Starting school for speech delayed son

[septembersunshine]

Hi all,
My son is nearly four and although he won't be starting school till next September I am really worried about how he will cope. He has very little language and no joining words at all. How will he cope at school? he is being assessed at a child development unit next week and we are waiting for a report on his language (he was assessed recently) but it looks like he has some autistic traits. He has been terrible recently, if I take him to a supermarket he screams at random people and hits them sometimes :( He seems a bit better recently but we have real issues with lifts and escalators.. and people, and cars.. pretty much anything can be a problem for him.

He doesn't play in the normal sense but pushes things around the floor. He won't have his hair cut or washed and is scared by loud noises and sudden movements. He can have explosive tantrums. On the other hand he is very cuddly, lots of eye contact, can pretend play with his sisters and has a great sense of humour and will laugh at 'funny bits' on cbeebies. His nursery always say 'he is a lovely boy but.....' . I am dyslexic and was very late to develop and my husband is from a family of late developers (you know the kind.. 'he didn't say word till he was 4 and then it all came out'...)

The school he is going to is very busy with 60 kids in the foundation year. I guess I'm just worried he will be totally overwelmed by the noise and the amount of kids. Do schools help the kids who have no or little langauge? I have spent an obsessive morning looking at the proscpects and website and trying to work out if the school will be ok or not, there is another one 2 miles away that is tiny and I'm wondering if that's a better enviroment for him...I am just really worried for him and feel very anxious that he won't be able to tell people he is sad or upset about something...

Does he have a diagnosis? is he being asessed for anything?

My dd2 has ASD and severe language delay, she was almost non-verbal when she started school (almost 2 years ago), she went into school with a diagnosis of ASD and had a statement for 30hrs 1:1 (TA), she's in MS school and has done great. Luckily the schools around here are tiny and theres only 13 children in her year group (which has really helped) and she has a TA who is great with her. She can now talk (when she wants to) and the school have put lots of help in place for her.

I would try and get him into the smaller school if you can (it will be worth it).

He is being assessed next week at a child development unit. I'm a bundle of nerves. I know he has another year yet but his development is slow to none.

We are moving to another county next month and have picked the school in the village for my older daughter and then of course he will follow next year.... this is the thing I am worried about. They do seem to have provision for special needs kids so I guess we will see what happens, its a COE school (this is the only one in the village and it seems to be ok even if your not religious... I don't know how this sits with me because I'm not at all... but it's a terrific school otherwise) it seems to have a very caring ethos which is great but I still don't know if it's size will be ok with my son or he will just sit in a cornor with his back against the wall

Marne - great news about your daughter doing so well. I'll keep what you said about a smaller school in mind and if it all starts going wrong I'm going to move him to the little one in the next village

Can you afford private assessments? I have had to do this with my DS to make the NHS sit up. It could well be language disorder rather than just delay. If it doesn't suddenly all come out within a month or two of him turning 4 I would get him privately assessed by a SALT who specialises in language disorders, ASD etc. If you live in the SE I can recommend someone. Also look up Daphne Keen who is qualified to diagnose ASD and other neurogical disorders. Even privately her waiting list is long (I called in February and my DS is being assessed by her at the end of July).

However, the report from the SALT which confirms he has a severe language disorder and the report from the OT confirming he has Sensory Processing Disorder should be enough to get him a statement by year 1. I wish I had started the process earlier but I was hoping something magical would happen at age 4, which it didn't.

Children with speech delay will talk, just a bit later. Children with language disorders will not learn language unless specifically taught pronouns, prepositions etc. The NHS SALT reported that he had an expressive delay only and that his receptive language was normal. Great we thought. Unfortunately, she only tested his single word understanding which doesn't mean there is no language disorder, just that the child is of average intelligence, ie no other learning difficulties. Turns out his receptive language (apart from single words) is on the 1st percentile for structural language - that is very severe.

I'm waffling but please don't delay any more there is nothing to be gained by waiting and nothing to be lost by taking action. My DS is having conversations with us now but it is only happening with a lot of intense hard work. The SALT gives us tasks every week. He also has VBA even though we don't know if he has ASD as like your son he doesn't fit all the criteria.

A year goes in no time - if you can possibly afford it, the best thing for your son would be for his new school to have a full picture of him and his needs before he starts school. Get his nursery to log all incidents such as hitting - as this will be evidence for a statement which ideally you should have in place before your DS starts school.

Without a statement there is no legal obligation on the school to make allowances for your DS's lack of language, that's the bottom line.

