Discipling an autistic child - how do you do it?

[Eulalia]

I?d like some advice about how to discipline my autistic child. Ds has just turned 4 and has actually improved greatly in his behaviour towards others recently. He went through a phase of hitting and pushing other children but since his speech has improved this has abated. However he still picks on his sister aged 15 months. Unfortunately she is at that stage of getting into everything and the two of them often clash. I try to keep them apart as much as possible but dd wants to involve herself in what he is doing. Ds won?t play with her but tends to ignore her (at best!) or push her away. Sometimes after reminding he will get her a toy instead. He also bosses her and is always saying ?don?t do that? and will pull or push her away (it?s difficult as she is often doing something she shouldn?t be!) In general he seems to just find her annoying most of the time. I know this is the case with most siblings but I don?t know how to discipline him. I tend to give him some allowances for his autism but sometimes it just looks like he is being plain horrible to her. On occasions she?ll just be standing doing absolutely nothing and he will push her. I don?t understand what is driving this. I try to give them both lots of hugs and attention.

I?ve read a few books and they stress tactics such as avoidance and prevention which I practice up to a point but it is nigh impossible to foresee every event. The books I?ve read don?t discuss the conflicts that arise between an autistic and non-autistic sibling. I try to explain but it seems like he doesn?t listen and often he?ll just make a shouting ?ahhh? noise back at me if I try talking to him. Smacking I think makes him realise he?s doing something naughty but I am not really happy with doing this. I am obviously protective of dd. One time I had strapped them into the car and came out of the house and found ds banging dd on the head with a toy and I just took it out of his hand and banged it onto his head and said ?that?s what it feels like!? Is this a totally childish response? I am supposed to be going on some sort of a course but this isn?t offered till his formal assessment in October. In the meantime I am muddling through.

I don?t think he?s any more badly behaved than a normal high-spirited 4 year old and in some respects he?s very good but I need some suggestions on how to cope with bad behaviour and if this is truly ?bad? behaviour and how much of it is autism and how much naughtiness. Thanks.

dinosaur - that's just how I feel that ds is 'winning' by imposing his will on dd. I have just taken to dragging ds away if he doesn't respond to words. Often he just repeats my command straight back to me - very frustrating! I don't think moving a child away could be called physical punishment. I do lots of soothing to dd to show ds that she needs consoling. Don't know if he realises that it is him that has upset her though. Sometimes he is genuinely trying to 'help' by moving her (ie dragging her) from something but other times he just pushes her if she is in the way. I don't think there are any answers just that they will learn eventually that there are negative consequences to hurting others. I keep thinking surely my ds will get bored of this some day!

I've noticed that he seems unable to differentiate between adults and small children (although realises that babies are different). dd often climbs onto my lap and will bounce about and then ds sees this, climbs on also, pushing her off and proceeds to copy her which is bloody painful!

Good luck to you and let me know if you have any tips and I will do the same.

ds1 can be similar- not realising. For example if I said to ds1 " give the car to ds2" and ds2 ran away (he thinks thats funny) then in order to carry out the command ds1 has been known to grab ds2 by the hair, and hold him whilst giving him the car. tricky one as if I told him off he wouldn;t understand why- he did what I had told him to do- gave ds2 the car.

Thought I'd give you an update on ds. Things have definately improved since I stopped smacking him. I wasn't doing it often but of course he has a long memory. He has been much better towards dd although he still tells her off and a couple of times went to smack her and I've had to intervene. I guess that will take awhile for him to forget. But he's been more caring and even giving her hugs - things which he hasn't done such she was a baby.

He started nursery last week and loves it although freaked out a bit when they had to go to assembly with older children. One of the staff took him back to the unit and he was OK and they are just going to build up to it. It is only once a week anyway. He goes to the toilet himself there and just seems so grown up. It's like he grew up a year in about 2 months.

that's great eulalia.....

