EHCP support thread no. 2

[Phineyj]

This is a support thread for anyone at any stage of the EHCP process. I've got an 11 year old girl in year 6 of a mainstream private primary school. I've been seeking an EHCP since she was in year 5, to support her transition to secondary school. She is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and is working about two years behind age related expectations. Our local authority refused to assess and refused to issue. We are currently in the 11 month wait for a second tribunal which I am hoping (but not sure) will take place before she actually goes to secondary, although I doubt the actual EHCP will be finalised by then. In the meantime I've been enjoying (not) learning all these acronyms and trying to support other people in this journey. In my spare time, I'm a secondary school teacher.

If you, too, are drowning in acronyms and paperwork while finding your local authority (LA) as useful as a chocolate teapot, join your fellow travellers here!

There is a nice man called Ken who runs a charity called TalkingSENse. He might be able to make sense of all this for you. I am thinking of employing him to advise on the contents of our EHCP (should we ever get one...a year and 4 months in so far grrrr).

Medical needs tuition is what s.19 provision for those unable to attend school is often called. Both for physical and psychological reasons. Sorry for confusing you.

Schools can refer DC to APs, it isn’t necessarily only for directing those with challenging behaviour off-site. Some LAs have a referral process schools can refer those with EBSA to. LA’s have different set ups. Without knowing where you are it isn’t possible to say.

Yes, this is true - at school we mostly hear about AP of the former type but I did have a year 10 last year doing some horticulture off site as part of his EHCP (alongside GCSE) so presumably that counted as AP.

Hi,

My 9 year old does have an EHCP and in mainstream but is struggling with school more then what he was before the EHCP (due in part that work is harder and at this age the expectations of behaviour is obviously higher).
His behaviour at school is awful, he refuses to come into class after break and lunch times and can be out there for an hour+.
He screams and makes noises, he throws other children's belongings around the class and throws chairs around the classroom.
Rude to the teachers and calls out, refuses to do work (esp English or anything that requires hands really) he has poor fine motor skills and his writing is unreadable.
I'm at the point where I love this school and the staff are amazing but does he need to be in a school more suited to his needs (he has ASD,tic disorder and is awaiting an ADHD assessment which the connors has been done just waiting for another appointment from his paediatrician).
He has good friends at this school who are so patient and good with him and I'm worried about that impact on him as well.
So hard isn't it, you think great we have an EHCP but sometimes its just not enough.

Hi everyone.
So we've received the draft report - they've said 20 hours of support in a mainstream setting. So just a few more hours than what da is already getting at school.
But they have actually included in section F of section B (if I've read it right) the small nurturing class sizes of upto 10 children. So we're going to use this to challenge the mainstream setting.
The senco has said she will state the school cannot meet ds' needs.
I just need a little advice on how to word this... any ideas ? Also can I use anything else that might help? Are autistic children protected under any kind of disability laws ?
Thanks

@Imfedup1989 sounds like you need an early review whether you decide to pursue another placement or not. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

@34weekmess do you mean the draft EHCP? If so, the draft should not name a placement. Section I should be blank. Make your representations and name your preferred placement. But don’t get into a prolonged back and forth delaying finalising. Going back and forth often doesn’t work, even if some traction is made, many end up needing to appeal anyway and going back and forth delays that.

20 hours of support is far too woolly to be of any use. If the small nurturing class sizes of upto 10 children is written with the same vagueness it won’t be enforceable.

DS is protected by the Equality Act, but that won’t help with improving the EHCP. It is the CAFA 2014 and SEN Regs which are important for EHCPs, with SENDIST being the route to challenge the EHCP once you have the right of appeal.

Thank you for your information again phiney and Searching

I'm am exhausted! Dflraft ehcp state asked for some amendments as no quantified support hours, declined. Lo has asd, mainstream unable to meet needs and they applied ehcp. Asked for specialist provision and they refusing to consult them until after the 15 days since we formally submitted it as our request! We're on week 17 currently of process so I know its not terrible but they said won't consult until another 2 to 3 weeks, we requested school last week and they also said its full so they won't likley name it anyway and name current ms school which has already indicated can't meet needs! Argh!

*draft ehcp stage. Wish I'd have reread!

@246810k I don't think "full" necessarily means full in that kind of situation. But I hope you get some clarity soon.

Our LA just emailed SENDIST to say they don't object to a tribunal on the papers (this is for a refuse to issue).

That's a good thing, right? Might be quicker?

@246810k push the LA to finalise then appeal. Complain about the LA not consulting your preferred placement.

@Phineyj whether a paper hearing is better depends on your case and evidence. It isn’t always much quicker either. I think an oral hearing is better for refusal to issue, personally, but some prefer it on the papers.

It may be quicker. But like @SearchingForSolitude said, sometimes an oral hearing is better because you can't always capture the nuances through paper hearings. I could write, for example, a witness statement explaining that D is so distressed by the lack of support that she hits me around 40 times a day. But I think that it would be so much more powerful sitting in front of humans and explaining that.

