School says DS displaying ASD behaviours

[noblegiraffe]

I got called into a meeting at school last night where out of the blue the SENCO suggested possible ASD for DS (4). He is on an IEP to work on his social skills and has been given a special cushion to help him sit still and stop annoying others on the carpet. It will be reviewed and if no improvement, they will get him assessed.

I know his social skills are crap with his peers, and I've been told he can't keep his hands off them, which is annoying them; he plays with much older children in the playground. He plays nicely with a friend out of school and with his cousins.

He's very bright, and a bit quirky, but when I google ASD symptoms, they are all talking about things which don't fit. Speech is fine, so is eye contact, he can recognise emotions. I don't know many other 4 year olds for comparison and I don't know what I should be looking for, or whether there is even a problem that a bit of help won't sort.

So my first thought was 'no, he isn't autistic' but then that might explain some behaviour but then does some autistic behaviour mean autism?

Not always...have you done the MCHAT test at all? It says for toddlers when you click that link....but I'm pretty sure it allows you to choose the age. I did it for my DD1 when school had similar concerns....she was a bit older than your DS at age 7 but it was a new school.

It's very worrying and if your child doesn't quite fit the mold it can be confusing. Like your DS my DD is bright, articulate but she was a bit quirky. SHe still is but now she's 9 she seems pretty typical. School didn't pursue my DDs case in the end....but they did help her socially by physically getting in the playground and organising circle games...which meant she HAD to join in and because the rules were clear, she was happy to. It broke down her barriers and now at 9 she's got a lot of friends and is doing well...quirkily well.

It sounds like your DS school should be doing the same for him. I look at it now like this...some kids walk slower than others or talk slower than others and need help to get this down pat....it doesn't mean that they have any impairments other than that skill hasn't been easy for them to grasp...having said that ASD is a wide spectrum and some people are only just meeting the criteria for a diagnoses.

Did school come up with any strategies to get DS playing with his peers?

The senco is definitely not qualified to diagnose your son and shouldnt be suggesting a diagnosis to you, it is not her job unless she has trained to be a developmental paediatrician or psychiatrist!!

However if they have concerns and want to support your son and maybe get in some outside agencies to advise them then this might help.

Children dont get diagnosed with Asd at the drop of a hat so dont panic that he is going to be "labelled" many of us on here have had to fight for years to get our childrens difficulties recognised.

One thing you probably dont want is for him to be labelled "naughty" which does happen to many children.

The school cannot get him assessed without your permission and you have the right to attend every meeting they have about him.

Good luck

Patience I refused my DDs assessment as I felt it was unnecessary....and the HT was very annoyed and told me she could force one...legally.

"Maureen* , I didnt suggest refusing assessments, just that the OP has to give her permission and can attend meetings!!

Schools do not have the right to make decisions for parents. We have the right to know exactly what is being done with our children especially with regard to interventions.

No I know you didn't suggest that...I was just trying to see if the HT had lied to me....why do you think my HT said that? It seemed really full on to me. I decided that Dd would come out of it...and she did...I knew her and told this to the HT and she said that to me. Can they force them?

Sorry OP...not hijacking.

Maureen I think there would be an awfully long process to go through for a school to force parents into assessing their child but am prepared to be corrected.

noble if your Ds's issues impact on him in a negative way on a regular basisand he doesnt start to mature out of them then there may come a time when you think that assessment is necessary.

zzzzz is right that the developmental level of our children impacts on them. My own Dd3 is in yr 6 but is developmentally around 8 so the issues going on around her are very difficult for her to handle and she has to cope with transferring to secondary school this year.

My Dd3 has a diagnosis of Asd and it has been nothing but helpful to us in terms of raising peoples awareness of the difficulties that she faces every day.

Good luck, however you decide to move forward

Patience that's what I thought at the time and there wasn't nearly enough reason, I think the HT was just annoyed because I was confident enough to say no.

Also it's very interesting what you say about emotional development.

OP you will get nothing but excellent and well informed advice here on MNSN so I hope you have a good day today and that the posters here are of some comfort.

Thanks all. I've just done the MCHAT test and got a score of 1, low risk, which is what I thought - the 'classic' signs don't seem to apply.

But then if you said to me there was a child in the class socially isolated from their peers who didn't play well with them, got frustrated easily, had a tendency to inappropriate contact, made silly noises all the time and could go on for hours about Angry Birds, then I suppose ASD might cross my mind too. To be fair to the SENCO she did say she wasn't qualified to make a diagnosis, just that she had worked with autistic children who exhibited similar behaviour. But I'd have probably guessed what she was getting at from what she said.

zzzz it is interesting what you say about age inappropriate behaviour - he is an August baby so the youngest in his year. I wonder if that doesn't help.

They are going to help his social skills by taking him out for some directed play with a classmate, modelling appropriate behaviour etc. His teacher says she doesn't want him to get left out of things and that would be pretty rubbish so at least he is getting early support.

I would think its better for them to intervene unnecessarily at this stage just in case than to ignore any issues, so I would go with it and try not to worry too much. An assessment would at least set mind at rest and be helpful if any support is needed.

No, I didn't really have any concerns. I knew he had some annoying habits, but I figured he'd grow out of them. He plays nicely with children outside of school so wasn't concerned there.

He's on the wobble cushion to help him focus and stop him grabbing the other children.

If he does get a diagnosis, I'm not going to refuse it because I know how important these things are for getting support at school (secondary teacher).

I just don't understand how a child could score 1 on that test posted above, but be suspected of having autism. Isn't the test any good?