Hmmm, I don't think I actually changed what I did in reaction to his behaviour much except of course not smacking him for it... I tend to just drag him away and say something like "no that is hurting her". this is more of an explanation rather than just plain "no" (someone here gave me this advice - Maryz I think). Also he tends to go around saying "shut up" a lot and sometimes he says it so forcefully to her she cries. The other day I said "don't say that - it is rude" then he seemed to latch onto this and kept repeating it. I don't even know if he knows what the word means but it seemed to give him a good explanation anyway which sort of distracted him.

What I have been doing is giving him lots of extra cuddles whenever I can and really praising him for doing good things. This seems to be working in a prevantative way in that he is less likely to feel left out so pick on dd in the first place. Also he is transferring this positive behaviour onto her and me although not often I have to say (we are still working on this). Also being more calm in general and taking more time to do things seems to result in less stress and results in better behaviour.

Another thing I've been doing is more role play such as saying "do you want to tuck your teddy into bed", "give him a cuddle" etc etc. He really needs pushed to engage in role play but enjoys it and I think this helps with reinforcing that others have feelings. Also it helps to show that he can make others feel happy.

It is all hard work that is for sure!

OK we've joined the pushing and shoving club. DS1 has been shoving ds2 over the last week and today at nursery I saw him push a little girl. (This is the first time I have ever seen him do anything remotely nasty to another child who isn't ds2).

He seems to do it a lot when ds2 is in his way- it's like he wants to go past but doesn't know how to negotiate his way round him (and the incident with the girl looked similar). DS2 also follows him everywhere so he is constantly in the way.

I'm quite pleased that ds1 will be starting school soon. He's one of the biggest at nursery and its easy for him to push the little ones around. I'm hoping school will helpo put a kerb to that. (he's not aggressive so its not really a problem if he pushes a bigger child iyswim).

If anyone finds any good strategies let me know. Puttiong him outside the door has stopped working for us. He just walks off and sits on his bike now, not much point doing ti anymore if he doesn't mind. Any tips davros?

When is he starting jimjams? When Penny started at her school I saw her become quite independant straight away really but she has also turned into a right little madam also. I suppose this is a good thing though (wish I could do a neither here or there face)

He starts in 2 weeks time. But he's only doing 2 mornings.

so will he carry on at nursery aswell for a while?

yeah- i'm happy for the transition to take as long as possible (ie a year)

thats good jimjams I think we will be in the same boat with our dd

jimjams - if he is anything like my ds he will just grow out of it. ds did this a lot for awhile but he is really good with other children now. Has the odd moment here or there but a lot better. I don't know if its just a stage of asserting independence. I felt that my ds did a lot of 'normal' things that my friend's kids of the same age had done but just a lot later.

Good luck with school.

I'm a bit worried that as well as the pushing stuff he's overgeneralised kicking. We had to encourage him to kick as part of his BIBIC therapy (as he couldn't kick at all). Now he kicks anything in front of him. Balls, books, the cat, ds2....... ALl the time shouting "gee geen" (kicking). He was lining up someone's lap dog on the moors the other day until I grabbed him.

Oh dear - sorry had to laugh about the dog! That is the problem about autism - everything is taken so literally.

The dog was a nightmare. The owner was trying to get him to stroke the dog, completely failing to notice that something wasn't right- and he kept running out of my arms, and the dog kept running off and all the time I could see him lining up to do a big "gee geen". The owner must have thought I was a very odd mother, I'd left my 19 month old to kind of run around by himself (next to a bigger dog) whilst trying to grab ds1. When I think back to the image of the scene though I just want to laugh.

yesterday ds2 and 3 were running around and 2 accidently pushed 3 over- 3 started crying and 2 ran outside shouting 'runaway! run away!' -like teletubbies. I then had to remind him to apologise and to check if 3 was ok etc- 2 still cannot grasp that if he hurts someone by accident he has to apologise - and if he does it on purpose too. he believes that we know he is sorry if not on purpose and as far as apologising for doing something he wanted to do in the first place- he just cannot understand

ds will also act up just to get attention (particularly if I am on the computer - opps!), really like any kid will so watch out for that, also I think autistic kids will revert to bad behaviour if they aren't verbal.

Better go - been on mumsnet far too long this morning!