growing minds? part time ABA?

[Jimjams]

At DS1's recent BIBIC review it became clear that his language hasn't really improved at all in the last 6 months. His speech is clearer, he's saying more and he understands more set phrases but his actual understanding of raw language is still nouns, set phrases and nothing else.

I think he needs ABA to get started on language at least. I've been looking around as I would basically like to add some part time therpay at home. Maybe holidays and Saturdays. Growing minds would be able to help- as they set up part time programmes using ABA and also son-rise techniques. I know someone who used them - although she's been travelling round Aus and I don't know where she is now! She said they were good alhtough quite pricey.

Before I go charging down this route does anyone have anyother ideas? MOst ABA providers I can find insist on 35 hours to begin with (and I can completely understand the reason why, but I really don't want to do a full time ABA course- and I want to keep ds1 at school- I just want an added extra- he can't fill his own time at all anyway so I think he would enjoy fairly structured Saturdays/holidays). I'm sure I could get his school to do a small amount each day as well.

The mix provided by growing minds does appeal to me- and it would be easy to make the sensory room into a playroom as well.

Also a practical question. If you employ helpers how much do you pay roughly and do you just do cash in hand or does it become more complicated?

I cannot help you of course, Jimjams, but just to say, without being too revoltingly creepy, I admire what you do for your children so much. Good luck to you and your son whatever you try with him.

Re the helpers thing, what would they have to do? Would it be possible to get people to volenteer?

I ask because I used to help out with some therapy for a boy when I was in Guides. We were always under adult supervision but all the the pack were involved. We saw it as a way to help out in the wider community and get our service stripe for it. Would this sort of thing be possible, or it it specialied stuff. It might be a help for you, and it would be positive thing for the helpers?

Hope this isn't out of line, but I found it a very positive experience when I did it as a teenager.

I don't know how easy this would be since it depends on local colleges, but one of our regular babysitters was a psychology student wanting to go on to be a clinical psychologist. She used to help on a similar program for a boy with autism a couple of half-days a week. She didn't get paid, but she was keen to do it partly through altruism, but partly for her CV. If you can tap into anything like that it would be good.

Yes volunteers are an option. I think traditionally son-rise uses volunteers whereas ABA uses paid help. Although I could be wrong.

If I wanted to try and find volunteers where would I go for them? I saw a volunteer bureau in a small town recently- are they common?

I can't decide whether volunteers or paid helpers would be the most reliable.....

Thanks Aloha- I've been feeling very guilty recently for not doing enough so that was nice. Thanks

Whe I was involved the family had placed requests with the local news paper, and the Guid gropu I was in got involved.

Volenteers would obviously be cheaper, but you could get problems with people dropping out after a while which would be bad for your ds.

Not sure who you could contact, WRVS, WI, local church groups, any service bases near you? Dh used to work for the cheshire homes when he was on the last unit, many squadrons have specific links to the community.

Jimjams, many thoughts on Growing Minds & alternatives. Recruiting, paying (or not) workers etc. BUT baby has just woken, lunch and then our first visit to Crechendo!! I will try to write something sensible later.

how about getting your own team and consultant together? This is what we have done and it works really well (as well as being alot cheaper than a provider). DS1 does around 30 hrs per week but he is 2-and-a-half and is not at school. I could imagine it to be entirely possible to have ABA just perhaps after school and at weekends.

tutors wages vary widely with the area you live in. PEACH did a survey and I think the average wage was around £10/hour. We dont pay this much but we are outside of London. Supervisors average at about £20/hour and consultants at around £70/hour.

I've been thinking of that RexandBen. I'm out in the sticks which makes it a bit harder and I'm not sure where to start looking. Any tips?

Just bringing this up to see if Davros is around?
Can't believe mumsnet crashed yesterday! I'm dying to hear your views Davros!

I had a chat to the school SENCO today and she seemed open to the idea of incorporating more ABA etc into school, and us doing a home programme. I suspect they would consider flexi-school if we wanted to go down that route.

How easy is it to employ an idividual consultant? Would many be open to the idea of part time?

Hi jimjams,

sorry for the delayed reply. If you join the yahoo group ABA-UK you can access a file of consultants and providers in the UK. Or if you like you can email me and I'll send it to you You may have to go on a waiting list but it really does depend. We got our first workshop in 6 weeks. Our consultant travels for 2 hours to get to us.

I could also let you know some names of consultants that have been recommended to me. How old is your son? I would think that the vast majority of consultants would fully support part-time - because at the end of the day our kids need to be out in the society, don't they.

Are you thinking about Lovaas or VB?

Its great that the SENCO is willing to include ABA in the school.

