Just how common is it for a child to have "special needs" ?

[sameagain]

Both my Ds's (5 & 7) are judged to have SEN and go to special sessions to help with their difficulties. DS1 is an exceptional reader (talented & able list) does well in other subjects, but finds holding a pencil and writing difficult, so goes to gym trail which aims to help with fine and gross motor skills (he is generally uncoordinated, not just the pencil thing)

DS2 is very articulate, but one of the youngest in his class, struggles to apply himself and is trailing in reading, so goes to the SENCO for additional help.

I like the fact that they're offered this help, but also can't help thinking that they are probably problems that they will grow out of and that vast amounts on money may well be being spent on children who don't really need it.

My two sons are classed as SN. One i don't really think has real SN tho and its just a social/educational excuse for him being a bit slow

Eldest son is on school action and gets additional help with reading (aged 9)

Youngest son has severe autism (aged 5 with mental age of 2 yo)

Depends where you are in the country and what the school's SEN budget are like. It sounds like your school are intelligently proactive, putting in intervention early so that minor problems are addressed and not allowed to become bigger ones, if at all possible.

My dad's budget is over £1million for SEN, but where I work, I am incredibly at having to fight (probably unsuccessfully) to get a yr 8 child the help they should have had long ago, but I would be failing in my professional duty if I didn't got into battle for him.

sameagain asked 'Just how common is it for a child to have "special needs"?'

A good question and answered in this academic paper, if you're interested:

www.cps.org.uk/cpsfile.asp?id=155 What are Special Educational Needs?

That paper seems to suggest that everything will be fine as long as you can keep children off the Special Needs register and just provide good teaching. But what about children like mine who need disability aids, input from an OT, special support from SENCO. Where is the money to come from if they are not to be put on a special register?

Dd, who is the more disabled of my two, was not put on the SEN register. The result was that she had to pretend she was not disabled, suffer pain and miss out lessons because of a classroom situation aimed at non-disabled pupils. If she could not cope, she was punished, or at the very least missed out on learning.

And in case you think a special school would be the answer, all the special schools are geared towards children with severe learning disabilities- dd is gifted.

Ds is on the SEN register. What it means is that he does not get into trouble for things he cannot help, his teacher has a clearer idea of how much to ask of him, the SENCO is on the case, the day his wrists will no longer allow him to write there will be a laptop available. The difference between his school experience and hers is just enormous. And it's the SEN register that's made a big part of that difference.

Often it's a case of spending the money now to avoid paying out much larger sums later.

My ds1 is similar in some ways to Sameagain's ds1. He is very bright (years ahead in some subjects) but has problems with fine and gross motor skills. Writing has always been very difficult for him and it was predicted that in KS2 he would need a laptop or something similar for written work and would also need to be statemented.

Since then he has been doing various exercises and programmes at school to help with his motor skills. The difference this has made has been huge. He is now 8yrs old. His writing is still slower than a lot of children his age but he is able to keep up without using expensive equipment. He hasn't yet needed to be statemented either.

Without those exercises he would still be unable to write more than a few scrawled words withot stopping to rest.

The report linked to is odd. The author talks about the expense of having so many children on the SEN register but suggests sending more children to special school instead - which is actually far more expensive. The reason inclusion is liked by governments so much is because essentially it's cheaper to have a child in mainstream than in a special school.

that should have been "all the special schools around here".

I thought the report was odd. The writer seemed to have very limited ideas of what kind of child ends up on the SEN register. He seemed to think they could basically all be divided into two categories: those with real needs=statements and those without statements which are basically only pretend SEN.

"It is important to distinguish those with real special needs – the 2 to 3% with
Statements – from those who may be classified as having special needs – the
20% or so without Statements."

So only children with statements have real special needs. He seems completely unaware that some LEAs, like ours, refuse to statement children with physical disabilities. So that means that dd's needs aren't real? Idiot!

