Special schools

[Blandmum]

I just want to post here to vent a little and to say how much I regret the closure of specila schools

Thanks to MN and the fab people on the SN area I have abetter than average understabnding of SN than most teachers. But today.. Oh boy.

I spent a lesson with a child who is totaly incapable of coping with mainstram. I have a class of 18, no asssitance, many children on the SN regester.

One poor child simply cannot cope. On the ASD spectrum. I followed the IEP to the letter but the child spent the lesson shuttling between my class and the SN facility getting more and more overwhelmed and out of it. The student didn't learn anything, the rest of the class didn't learn anything and I left the lesson an emotional and physical wreck

Inclusion is meaningless if a child cannot cope! What a waste to this poor child!

That's why ds1 was sent to mainstream. We "weren't allowed" to look around special schools when he was 4 (I was naieve=stupid; if they tried that one now) because he was "coping in a mainstream setting". Um well not exactly the mainstream setting was run by someone who has a fascination with autism, lots of experience, funded herself to go on PECS courses and now volunteers at an autism specialist school.

Mainstream was an out and out disaster. It was difficult for the school and my son was mistreated. He is so different now.

So much for parental choice! Our children have such diverse additional needs that no one system can possibly cater for all. Surely we need a mixture of quality provision - mainstream with support, specialist resource facilities attached to mainstream plus special schools too to adequately meet the needs of our children.

Having been at an excellent special nursery resource unit attached to m/s (27 miles away though)we had to make a choice for primary provision. My DD now attends a small special school closer to home. She loves it.I really believe her education is more 'inclusive' there in that she can access more of the curriculum and things are tailored to her needs. She is given plenty of opportunities for integration too. It is right for her, which is what matters most.

Sounds like you're doing a good job under crap conditions MB! I think closing special schools is absolutely scandelous. Inclusion is fine in principal for some children - as long as it's properly resourced which it rarely seems to be - and there is an alternative for the kids it doesn't suit. The children I know in special schools are doing really well because they are in a school that meets their precice needs in a way that mainstream just couldn't. I do think though that part of the problem is that some parents want inclusion for their children at all costs. DS1 is in a class with a severely autistic child. Apparantly her parents are absolutely thrilled at how well she is being supported within the school and say she is doing really well - my DS tells me that nobody talks to her because she can be violent, and a lot of kids make fun of her behind her back. Obviously I'm telling my child that this is totally unacceptable behaviour, how nasty it is and how I hope he's not joining it etc., but I do wonder how happy this child really is and is her education under these circumstances really "inclusive".

Worse than being financially driven I think it is (also) very much ideology (sp?) driven which is almost more dangerous, basically the same principles as Care in the Community. Great when its appropriate and works but disastrous when it doesn't and there has to be an alternative.
I think Inclusion is particularly inappropriate for severely/non-verbal children with ASD but can be VERY meaningful for children with other disabilities who want/need to communicate and learn in the same way as NT peers, just slower and stranger iyswim who would pay attention to "good" peer role models. There is a boy in DS's school who is the only one not on the autistic spectrum and he is DESPERATE to socialise and communicate. It think its a wrong placement. I've known a lot of children with ASD all over the spectrum who have gone to m/s primary school, always will fulltime 1:1 from someone who knows them and works at home with them too. But NONE have/are going to m/s secondary.....

Something I forgot to say, is that I've seen many, many times a child go to m/s because of how their parents feel about accepting special school. I know its not nice to say, but I've known a good number who would be better off in special school (if they can get one!) but their parents can't handle it and can't accept that the special school population is their peers (grammar!?)

My ds has been diagnoised with ASD and attended one main stream which was a total disaster the school were terrible. His new main stream school are really good and I think it's also about how much the school are prepared to really help the child which makes such a difference . ds does have one to one support.

I agree with davros I think secondary school is a different ball game and I will have to wait and see how ds progesses. I think the trouble is there is no in between for SEN schools, very few with some extremes and may not be suitable for the child.

I found dealing with the education system very frustrating and upsetting. I just feel sorry for this child of 11 years, it appears it could be another that slipped through the net. larsxx

it boils down to money doesn't it? special schools are vastly expensive to run
i've taught in a special school ( MLD. SLD EBD) for 7 years now and I LOVE it. I'd never return to mainstream, and as far as I know, the LEA has no plans to shut it down. Our young people absolutety wouldn't cope in a mainstream setting

I must say I was offered a residential school, when the first main stream school didn't work. What kind of choice was that? I was also told that it cost lots of money to put a child in there.
I found it was not what I was looking for and there was not much choice due to closures. larsxx

hana, I totaly agree with you that this is all about funding. And cynicaly it is dressed up as equal ops.