If you've got any questions please feel free to ask away.

thanks - I joined ABA-UK about a year ago but have been no mail for ages- I've just reset to receive mail.

I'll have a look at the files.

Hopefully there's someone in Bristol- becuase then it becomes manageable. I'm trying to arrange so I can see Nancy Kaufman's talk in Leatherhead or Manchester but its turning into a 2 day affair. We live in a lovely part of the country but miles from anywhere (except the beach )

Oh gosh I'm not very good on the difference between lovaas and vb, i thought they were basically the same. I have a very visual learner- does that favour one or the other?

DS1 is 4- he'll be 5 in May, so i think I need to get my skates on a bit. We thought about ABA when he was 2ish, but at the time he didn't seem that bad- just had a dx of "mild language delay" I remember a friend sayng it would be like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Hindsight is a wonderful thing

Thanks for your help. I'm going to do a lot of searching tonight (I work Tues nights so couldn't do it last night).

Hi Jimjams, sorry I haven't been around. Long hospital appt for me yesterday and today baby has got a face covered in spots so down to Drs who said it could be chickenpox or it might not be!! You know better than anyone how worried I am about her having anything, esp CP at only 10.5 mos Though it might not be..... I now have to keep her in. I'm supposed to be writing the agenda for our support group meeting tomorrow night as no time tomorrow, moan groan

So just a quickie. Get the list from RexandBen and you'll see there's more people available than you might think and I think I know of one or two not on there. You could always ask the question on ABA-UK about your area. Personally I think Lovaas is a better start-up prog than VB but they're both ABA so either is good. I'm not sure abot Growing Minds, they have described and packaged what I think any ABA program should include and I'm a bit uncomfortable with the packaging and branding (possibly therefore higher cost).
My TOP piece of advice is to get as much input at the beginning as you can from a supervisor who you see every week or every other week, depending on the number of hours you do. Ideally you need someone who KNOWS your child and who you have access to outside their visits to your home. If you can manage to scrape together enough £££ I really think this is the most important thing. You need this person, not only to train you and whoever you recruit, but to be able to observe your child, add or drop targets to teach, alter how things are taught/presented etc. I think if you can afford someone good its much better than DIY or "drive-thru" but, of course, it can be done without so much input but I think its an investment worth making if you can and IMHO its worth spending as much as you can in the first 6 mos/year.
As far as recruiting and paying workers goes, I don't think you should get hung up on looking for people with experience although they're always useful. Local students who have the right personality, are interested in the theory and who love children are by far the best people. You may also come across people here and there, at playgroup, nursery, maybe a friend whose been a teacher etc, you really have to think creatively about everyone you come across. I'm afraid that some of the more "experienced" therapists have become very greedy and it has caused there to be competition among families. Personally, I don't get involved in that but I've been doing this for 6 years and we're only part-time now (maybe soon to be school only..... another story). If you do meet anyone experienced, don't just ask about the number of months/years they've worked, but also the number of children and their level of functioning. ALWAYS get recent references and PHONE the other families. I think anyone experienced should know basic PECs and Makaton and be willing to use both. As for pay, I'm in Hampstead and I pay new/inexperienced people £7ph to start, going up to £8ph after 3 mos and maybe up to £9ph after 6 mos if I'm happy. Of course, I'm not doing a fulltime prog but you're not planning to either. When we had a fulltime prog I had some more expensive people but we were funded by our LEA and then the highest was £12.50ph and I had to put a stop to that! Ways to pay, do some of the work yourself (ugh, I never did!), put DLA etc towards it (already used up no doubt), create separate room and try to get reduction in Council Tax and........ try to get direct payments from soc svs, you can use this to pay someone to work/play with your child so they can easily be doing ABA and you use the payments for this. This is why I eventually got round to tackling the Soc Svs issue. Have you joined PEACh? I think its essential, if nothing else to get the newsletter and be part of the community. You can get a list of providers etc from them too. I would just go down the lists and call each one including Growing Minds, whittle them down until you find what you're looking for.
Ho hum that was a short one!!! I've written it quite spontaneously as short of time so if some of its sounds rubbish or you think I can give you more info, please post and let us know what happens! It could be a godsend for the summer hols for instance, even to get some exposure yourself and learn a bit. If you can, visit other families if there are any near to you, you should be able to find that out from PEACh or ABA-UK too.

Thanks Davros. I downloaded the list- did you write it? (was doing some reading on the archives). It's a very helpful list.

I have emailed "DF" tonight- sure you'll know who I mean- as I spoke to him yesterday about Nancy Kaufman -and he replied quickly. Just to get an idea of cost etc, and whether part time is remotely sensible. I'm sure being out in the sticks will make it pricier Just depends how much.

I will post on ABA-UK- although my friend has just asked a similar question tonight. I doubt we will get anyone experienced down here- but we live a mile away form a University. There is also a SALT training college down here so I figured I could probably find students.

I agree with you about the importance of hands on- this was what was helpful with BIBC- actually seeing the therapists and them understanding your child by working with them.

This is all quite exciting. Just hope someone is happy to take us on part time.

Hope hospital appointment wasn't too tedious.
Don't worry about the chickenpox- that's the one thing that ds1 had very mildly - it's good for their immune system to "practice". I would leave 6 months between chickenpox and the measles jab though (Paul Shattock's advice). Hope she's not too itchy scratchy. And yesa I know exactly what you mean. I have decided that I would like Ds2 to have tetanus vacc but all the single ones come with thimerosil and I get in a cold sweat when I think about it.

Have to organise Nancy Kaufman now- will try and go to Leatherhead I think- it's going to be good value if ds2 is verb dyspraxic as well!

Aaargh! I've been outed, yes I did write it. I'm sure someone will do part-time, lots of parents are doing it for all sorts of reasons and some of the more established svs providers are now realising that they are missing out by not offering it. DF is interesting, he has many detractors and I could tell you a few stories but I do respect him and think he knows his stuff. He does have an interest in "selling" one method over another for reasons not obviious at first. Now I'm outed you can email me direct if you want. The student pool where you are sounds good, especially the SLT ones. I've put together many an advert in the past if you want to plunder. Some of the unis have student employment services or an individual in charge of this and some have EGroup-type things for students doing the same subject, worth digging away at what is there. We seem to be doing an exchange with me approaching BIBIC the same week you get stuck into pursuing ABA

Ooh I'm interested in the gossip. I'm emailing you direct in 2 seconds. if you can recommend anyone else to contact. I thought about that welsh woman but I think she will be hours away form me.

Had to contact you via mumsnet as I couldn't work out how to do it via ABA-UK.

Forgot to put my real name in the message though -durr.

Have you spoken to BIBIC yet btw? We have to get going on our new programme.

Hi jimjams,

I saw your post on ABA-UK. I'd just like to say that if you decide to go to the Carbone Worshop #1 that I will be there

Apparently Carbone is VERY good and several people I have met say it is the best money they have spent on their programme

I'm going to check it out. Bath is obviously easy for me to reach, so I'm tempted.

Steeling myself to look at the price

oh hang on I'm confused. It's 3 days in Sunderland. Unfortunately it overlaps with the start of our motorhome holiday.

Hi JimJams,

it's 3 days in Newcastle actually! starts 31st March. Costs £290 for the conference and £55/night to stay at the venue. Lots of money, I know!

So Jimjams, you too are outed!! I got your long and complicated message direct via MN. What a lovely week I've had as have just been in the dentist's chair with my mouth open for an hour, and without being able to say anything! I will email you privately too in a min.
As an old hand (and a rather cynical one at that) I saw Drs Carbone & McGreevy the first time they came to the UK and found it only moderately interesting. I can't understand why people find it so inspiring but if they do then I suppose that's all that matters. I didn't think his videos were very good and I couldn't get a straight answer about chldren who DO NOT become vocal. I also don't like the default of using video as a reinforcer. I do think Dr C & McG are extremely genuine and good at what they do but getting real access to that expertise is not so easy. When I saw them we had been doing signing for a couple of years so that was not the revelation to me that it seemed to be to some others. I was going to suggest Bridgit as she has moved to Devon and is very highly spoken of. She is having a baby soon but I don't know what she will be doing work-wise after that, defintely worth contacting her. What about the training/conference in May in Bath? or is that too advanced, reading the blurb it didn't seem so. I know someone here who is thinking of bringing Dr Partington over sometime soon which would be interesting. My problem with all these very senior people is that it doesn't get you much day-to-day support and I found that really the most useful and helpful thing.
P.S. Thanks for info on Chickenpox, I got a link from my friend who went to Pfeiffer and it doesn't look anyting like it!
P.P.S. waiting for someting in post from BIBIC, wil get on to them if it doesn't arrive soon

Just replied by email- your descriptions had me laughing out loud.

Just read the bit about chickenpox- if she gets ill, or the spots are surrounded by a little pit get her seen to make sure it isn't eczema herpeticum. DS1's e herpeticum was initially mistaken (by me) for chickenpox. It can be nasty so worth checking out. GP's don't know much about it though.

Hope she's better soon. Dentist yuck!