"This paper will put forward the hypothesis that
the main problem with the 20% may be that they have not been properly
taught, (and in particular not been properly taught how to read) in their early
years at school."

Oh right, if only you could teach ds to read properly the fact that his wrists hurt too much to hold a pen will just evaporate? This also ignores the fact that some children on the SEN register may be perfectly capable of reading but e.g. unable to write.

"The system of SEN contains two perverse incentives. First, the system has a
vested interest in failure: the more children with Special Educational Needs
that can be identified, the greater are the resources that can be claimed."

So? If the money is used for SEN, the school is hardly making a profit is it? Or does he think they can spend the SEN money on the headteacher's pension or taking the staff to the pantomime?

"The case for looking for pedagogic causes for the great expansion is particularly
strong since there is no comparable growth in Special Educational Needs in
other countries except in the USA."

The evidence from my nephew's Swedish school would suggest that SEN pupils are either taught out of view in a special block where they have no contact with other children or left unsupported to disrupt the class- his last year's learning experience was totally ruined by the presence of three completely unsupported autistic pupils- teacher had a nervous breakdown halfway through and they have since been taught by supply teachers. Oh we do so need a continental system!

"All special needs pupils should be required to take externally-administered
standardised tests of reading and spelling each year in order to focus attention
on the needs of the pupil and on the school’s effectiveness in meeting them.57
The results of these tests should determine whether or not the particular
policies – and associated funding – should continue. "

Ah right, so if ds can spell, it doesn't matter if holding the pen hurts so much that it makes him cry? It doesn't matter if his health is ruined by lack of suitable aids? Oh, silly me.

"The disruption to many schools caused by much current special needs provision
could probably be considerably reduced by:
! teaching reading earlier and more effectively"

Ah, if you only teach children to read when they're 3 instead of 4, they won't grow up to have special needs...

"! more academic selection both within and between schools;"

and what do we do with the ones that have been de-selected? bin them? or will they automatically learn to read when they've been deselected? or how will this solve any SEN-related problems at all???

If this right-wing think tank person can come up with a teaching method that means my dcs won't need aids, won't be disabled, won't suffer pain from ordinary school activities- then why doesn't he say so? If he can't, how about just accepting that you can have very real needs indeed without a statement.

It was bizarre, wasn't it?

Ds1 has no statement so therefore his SN isn't real, even though he has a dx of ASD.

Being taught to read earlier would have made bugger-all difference. He's pretty much hyperlexic so could read very early and has no problems with spelling either.

It's as though the author of the report had a lightbulb moment - "I think there are too many children on the SEN register. If we send the ones with statements off to special school and get rid of the SEN register altogether then we won't have SEN any more."

I have seen the article before and I think its too simplistic.

There are several different types of special need.

For example my son had a quite a considerable hearing impairment during reception and year 1 due to scarring on the ear drum and glue ear. His hearing has improved a hell of lot due to the fact he no longer has glue ear. (He still has the scarring) At one point there were three boys with hearing aids in his year so the school approach county and got a grant for a soundfield system.

I think there are too many children on the special needs register, but its nothing to do with shipping children off to special school. A lot of children have temporary special needs, however schools are too lazy to take off the special needs register once they no longer have the special needs.

Examples of temporary special needs are glue ear, a child going through major emotional truama, a child not being able to speak English, difficulties settling into reception, toileting issues or being later than average in learning to read or write. (Ie. they get there in the end)

I think that children on the special needs register should be reviewed and assessed more throughly than they are at my son's school. Logically there would be a far higher percentage of children on the special needs register in infant school than secondary.

Special schools should exist, but should be a last restort. There are some children who need the sheltered enviornment of a special school for emotional reasons. A child should not be bunged in a special school just because they are in a wheelchair.

I strongly agree that proper teaching of reading using synthetic phonics are promoted by Ruth Miskin is absolutely vital and we are failing our children every day. We also need to continue to offer proper support and reading rescue to kids until they can read, not think, they are in yr2 or whatever, so special help with reading must stop.
I strongly disagree with this ridiculous paper that there is 'real' SN with statements and 'the untaught underclass' without, and that all children with statements should be sent to institutions to be ignored. My ds is academically very bright, but has Aspergers and other difficulties.

There is all kinds of cr@p on the internet. I think that levels of help like school action, school action plus and statements indicate the level of need.

My son and his two little class mates were on school action for their deafness but still got their soundfield system. The soundfield system was necessary to make synthetic phonics work.

To the OP. My ds has hypermobility which affects his movements. Used to be called double-jointed. Means a lot of his joints are over mobile and he struggles to control them (he can appear uncoordinated). His main areas of weakness are hips, knees, ankle so he has difficulty running, jumping, climbing etc. But it can affect any joint(s). HIs gross motor skills are more akin to a 2 yr old than the nearly 4.5 yr old he is. I wonder if your ds could have something similar? We've been told that our ds has to do loads of exercise to ensure his muscles stay strong to control his joints (and he had long term physio which has stopped since his strength has improved).

The writer reminds me of my dd's old headteacher. Too lazy to arrange the timetable so her set was on bottom floor and with his mind set on an Outstanding for attendance. His solution to the first problem was to suggest she should go to a special school, his solution to the second to call in the Education Welfare and the social workers and try to frighten us out of letting dd be off sick.

There are people who just can't cope with the idea of disability, so they think the problem just needs to go away.

As for the OP: if you think about the enormous sums of money it costs society to have children grow up with reading and writing problems and consequently low self-esteem, early intervention, though it may seem excessive, is probably money well spent.

Most children do grow out of mild special needs. The problem is knowing which children have long term problems and which children are just later developers.

My son's school got their knickers in a twist about the fact that he could not control a pencil at the age of six, but the occupational theraphist told us it wasn't really a medical issue until a child is seven years old. Boys are often late and as a country we set our children up for failure.

Also a lot of difficulties are outgrown. When my son was younger he had physio, occupational theraphy, audiology, and speech theraphy. He recently gave back his hearing aids and is fine now. The problem is that is school will not take him off the SEN register.

I feel that now my son no longer has difficulties with hearing and his writing is improving that the SEN resources should be given to other children. However I also think he would be very behind without the help he had in the past. I would like to see other children get the help he did.

I am sure that a lot of SEN could be easily avoided if our children started school later and spent longer in pre school. Certainly Finnish children outshine our children at fifteen. Also if there was a little bit more flexiblity about which academic year a summer born child was in.

I have worked with Finns, they are like robots and have no initiative. Brilliant and very efficient at their very own narrow field but can't think outside of the box, so not impressed with their education system really.

DS is on the SEN register for dyslexia. Apparently he was on and off the SEN register all the way through primary, with about 2 years one to one for spelling. As mabanana indicated he was taught synthetic phonics properly so can read well but just can't write as well.

Children do not grow out of learning difficulties. If they get a large amount of extra help and support when they are younger (primary school years) than they can acquire the coping strategies needed to perform adequately in secondary school.

It really annoys me when parents say my son/daughter used to be dyslexic but is ok now, this is rubbish - once dyslexic always dyslexic.

My son thankfully received 3 years of professional help at a special school for his dyslexic/dyspraxic tendancies. He then moved back into mainstream where he now manages without any extra help. However, his performance will never be on par with his intelligence level.

Intensive help at primary level is essential, after that it is very difficult to catch up.

'I thought the report was odd. The writer seemed to have very limited ideas of what kind of child ends up on the SEN register. He seemed to think they could basically all be divided into two categories: those with real needs=statements and those without statements which are basically only pretend SEN.

"It is important to distinguish those with real special needs – the 2 to 3% with
Statements – from those who may be classified as having special needs – the
20% or so without Statements." '

um ds1 spent years on the school role with no astatement, did he only become sn when he got one then?

the answer op is- depends. on the school mainly. Our school you fight to get anyone to recogniose even failrly marked SN- DS3 was non verbal (still minimally) on entry and we had to fight to get them to acknowledge the issue (it was the nappies that cut it I think)- now a year later they've acknowledged he cannot cope in mainstream and is going to a SN unit. Soon, I hope.

other school I have heard like to get kids on school action at the drop of a hat.

DS1 is of the 'milder dx' briagade, ASpergers / HFA (but I tend to use HFA now as thats an ambiguous dx and AS doesn't in the least reflect his needs). It took the LEA so long to reach agreement to help that he was on highest rate DLA (for aggression, niht behaviours etc) a whole year before school would even place him on the register! (18 months later his new schol recognises and supports him, nd have mentioned EBD unit for secondary)

'Most children do grow out of mild special needs. The problem is knowing which children have long term problems and which children are just later developers.'

No, some children grow out of- or more likely are enabled to cope with- S e N.

Sn is different- a clinical dx or otehr additional difficulties oputside the educational field. They vary in severity and can improve but are always prsent (unless I suppose a cure rarely appears)

DH would be classed as dyslexic nowadays. He couldn't read until he was 10 and taught phonics. He is still dyslexic but he like many bright dyslexics has developed coping mechanisms. He still can't spell (thanks to the wonders of modern technology, spell check get's over that problem) and he still gets numbers muddled, so he hasn't grown out of it.

cw ditto dh (no surprise then that ds1 &ds2 dyslexic).

not an issue until lately when he's looking at returning to study, he's extremely bright (designs electronics) but the essays at Uni are going to be a big hurdle for him to jump over. I hope I can help him, but the language he uses is so very differet rechnically than the stuff I did- no place for a reference to the Bhagavad gita in an essay on (what? no idea- resistors? calculating power capacity on generators?)

It's th eonly part I worry about with DH's degree but without it he is unemployable

My DH is an electronics engineer as well

"I have worked with Finns, they are like robots and have no initiative. Brilliant and very efficient at their very own narrow field but can't think outside of the box, so not impressed with their education system really."

christywhisty, That is totally racist. What is your evidence? Or is it just antedotal. Actually I met finns who are bright and certainly have initative.

Infact I think that British education system is poorer at developing initative as it introduces formal learning too soon. The finns start formal education at the age of seven and most of them can read after one term where as British children take two to three years to learn how to read.

Far more finnish fifteen year olds can read, write and add up than than British teenagers. In fact many finns speak good English as well as other languages. There are international league tables which would show this. Are British people genetically stupid or is it that important steps are missed out when we push our children to do too much too soon.

The UK has a truely disgraceful record on teaching adults to be literate. I think children would find it easier to learn to read if they spent more time aquiring pre school skills like good speech and fine motor control. Instead we have the Early Years Foundation Curriculum which is stupidly unrealistic. Ie. wanting rising fives to write sentences.

www.childrenwebmag.com/articles/editorial/open-eye-petition

Fins are good at problem solving

They are about second in the world for problem solving with South Korea first.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA_(student_assessment)

I wasn't being racist, It was my opinion (which was clear from my post). I worked for the largest employer in Finland for 6 year in their london office also visited their HO in Helsinki several time. I didn't say they weren't bright or intelligent, in fact I said the opposite. I just saw no evidence of problem solving, it was the english staff who were expected to be able to multitask, which was not a skill that was really valued by the Finnish management.
It was things like being asked to make sure that there was enough paper in the printer if someone came in on a saturday, because they were not able to work out how to do it themselves, these were people with degrees!

I really enjoyed working for that company and met some very nice people, however I saw nothing that led me to believe that the Finnish education system was any better than ours.

The paper maverick linked to is NOT an academic paper: there is no evidence whatsoever that it has been through any form of peer review to establish the validity of its methods, data or conclusions.

It is a polemical piece published by a right-wing think-tank to further its own agendas in relation to education. Most of the author's publications emanate from the CPS, or a body which he administered. If he was a credible academic, at least some would have been published in reputable journals.