Of course it is cheaper to put children in mainstream where one teacher works with 20+ kids, over a special school that may have 1 adult to 1 child.

We get a leaflet telling us how to deal with a child's neads, and that is somehow supposed to equate with fully trained staff. Insulting and so damaging to the children.

This isn't putting in a ramp so that someone in a wheelchair can get inot the room, or usinf induction coils for a child who is deaf. THis is about trying to integrate children who's SEN effectivly exclude them from the class that they are supposidly 'included' into!

It makes me so angry that all I seem to teach these children is that they 'fail'. When in reality is is the education system that is failing them

all you teachers in mainstream, get yourself to a special school if they aren't all shut down, it's an extra 2 points
small classes
much better behaviour than mainstream
excellent support systems
not bad parental involvement
lots of extras = we are funded for so many things, large multinationals and other companies like to be seen doing 'their bit' for children with special needs, we have lots of trips to theatre, residentials , sports days, et ce tc

at least this is my experience

Are you in England, mb? If so, what is the senco playing at? Why hasn't she got interim funding from the lea for a support worker? If this is impossible- and it shouldn't be- what is she doing with his school action plus funding? Sounds like a nightmare for this poor boy and consequently the rest of you.

Yes I am in the UK. The child isn't statemented....is also totaly oppesed to having an LSW in the class and will run away if you try to give him one. This is in year 7 and there is no statement.

How we are suppoed to support the child when an LSW it totaly rejected I am at a loss to explain.This child will not comply with any instructions at all, no matter how clearly and sequntialy given

Not sure about sn school being more expensive.Staff wise we have 1 teacher:10 kids plus 2/3/4 LSAs in a class.Ms 1:1
Resources can be shared instead of having a set for each child as in ms.
OT/PT/SALT- one visit to see a group rather than more travelling time.
The major budget is on life skills trips out.
We do get a lot of donations too!

We have a lot of children come from 1:1 in ms and after settling they work in small groups with 1:3 support .We also have the probelm where a lot of 1:1 in ms are 'helping' too much and the child believes they can't do things for themselves and won't try.

Agree with Davros. Sometimes other parents look really shocked when I say where ds1 goes to school (presumably because its SLD/PMLD) which I always follow up with saying how wonderful it is, and how much easier our lives have been since he started there, and how much happier he is.

I'm not sure about expense either. Apparently (according to the ofsted report) the cost per child at ds'1's SLD/PMLD school is something like £11 000 a year (presumably transport is on top). Given that at mainstream he had full time 1:1 support, SALT, autism outreach, IT outreach, Ed psychs, OT all going in on a regular basis it can't have been much cheaper

nikkie, the smallest class I teach is 18. In that class I have 6 children on the SEN regester. The governemnt is paying me to teach 18 kids. My biggest class is 29 children. there is also a boy on the SEN regester....statemented BTW, so if you have a teacher child ratio of 1 to 10 your kids are costing at least twice that of the children with SEN that I work with.

Now granted it is money very well spent. But it is cheaper to sent them MS, purely of pupil teacher ratio costs

But the touble is JJ, that kids don't get 100% 1 to 1 in mainstream....they should do, they need it, but I have only seen this happen once*

At most our kids get assistance for 50% of the time.

In the class of 18 that I teach I have no support at all.

Scummymummy - you sound as though you know about the funding. What sort of funding might a child on SA+ attract?

We have a yr8 class (MS secondary) with 3 statemented children, and at least 2 others on SA+, possibly more, and several on SA. In some subjects there is one LSA in this class, in some subjects there is no support - just the teacher and 28 kids!

That sounds horribly familier Roisin

IME a lot of children who have, say, 20 hrs 1:1 on their statement in primary school, lose the vast majority of it when they move to secondary.

Or even if they have 1 to 1, it gets diluted in the classes, with LSWs helping with other children who have SEN, but no funding at all.

And I know it shouldn't happen, but it does

ds1 did MB, so the cost for him in mainstream was presumably approx the same as in special school. I was asked to keep him at home on days when his LSA was away, and he used to run away all the time. In fact he spent most of his year + walking round the school with an LSA in tow. What a waste of a salary. In his case it was ideology (not mine) that had him there.

nikkie- our PTA fundraises for the social skills trips out stuff (which all students do weekly). Ds1's school has 100 ish pupils- and the PTA raised over twenty grand last year They've refurbished the hydrotherapy pool as well.