EHCP support thread no. 2

[Phineyj]

This is a support thread for anyone at any stage of the EHCP process. I've got an 11 year old girl in year 6 of a mainstream private primary school. I've been seeking an EHCP since she was in year 5, to support her transition to secondary school. She is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and is working about two years behind age related expectations. Our local authority refused to assess and refused to issue. We are currently in the 11 month wait for a second tribunal which I am hoping (but not sure) will take place before she actually goes to secondary, although I doubt the actual EHCP will be finalised by then. In the meantime I've been enjoying (not) learning all these acronyms and trying to support other people in this journey. In my spare time, I'm a secondary school teacher.

If you, too, are drowning in acronyms and paperwork while finding your local authority (LA) as useful as a chocolate teapot, join your fellow travellers here!

Hi @SearchingForSolitude Yes sorry I meant the school we named not what is named in his current draft plan !!
I have since spoken to the school and they have invited us and ds for a visit. I'm hoping this means it might be happening. They have said at the moment they're over subscribed but they are confident they can meet ds's needs. So no idea what this means if there isn't physically a place available

@Ponche I know the feeling. Like PhineyJ, I also don’t believe they read emails regularly and if they do, they don’t care enough to respond!

@SearchingForSolitude thank you, thank you, thank you. I kept on trying to write an email with a suitable response but it sounded too jumbled, this is straight to the point. I found the DCS’ email and also CC’d in the manager of the person who basically said no to the OT request. I also repeated the law yet again so let’s see what happens.

I’m sick of this process already😅

I’m so frustrated for everyone having to fight through this process, it’s so exhausting and unfair. And I definitely relate to finding that the default position is not to assess needs that haven’t already been assessed

We had a decision to issue overturned at mediation but haven’t seen a draft yet - there’s been a “co-production” meeting this week where updated outcomes have been written by the EP so I assume a draft will be issued soon. Goodness knows what will be in it!

we’ve been concerned that the MS grammar Y6 DS has been allocated for sept won’t be right for him and the EP kind of understood / agreed and said she’d arrange meetings for us all with the sencos of the other 2 local non-grammars and said how important it would be to grill the sencos on how they would meet needs etc and how we’d get a feel of if/how they could support him. Both schools immediately replied and said they don’t do this as they’re inundated with EHCP requests and we should have gone to the open days essentially - which we did but they were last year before the massive download spiral into full EBSNA happened

so now we seem to have the option of sticking with the grammar or taking a punt on one of the others.. does this sound right?? Or do we ask the LA to consult with them for us and then they say if they can meet needs or not? But this would be for whatever is written in the EHCP which we may or may not agree with as the whole process has been so dire and barely any needs have been assessed…

@34weekmess is the school woolly independent?

@Sleeplessi you don’t have to speak to the SENCOs prior to asking the LA to consult, but it is a good idea where possible. You could see if the school is willing to exchange emails or even just one. If you are considering asking the LA to consult, even if the school won’t reply, I would email them so they have an accurate picture from you. They may also be more willing to open a dialogue once the LA consults. Having said all that, do you think MS secondary is going to work for DS?

@SearchingForSolitude no it's a state school

If you end up getting your own OT evidence and the LA or tribunal accept it, the fact that there is a paper trail showing you asked for it and pestered will improve you chances of getting a complaint about it upheld by the Ombudsman plus a recommendation that you be reimbursed.

The problem is that the regulations don't require them to arrange assessments, they only require them to get advice and information.

It's semantics though isn't it? How can you get "advice and information" e.g. from educational psychology without them assessing the child, if they're "not known to service"?

It is simply a cynical attempt to push the costs of assessment on to the parents, which has two advantages: some parents won't be able to arrange and pay and if they do, the LA can then attempt to ignore the assessments.

@Zyq @Phineyj you’re exactly right.

I already had an independent OT assessment/report pre-arranged but this is not until next month and there is no guarantee the LA will even accept the report. Which is why I wanted the LA to seek their own advice as a back-up.

It’s unfair on those unable to navigate the system (what if English isn’t your first language?) and those unable to afford independent assessments. It was a stretch for us too otherwise I would have booked the assessment months ago and already had the report in hand before making the initial EHCNA request.

Ohhhh... so I have to arrange and pay for the OT and Social Care assessments myself (they are not on the list on the EHC hub). Waiting in this morning to see if the latter has been cancelled because we've had no word one way or the other from the solicitors.

I already have the SALT report, though I don't know how to get it to be included in the NA.
They are apparently asking for reports from CAMHS who basically she hasn't had anything to do with for at least 4 years. This is such a crock of 💩, how have you all been coping all this time!?

Anyone who is appealing and needs independent assessments but can’t afford them and isn’t eligible for legal aid, contact Parents in Need. They can sometimes fund/partially fund assessments.

@34weekmess if they aren’t wholly independent not having a space isn’t enough of a reason to reason to name it if they are your preferred placement.