Soutty, thank you so much for this information. So far he has had a lauguage assesment in April and we are still waiting for the report. It's very frustrating. The health visitor said she was chasing it up but that was a month ago and we've heard nothing from her. I've given up now since we are moving.

I guess I am waiting for it to suddenly click with him but like you say it might never happen. He has started to say 'I want...' a bit more but he is lazy with it and all langauge in general. He still speaks like a baby 'mummy coming' instead of 'mummy is coming'. Like I say, all joining words are missing and lots of sounds too. He loves Mr. Tumble on something special and repeating after him and he has picked up bits of sigh language too (the speech lady said he was doing the sign for doctor when she started talking about doctors and hospital - we didn't even know his memory was that good..)

If nothing happens after this ped assesment next Friday. I am confused about what is wrong with him - he really can seem like any other boy of his age (bar the langauge) but then he does a few 'odd' things that make you think. We just don't know. My mum said I was very funny about wearing socks for two years when I was little and had odd behavious so maybe he'll grow out of it (or not..).

I'll do has you suggest and get him down on the list for private help. I'm going to write down all the info you have given me and start to find one in our new local area - I have given up on the NHS, things are taking an age and the sooner he gets help the better life will be for him. Thank you for taking the time to write - I really do appriciate it.

A lot can happen in a year (as i have found out), a year before dd2 started school a pead told me that dd2 would amount to nothing 'theres nothing there' was he exact words, we were told she would not go to MS and would need a lot of help in sn school. In the months after we begain to see huge changes, we sent her to MS nursery as well as the SN nursery she was attending, we secured a statement and we applied for sn school (as pead sugested), we were turned down a place at sn school as they felt dd2 would be better around more verbal children. I was devistated and worried sick that dd2 would not cope. She started at a tiny school, she was one of 3 children starting that year. It took a while for her to settle but she did well, after a year we moved her to a slightly bigger school (where she is now) and she is improving every day. She's still behind with her speach but is top of her class for most subjects (she enjoys maths and reading).

If you had asked me 3 years ago 'where do you see dd2 in 3 years time' theres no way it would be where she is now. She suprises me every day.

We don't know if she will stay in MS forever, we have to take each year as it comes but so far its looking good for her.

septembersunshine, you're welcome. Please PM me if you need recommendations.

Also, you say he is "lazy" but you don't know that - children with language disorders don't pick up language much beyond nouns. We said all this about my son - "a typical boy!" explained the tantrums plus his older sister was late to talk so we said, well it runs in the family. Then when he wasn't talking in sentences by the time she was we said "he's just lazy".

Meanwhile, time was ticking by without him getting the specialist help he so desperately needed. In hindsight I wish I'd erred on the side of caution from when he was 2 instead of hoping for the best until he turned 4.

At the end of the day, if help isn't needed it does no harm but the longer a child who needs specialist help doesn't get it, the wider the developmental gaps become.

It is wrong to write children off at a young age Marne, but at least your child's needs were taken seriously and she got a statement which gave her access to help which enabled her to fulfil her potential. You must be delighted that she is doing so well. While it may seem kinder at the time, it's far worse when a paediatrician and speech therapist tell you your child is fine, no ASD, just a bit of speech delay and you trot off home happily only to find your child barely progresses in a year and then turns out to have a severe learning disability when you get private assessments later on. That's what's happened to my son. I would have rather got the bad news 18-12 months ago from the NHS than now, just before he is about to start school.

Ha haa marne! actually a teacher told my mum something similar about me.. along the lines off 'she will amount to nothing'. I am dyslexic and this was missed at primary school but I had all the signs and was a very poor learner. Strangly the higher you get in education the less spelling, grammer and other problems with your work (that are marked down) matter, it's the imagination and the thinking behind things that shine. I got to university, did my three years and at the graduation my tutor said - 'you have done very well for a dyslexic student.' - NEWS TO ME!!
I'm very pleased to hear your daughter is going from strengh to strengh. It's amazing she is top of her class for lots of things - I can't believe that will ever happen for Jack but I keep reminding myself not to write him off because of his learning issues (which is hard because his sister, 16 months younger is very very advanced for her age - almost gifted and it makes his difference even more marked). I am desperate for him not to fall through the gaps.
Thank you all for your support and suggestions. His assessment for the autisum and other developmental problems is next Friday and I'll post back and let you know how it went.

My son started MS reception in a school thought to be experienced with sn, without a statement of educational need and without a diagnosis, with very little language and frankly it was a disaster. He had little support and they were too busy to implement the speech therapists recommendations (such as visual timetables). His behaviour and happiness - manageable at home with 1:1 was quite another thing in a busy noisy classroom.
So no schools do not always give the support that is needed. So do not assume (as I did) that when teachers say they can provide support that they will. Having said that now you are forwarned that you will most likely have to push for appropriate support and if needed apply for a statement. By the way my ds was not borderline for SEN - he now has a dx of autism with mod/sev LD and he still was left unsupported until I took the reigns myself and got private assessments and applied for a statment. I agree with the others. A year can be a long time but it can take a good year to get all the assessments in place and get a statement ( if needed) in place. For us it was much harder to start all this off after ds started school as he had to be seen to seriously fail. Good luck.

Soutty, sorry, I didn't mean to say my son was 'lazy' it just appears that way at time because I have heard him say and ask for things many times 'I want a kiss' (at bedtimes) 'I want my coat' or and other times he just says the bare minimum - just the word 'Kiss' or 'coat' or will just point to it. It's frustrating because I know he can say more then one word but at times chooses not to. I do appriciate all your input and now I know that the support he needs doesn't just fall in your lap - that you have to push for it and very hard too, then I can start to get organised (before he starts school...). Thanks all.

I didn't mean to sound critical. I think we all try to come up with explanations when our children aren't developing in the way we expect. The only way to end the speculation and find out what help our children need is by getting the experts in to assess.

Good luck and please keep posting. There are lots of knowledgeable people on here who can help.

I wish we could edit posts - my DS does the same - he can speak in sentences but sometimes he gets frustrated and uses one word or points. That's part of his language disorder - sometimes the words come easily to him but sometimes they don't. Until your DS is properly assessed you really won't know what the problem is.

In the meantime you can try withholding the item that your DS wants until he says a full sentence. If he doesn't say it and gets frustrated then model the sentence for him and wait for him to copy it. Then praise him and give him what he wants. That should help to motivate him to speak in full sentences.

september- he sounds very similar to dd2 with his speach, she will often say 'drink' when she wants a drink but is capable of saying 'please can i have a drink', she choses to use the least amount of words as possable to get her point across, i constantly have to prompt her and correct her to get her to say more than one word.

Can I jump in on this really useful thread to ask those of you whose dc have already started school, did your dc know they were different at a young age and did they make friends?

My dd will be starting school in September with speech and language problems, her SALT hasn't given us a specific diagnosis like those about but it stems from hearing loss.

Anyway at her preschool other children have started to ignore her and call her stupid and she is getting upset about it, so much so that she has stopped trying to communicate verbally in that setting and just plays physically with other children.

I am really worried what will happen when she starts school.

Should I push for a more detailed diagnosis?

Hi YouBrokeMySmoulder

I would push for a full test to screen out a language disorder. The one my son did took 45 minutes. It may well be that your DD just has a delay due to hearing loss but better safe than sorry. Also it sounds like she needs intensive speech therapy to catch up and if she isn't getting that on the NHS you might have to consider getting someone really good privately. My private SALT is briliant - I can't afford for her to come once a week but she gives so much to do between sessions and shows me how to do it. Even if you can only afford one session a month it will be worth it if you get a really good SALT.

As for the pre-school, I'd be considering moving my child if that was happening. Can you have a word with the staff? They need to do something about this - that means making a big deal of the golden rules of being kind and gentle and saying only nice words to each other and time-outing children who call other children names like "stupid".

Thanks Soutty - how do you get a full screen? She is having once a week SALT at present and is making progress - ie she learnt her in/on really quickly but is still struggling with he/she in sentences. She also has trouble describing pictures etc. It is definately not just her speech. She also cant recognise her own name or repeat nursery rhymes etc.

She only has a couple of months to go with the preschool and when I complained they took it on board - they have a really good SENCO there. Although the local authority won't do anything formally with dd as she 'isnt bad enough'.

I confess I haven't read all the posts in detail but did read OP and seems a very familiar story. DD started in MS last September in an extremely busy noisy class of over 30 children. She was (and still is) completely non verbal with suspected ASD. We still don't have a dx, anther story, don't get me started! . We had managed to get a few things in place before she started MS school so she had a lovely TA 1:1 but this lady had no official qualifications in SALT etc so was more like a babysitter.
She saw the EP in her second week (again arranged before she started) who commented that she was having difficulty coping with the busy environment. She has since moved, on recommendation from EP, to an observation unit which has only 10 max kids in it. Suits DD much better.
My recommendation would be that if you have a choice then I would go for the smaller quieter one. And if you don't have a choice then try and get him in there anyway!

I agree that a small setting may be best. DS started in a dual placement with mainstream ans special school. He could talk, but not much and he tended to get sentences stuck and repeat them all the time. IIRC it was the "what's your name?" ad infinitum phase. One of the problems was with mixing in the ms setting - the other kids did talk to him but because he was not responding to them they quickly lost interest. He was (is) much better in the ss, so we pulled him out of mainstream (not just for the communication issue there were a lot of problems due to his physical disabilities and medical needs).

A quieter setting/unit/ss doesn't have to be forever either. movement back into ms can and does happen it things change.

That is currently our situation starfishmummy. DD will spend approx two terms in this unit then they will decide where is the next best step. Her teacher made that very point last week when I spoke to her about what happens next. "nothing is forever these days. If the environment is not suitable for the child then the child won't be forced to remain in that environment". I'd love to believe her but from reading many posts on here I realise it's not always that easy. Her comment that DD is "a complex child" did nothing to reassure me either!

Youbrokemyshoulder - I was recommended a good private SALT with 27 years experience dealing with children with complex language disorders and other learning difficulties/disabilities.

My experience with the NHS has been abysmal. I was told there was nothing much wrong with DS, sent on a patronising Lets Get Talking! course which advised me to, well, talk to my child and try to extend his words by one at a time and other obvious rubbish. When I complained that this wasn't helping him much I was offered parenting classes. Then I was told he was making progress and patted on the head. Then the SALT left and he (their words not mine) "slipped through the net" for almost a year despite me calling. He only stopped "slipping through the net" when my private SALT called them and followed the call up by sending through my son's 29 page report diagnosing a severe and complex language disorder. So don't ask me how to go about doing this on the NHS - the only way I've got them to take any notice at all is to get the best private SALT I could afford, send them her report and let them deal with it. As a result, DS has his first NHS S&L appointment in 9 months in 3 weeks' time. Whoopee. No doubt they will eulogise about how much progress he's made no thanks to them.

My advice is to go private and get someone with lots of experience in complex language disorders and special needs. No good getting someone with 5 years' experience who's only dealt with children who stutter or can't say their rs.

Soutty - did you say you can recommend someone in the SE? Can you PM me? Lovely though our private SALT is I think that is exactly the problem - that she is used to dealing with stutterers etc. She was surprised last week that dd had grasped something quickly but then doesnt say anything when I explain how non-verbal dd is with other dc.

I have also been told to repeat things back in full sentences and to read more and all the rest of the low-level advice that I have been doing her whole life. It is very frustrating. Other friends are telling me to relax about it and stop worrying which is ridiculous - she cant repeat back more than a few words without forgetting and cant describe what we did ten minutes before or recognise any numbers etc.

Yes YBMS I will PM you her details

Hello Soutty, I dont have pm , but I was wondering if you would mind giving me the details of your SALT, we are in much the same situation here and our son is starting school this september and the worry is making me ill.

I know I am six years late to this, but after a google search have found this thread.

My DS is four and has been diagnosed with DLD. I am very anxious about him starting school in September and I was just wondering how your little ones got on in the end?

DD2 has dyspraxia and verbal dyspraxia. Started school with about 50% of what she was saying intelligible to someone who was "tuned in" to her speech (no SALT as we've been on the waiting list for nearly a year).

School (admittedly I got a bloody good one on this) has been absolutely the making of her with it - because the SALT situation is dreadful they put together the best intervention programmes they could from previous children's booklets they'd had from SALT, lots of small group speaking and listening work and now she's intelligible pretty much 100% of the time (unless she's having a whinge).

I won't lie and say socially it was easy to start with - we had some rotten times with kids just walking away from her attempting to chat to them (combination of a kid who looks slightly off-centre, personal space issues and her speech) and I don't personally think the school dealt with that particular aspect as well as they could have... but now, apart from 2 little pieces of work in the class, she's accepted by everyone and gets on just like any other kid in the school. Her speech is still "different", with some sounds being swapped for ones she can say - but even when she substitutes the same sound for a few different phonemes (she doesn't differentiate between things like ch/sh/j in her speech for example) - she can distinguish them in phonics and her writing so it's not affected her learning too much either.

Like I say though - I got bloody lucky with the school though (considering it was a last minute as fuck change for somewhere that just had the spaces when our original choice was going to be incredibly, horribly wrong).