It is supposed to be good...perhaps someone on here will come along and refute that. The SENCO should never have mentioned ASD....she's not qualified as the others have pointed out. And social skill difficulties do not ASD make....there are all kinds of other things to take into consideration OP. Does he have any other behaviours which worry you? You say his speech is fine and his eye contact...so all we've got is a child who finds sitting still hard and who might be a bit immature socially?

I don't know. I've gone overnight from being pleased with how well he has settled into school, getting on with reading etc to suddenly being worried that he has major problems, that I need to read up on neuro development and viewing everything he does as a potentially sinister symptom.

noble - my DS's CT told me that she thought he was 'on the spectrum' last year when he was 5. I thought it was very unlikely for similar reasons to the ones you cite but as time went on and I began to examine his quirks more critically, I could see that quite a lot of the things I'd dismissed were actually a bit of an issue. And some of them could be written off when he was younger but now he's nearly 7, they're making him stand out a bit more. We went through the dx process and he doesn't have ASD but they thought possibly ADHD. The NHS DX process stalled for such a long time that I got fed up and finally got him a DX privately a few months and he has sensory processing disorder and dyspraxia.

My point is that I think ASD is a bit of a catch all for primary schools to identify children who have specific learning difficulties. He may not have ASD but that doesn't mean he doesn't have some kind of other SPLD. Personally, I've found it much easier since he had his DX because it is a shorthand for me to explain his issues to people.

Odd, could you please describe the sort of thing that could be dismissed when he was younger but has become an issue now? It would be useful to know what sorts of things he might simply not grow out of, as it is easy to look at him now and think 'but he's 4, of course he will make silly noises and not be able to sit still'

Hi, … re: I know his social skills are crap with his peers, and I've been told he can't keep his hands off them, which is annoying them; he plays with much older children in the playground. He plays nicely with a friend out of school and with his cousins.

He's very bright, and a bit quirky, but when I google ASD symptoms, they are all talking about things which don't fit. Speech is fine, so is eye contact, he can recognise emotions. I don't know many other 4 year olds for comparison and I don't know what I should be looking for, or whether there is even a problem that a bit of help won't sort.

THis sounds quite like my 4 year old, [altho he has delayed speech, and is questionably "bright".] and he has just been diagnosed with ASD. I just took that test out of curiosity, and got a higher score than you, but … keep in mind that it is more for pre-schoolers, and younger, [even if it does have an age button for older kids.]

In recent months I have faced quite a lot of opposition, and senco [etc] comments, like "it's not ASD, he's such a lovely little boy, he is just a slow developer/ summer-born/ boy not girl …" etc. But, I knew in my heart of heart that there was something, and this has helped me thru. My close/most trusted friends also knew there was something, and would … from time to time tell me to keep an open mind.

The first time the issue came up was when DS was 30mths. It was a shock to be told by his experienced nursery carer, and I wanted to deny it, bt over the following months, I started to notice odd things - Not, just about my son, bt my non Dx'd husband too, who is laughably autistic at times [eg, Will only let his team submit docs in a certain font, otherwise, they aren't "easy to read". ].

I'd sleep on everything for a while, relax, and come back to it when you are ready, and see what your heart of hearts is telling you. Funnily-enuf, my DD is "unusual" too, but gifted, and doing well at school, so I see no reason to mull over her abilities. It's not going to make much difference for her, … which is another reason to choose whether to formally investigate these things further with your own DS. Do you feel he needs the extra help, that should follow a dx?
Hope this helps, and good luck.

They are things like:
Not being able to sit still, not realising it's inappropriate to get up and wander off during assembly/school concert/maths lesson etc
Humming and/or repeating sounds over and over (and over)
Being unable to follow a set of instuctions (go over to that cupboard and get the paints from the top shelf and the paper from the bottom shelf)
Wandering off
Being very overwhelmed by loud noises/crowds/hand dryers in toilets
Runs off and hides when things overwhelm him - very impulsive and unable to control those impulses
Being highly over-sensitive to food smells/textures/tastes
Unable to tell if he's hungry/thirsty/needs a wee/has hurt himself unless those feelings are very extreme
Can't hold a pencil/pen properly
Cannot control pressure when using felt pens; regularly makes holes in the paper

I could go on but you get the general gist! The teacher was a bit shocked that I hadn't realised he was 'different' but he's the only child I've ever spent that much time with so I didn't know what was 'normal' at that age. And to be honest, none of my friends had ever realised there was anything 'wrong' with him either.

He is also definitely much 'worse' at school because his disabilities are much more obvious in an environment where conforming to the norms are expected. Having said that, he is achieving well at school at the moment despite his disabilities. His inability to work without 1-2-1 support is increasingly becoming an issue though so I'm glad he's getting support and help now before it really becomes a problem.

Gosh, sorry - that's a bit of an essay! Hope it's helpful though

Hi my son sounds very similar yours. He really struggled in reception last year didn't know how to sit still, would annoy others, had very few social skills and had lots of quirks. His pre school had always said they think there could be slight ASD with him - wait and see what happens when he starts school. He was having speech therapy in reception last year and she was the one who thought he had strong traits so she referred him and he was seen by a paediatrician who again thought maybe. Anyway fast forward to now about a year from when he was referred and he is doing really really well. Socially he is still a little immature but the annoying others and the not sitting still has gone and at the last referall meeting we came to the conclusion that he was bored in reception. Academically he is very bright and he was bored last year. He is doing brilliantly this year and loves working which last year there wasn't much of as was so play based. However we have a blip this last week as his teacher has gone on early maternity leave and he is finding it really hard with change of routine and teacher and he is showing loads of ASD traits again. If you get offered a referral go with it because sometimes people fight to get one. My son is going to be seen at the end of the school yr for another review and the paediatrician will hopefully decide whether he needs to go to see the consultant for the next stage of diagnostic tests. Good luck x