ofc, SEN behaviour isnt catching. A lot of undesirable behaviours are a manifestation of stress, but these schools are usually less stressful. Smaller classes, more attention,

It's a difficult decision. Ds was highly anxious at ms and had sensory issues causing some behavioural difficulties. He is at a specialist school but is now struggling to cope. Other pupils are too challenging and disruptive around him and he is not being stretched academically. His anxiety is actually far,far worse than when he was at ms . The ss is not the comfortable, highly controlled environment that we were assured it would be.

We now have the dilemma of trying to find another placement. Ds wants ms but wouldn't cope with the noise and amount of pupils there. It's all a nightmare really.

@Twowillbefine do you have an update on your little one 7 yesrs on

visit both specialist and mainstream- DS with ASD had basic language and out of nappies he started reception in specialist school and has thrived has friends and included in everything a lovely class of 7. Good luck if you find the right place it’s amazing.

I don't think anyone here can really answer that question for you. The best thing you can do is gather as much info as possible about the different options in your area - visit as many as schools as possible, there can be huge differences in culture even within mainstream. Go on local social media forums for SEND families and ask them about their experiences.

My DS has ASC. He only toilet trained 1 month before his 4th birthday. He was monosyllabic when he went to mainstream primary and couldn't answer even the most basic questions. He has an EHCP.
We were unsure if he'd last in mainstream but felt we had to try.

He's now in year 4, still in mainstream and loves it. Still has some problem with speech and language and some executive processing issues. But he can read, loves maths, really enjoys singing, drama and PE. I'm glad we didn't put him straight into SEND in reception.

@pineapplehedgehog

It's a difficult decision. Ds was highly anxious at ms and had sensory issues causing some behavioural difficulties. He is at a specialist school but is now struggling to cope. Other pupils are too challenging and disruptive around him and he is not being stretched academically. His anxiety is actually far,far worse than when he was at ms Sad. The ss is not the comfortable, highly controlled environment that we were assured it would be.

We now have the dilemma of trying to find another placement. Ds wants ms but wouldn't cope with the noise and amount of pupils there. It's all a nightmare really.

I wondered how things turned out for you as we are in a similar position. How old was your ds then? Thanks.

I agree very much with Agnesdipesto. My dd did mainstream with some ongoing support from her aba tutor and it worked quite well until y2 and y3. The aba tutor had gone and the school could not provide her with a suitable curriculum. She could not access the work and her behaviour deteriorated. She then went to an asd specialist school and has thrived there. An asd non verbal child will be looked after in a mainstream class in reception and possibly year 1. They will be primarily taught and looked after by a TA. The teacher will not have the time to provide a bespoke curriculum for one child. I would start thinking about specialist schools for after year 1.

🧟‍♂️ 🧟‍♀️