@QuickFetchTheCoffee pass the SALT report to the LA. You can do that via email. Depending on your LA, you may be able to do this via the Hub. Personally, I prefer email for the better paper trail.

It doesn’t matter DD hasn’t had input from CAMHS recently. CAMHS can still provide advice and information. I would request it is from a clinical psychologist &/or psychiatrist. Otherwise it could be a band 2 support worker, which clearly isn’t going to be sufficient. Have you requested OT and social care assessments from the LA?

I have so many questions.

For those that have got independent OT/SALT/whatever else advice, how much did that cost you? Are we talking hundreds, a couple thousand?! (Pls feel free to PM me if you’re happy to answer but don’t want to post on the thread).

How did you know whether the place you went too was reputable or did you do a Google search and go from there? Also, how long did it take between first reaching out to arrange an assessment and receiving a finalised report? What happens if you try to submit independent advice to the LA but they won’t accept it? Can you submit this evidence at a later time?

I’m going to wait to see what the LA say back to me (if they bother to respond) but I’m just considering my options! I need to double check if I’m eligible for Legal Aid but I’m 90% sure that I still am

I haven't requested anything specific yet. I only got agreement to assess a few days ago and I've no idea how to go about requesting anything. They sure don't make it clear. There are some areas on the hub I can add too and a list of "reports" the LA are requesting. Some of them are already complete but I can't click on them so I've no idea what they say.

@MinnieTruck I googled sensory OTs in our area almost a year ago and spoke to one on the phone and she emailed me her brochure, as she offers various assessments.

My DD turned 3 in September and since then I have been planning to book her in for an assessment but found the cost prohibitive as it’s £850 for a detailed sensory assessment.

I decided to go for it recently as she’s been struggling more with sensory related things. I contacted the OT at the beginning of March and the earliest availability she had was mid May.

I got booked in and paid £100 extra for EHCP recommendations as I had just submitted the initial EHCNA request and thought it would be useful to get these specific recommendations. So £950 in total and needed to pay half to get a date.

The earliest she will send the report is 7 days after the assessment, the latest is 21 days. This assessment will be taking place in her clinic, not DD’s nursery. It will cost more for her to visit the nursery so I didn’t enquire about the cost.

@MinnieTruck Our independent SALT is also working on a report that I will send to the LA.

The report writing plus visit to nursery for an observation will cost approx £200/£250. Plus the cost of two home therapy sessions for information gathering which is about £150, although one session may have been sufficient but I’m using two.

Some reflections:

The general LA game plan appears to involve two steps; 1) resist doing anything if at all possible, and if pushed, 2a) then do as little as you can get away with, for 2b) as long as you can.

How 2) plays out depends on parents' willingness to test LA decision making with a court.

In my case, whilst it is true that the LA, including the EP service had shamelessly ignored high quality evidence in the production of a plan, magically, in the 4 weeks before a hearing, all evidence suddenly became more equal. So obtaining it does not necessarily mean it will be ignored forever, you may just have to wait a very long time, and jump through several more time consuming administrative hoops, before you reach a point where it is finally in their interests to demonstrate at least some sort of attempt to engage with it (albeit still seeking to wriggle out of its full import in respect of provision).

High quality well specified assessments at this point have been the only thing that make sticking with the whole sorry process worthwhile. And even then one must be prepared for a largely pyrrich victory, given the propensity of MS schools to claim, despite their best endeavours, they can't actually deliver very much due to staff shortages...

One of the many learning points for me is that independent OTs are not created equal. For example, if you have a child with a neurodevelopmental condition, an OT with a neurology specialism may be able to offer a lot more evidence on cognitive challenges, developing executive functioning skills etc.

Sending love and strength to all.

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but here, it's not a question they won't accept independent reports; they will list them in Section K of a plan. But here they attempt to argue they only apply information to inform Section B (needs). They only use their own assessment to inform Section F (provision) 'to create a level playing field and avoid sharp elbowed middle class families getting better provision'.

Thank you so much for your advice once again, so grateful.
Our primary senco said each secondary at this point is willing to send us their EBSNA policy and nothing more (which I can get from their websites)

So I’ll think we’ll ask for them to be consulted and like you say, email our perspective of what’s going on. If they all say they can meet needs, do we get to choose or does the LA decide?

The grammar is small, renowned for its pastoral work and has been through the autism in schools project. But is 3 miles away via public transport and DS doesn’t know anyone - and also a grammar so v academic, loads of homework etc
Nearest comp we can see from the house, most of primary class is going, v sporty which on a good day will suit him, and SEN supposed to be ok (though busy as I’ve been emailing since Oct but not one reply) but no autism specialism as such
Other comp has been through autism in schools project and has an autism ssc which is full but thinking it’s a good thing that it’s on site as staff might be available and if he’s there he might get first dibs if a place opens up and they feel he needs it. But 2 miles away via public transport and a lot of walking but he’d know 1 child there.
No idea how we’d decide without speaking to them

In my heart, I know that MS secondary won’t work. Don’t see how we can get from where we are now to a successful transition. No one involved has ever mentioned specialist and EP is eternally positive about him just needing support so can’t see that the EHCP will be written in a way that says he’ll need it. Can we throw in consulting with specialist schools at this point? There are none apart from the full SSC in the LA so it’s be independent and outside borough

@Sleeplessi for non-wholly independent schools, the LA must name your preferred placement unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
The bar for this is high. If the LA can’t meet the threshold, they can and must name the school even if the school objects.

If you don’t think MS is appropriate, you don’t have to give a mainstream as your preferred placement. You can state a SS. You may have to appeal. Transport can be provided, so don’t worry about public transport. The SSC being ‘full’ doesn’t have to be a barrier to being placed there, but you may have to appeal.

@MinnieTruck LAs should consider all evidence. Many say they don’t accept independent assessments, but such a blanket policy is unlawful. Many ‘consider’ and discount. But SENDIST considers all evidence.

Don’t worry about funding independent assessments. From what we have previously discussed, you will be eligible for legal aid which can fund them if you need to appeal. Good independent assessments for EHCPs cost ££££ and the best way to find them is via a recommendation from someone who has used them for Tribunal. Lots have long waiting lists, but cancellations come up.

@QuickFetchTheCoffee if you want the LA to seek advice and information from anyone specific, you must ask. IPSEA has a model letter you can use. You should request copies of any reports. Going forward, do this at the time of speaking to the professional.

a largely pyrrich victory, given the propensity of MS schools to claim, despite their best endeavours, they can't actually deliver very much due to staff shortages...

Enforcement action sees to schools and LAs claiming they are unable to fulfil their statutory duty because of a lack of funding, resources or staff. It is the LA who is ultimately responsible for ensuring the provision detailed, specified and quantified is provided.

@SearchingForSolitude okay thanks, next stop needs to be IPSEA website again then.
We have a copy of the SALT report, we've had no contact from anyone else. The Social Care Work assessment the solicitors had scheduled for today didn't go ahead. I feel like my mistake was being honest and telling them the LA had changed their minds too quickly. They were never in a hurry to communicate with me (until yesterday to cancel services).

Just catching up. Hope everyone is managing as best they can with this mad system.

@MinnieTruck We had an indie OT assessment for EHCNA. It was of course ignored but as @Cafetabac said, in the long run it should prove both very useful and insightful. As a starting point in the very least, and to show historical evidence. For example our LA did not cary out an OT assessment despite our request for them to and we did one ourselves (it was £750 for a 31 page report. Standardised and sensory assessments in both home and nursery). Totalling roughly 4 hours across both settings. Report was written within 2 weeks. Now we have an upcoming hearing in July, following a March appeal (DD is due to start Reception in September). But for our LA they have no OT report and only until the end of May to submit all evidence. Even if they did manage to get one, they still have no historical report to refer back to. Yes our reports will be a year out of date by the time of the hearing but we have asked the same people to reassess. We booked them back in January to assess in May in anticipation of a July/August appeal, and as @SearchingForSolitude suggested, we've asked them to do shorter assessments to update the first ones. For us they will show what progress has been made or in our case what progress hasn't been made, further reinforcing the need for the provisions set out.

For costing, the shorter updated assessments have been at least half, some more than half of the cost of the initial ones but I think only because we used the same people.

As for selection, we chose specialists that were able to write tribunal reports and act as a witness if needed. DD is very sensory so we also looked at an OT with sensory experience and a foot in the NHS door or significant NHS experience. Not that it should matter but we thought it would appease our LA, turned out it didn't bur the only indie report they accepted and didn't question at all, was the initial autism diagnosis. Done independently but by a very experienced private and current NHS paediatrician.

Hope this helps x

only until the end of May to submit all evidence

Be aware, the LA could ask for late evidence to be accepted.

Forgot to add tribunal SLT report was £700 and then roughly half for the updated report. We went with the SLT that was part of DDs ADOS. So she already knew her very well having been part of her diagnosis and she's just super, DD took to her instantly. We also had an indie EP which was roughly £1200 and then again half for updated report. It's been a massive stretch but even though reports were ignored initially, they won't always be and early on have helped nursery and us see exactly where DD struggles so we can help. If there was one to prioritise I would say for us it would be OT x

@SearchingForSolitude yes of course and I'm sure they will. My main argument is they have no baseline report and no historical evidence to refer back to. As I understand, it is the evidence that is key (and time spent gathering it) and in our case, DD has made little to no progress in the same areas she struggled with then and now.

@Valkyriee it is evidence that wins appeals, I was just letting you know late evidence is a possibility in case you didn’t know. Not everyone realises.