@SearchingForSolitude hi, sorry for the late reply.
Yes sorry I did mean draft plan.
No it doesn't state any school, it just says "mainstream setting"
Currently drafting the letter with the school senco, I am getting a little concerned though as when I speak to her on the phone she states that she is in agreement that school cannot meet ds' needs anymore, but isn't putting it in writing.
I have emailed her directly now asking her to state this in the letter as we've agreed verbally. Let's see what she says...
I have stated my reasons why I feel ds needs to be in a specialist setting, I haven't named a school yet as I'm still waiting to hear back from the one I think ds needs to be in... so for now I have just said a specialist setting. I've also stated I don't believe any other mainstream primaries will be an option either due to his current school already making significant adjustments.
I have also said the 20 hours need to be more specific. In the plan they have said this is basically upto the school how they utilise these hours...

they have said this is basically upto the school how they utilise these hours...

@34weekmess this is why you will need to appeal when you get the right of appeal. Once F is watertight, it must be provided and can be enforced. A vague and woolly EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on.

Sadly, some schools tell parents one thing and the LA another. Creating a paper trail of verbal conversations is the right way to go. You don’t necessarily need the SENCO to put it in writing. Email a summary of the conversation or minutes of meetings and asking them to raise any parts they disagree with. Then if they said something it is in the email and if they don’t object it stands as a record of events you can use at a later date.

Section I should be blank in the draft. It should not state setting or the type of setting. Is the preferred special school wholly independent? If not, you don’t need the school to offer a place.

No it is a state school. Does that mean I don't have to apply for a place if by some miracle the LA agree ?

So I've been given a copy of the consultation forms school have received from the LA and they have stated numerous things from the draft they cannot do for ds. They have stated they cannot meet his needs. Which I'm glad about. And I do have it in email aswell, and it also states it in the letter to the LA challenging the draft plan.
So now is just a waiting game I guess !

@34weekmess because the school is not wholly independent, if it is your preference, the LA must name the school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar to prove one of these is higher than many LAs admit. Schools can be, and must be unless the LA can prove one of the above, named even if the school objects when consulted. You don’t need the school to offer a place like you do with wholly independent schools. Sadly, many LAs refuse anyway and force parents to appeal.

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but does anyone else feel that if the LAs just stopped delaying, rejecting, refusing, whatever - less money would be spent on the various appeals or tribunals which would equal more money in the pot for SeN.

I get they don't want to fund, but equally they are wasting 100s of thousands if not millions

I'm so sorry things are this bad :(

We had a lot of hitting, kicking and spitting for a couple of years and it was awful. But not 40 times a day.

In our case I feel like I have been as eloquent as I possibly can in writing (thousands of words all cross referenced to the reports and the EHCP sections) whereas in person I might say something I would regret...

Besides no-one's actually sitting in front of anyone are they? It's Zoom usually isn't it?

Well yes. But I suppose it all kicks the can down the road and the resulting costs are borne by others. And they don't get in trouble often.

It's repellent, but I can see why it is the way it is.

it all kicks the can down the road and the resulting costs are borne by others.

^this. It is shortsighted of LAs but from the LAs’ PoV it is a successful tactic short term.

But I think you also have to factor in the deterrent effect which multiplies up the savings....

Yes I understand they're hoping to put people off and or delay but there are also lots of cases going to appeal or tribunal - surely that costs the LA money too?

And then of course you have the children who are suffering by not having the support they need

I find the whole thing frightening.

Surrey have now introduced a role in LSPA pre mediation where someone can explain why your request has been rejected and how better you can support your SEN child 🙄

They do that here already in our LA, next steps meeting they call it!
I had to do mediation with my youngest son and they caved pretty quickly but the way they cross examined me was quite nasty tbh!
Also they was like "we are going to do a EHCna but it's a very borderline case" just to make a parent with children with disabilities have to be grateful for every scrap!
It really wasn't! The EP was shocked we had to go to mediation in the first place!
But I know its all time wasting .

I had the same for Transport for my 16 year old who goes to a SEN school with significant needs!
Apparently at 16 his needs just all go away and he can get himself to school which is 2 bus rides and a walk through a village for a few miles!
That I was using up all there Budget and making me feel like a shit person for asking for something my son clearly needs and was entitled to.

It's disgraceful @Imfedup1989 !! I love my child but I don't wish this in him or any other parent/ child to go through.

Trust me I wish we could stay in mainstream but the reality is, he's borderline coping and our school's concerned he's about to fall apart. I know a parent whose son hadn't been to school in 2years with burnout and EBSA. Her LA have just agreed to home based learning.

Another two mothers had to go on parenting courses (baring in mind their older NT we're doing just fine)

I know I'm detailing and I'm sorry, this is all new to me and I'm just horrified by what the reality is.

You don’t have to actively partake in mediation. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST.