EHCP support thread no. 2

[Phineyj]

This is a support thread for anyone at any stage of the EHCP process. I've got an 11 year old girl in year 6 of a mainstream private primary school. I've been seeking an EHCP since she was in year 5, to support her transition to secondary school. She is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and is working about two years behind age related expectations. Our local authority refused to assess and refused to issue. We are currently in the 11 month wait for a second tribunal which I am hoping (but not sure) will take place before she actually goes to secondary, although I doubt the actual EHCP will be finalised by then. In the meantime I've been enjoying (not) learning all these acronyms and trying to support other people in this journey. In my spare time, I'm a secondary school teacher.

If you, too, are drowning in acronyms and paperwork while finding your local authority (LA) as useful as a chocolate teapot, join your fellow travellers here!

@SearchingForSolitude

The paediatric S&L therapist said that they will be recommending this provision in their final report for the EHCP. I think 10-12 hours are measly…he is nearly 4 but speech is around 24-36 months old….I told her I will contest anything that is not suitable once I have been given the EHCP to review. I thought she meant 10-12 hours each term….maybe she made a mistake?

Re the wait list - that just tells me they plan to be wooly and unspecific regarding this speech therapy…maybe anyway.

I appreciate you specifying your childrens’ direct contact time. At the very least it confirms she was not telling the truth re 10-12 being maxim.

If you think the report is inadequate raise your concerns now. You don’t have to wait until/if you receive a draft. But, ultimately, when you have the right of appeal for the content, you may have to appeal and seek independent assessments. Many have to do this to secure any detailed, specified and quantified SALT.

EHCPs can be fully funded, but LAs won’t do that unless forced.

How can the LA be forced to fully fund an EHCP?

I'm trying to figure out how we can best argue our case for DC needing to go to the school we want to name, if he's issued with an EHCP. The school is extremely sought after and they are working hard to avoid being named on any more plans. They've offered places to 10 kids with EHCPs, out of 232 places, for Sept 2024.

Below is just some of what they argue in their 'incompatibility with the education of others' statement, which was shared with me by another parent. Does this reasoning meet the threshold for not being named?

A mainstream school is expected to contribute the first £6,000 from its budget to spend on each child who needs additional help to make progress. Schools do not receive this £6,000 for each child on the SEN register. The per-pupil funding at XXXXX falls short of this expected amount. We have a large number of students on the SEN register and with EHCPs. The expectation to meet the first £6,000 for these students is proving financially restrictive. ... There is a shortfall between the top up funding received on an EHCP and true cost.

They'll also say that the classroom resources are already stretched and adding another child will negatively impact learning for all children:

Please see section 6.36 and 6.37 of the SEN code of practice, which clearly states that high quality teaching is the most important factor in a child with SEN making progress.... but expecting one teacher to provide significant differentiation for 15 different students in one class is a challenge. The addition of even one more child with specific complex needs, who requires further individualised differentiation, as specified in the child’s EHCP, would add to this already demanding workload. This then pulls time away from other students also in the class that require mainstream teaching or differentiation.

They even go on to quote statistics around suicide risk among teachers, and mental health difficulties and stress caused by underfunding and heavy workloads.

And:

It is important to challenge the opinion that ‘1 more won’t make a difference’. Each young person with an EHCP has individualised support written into the EHCP and this is therefore a very important and valid reason. This legal document identifies the support that must be in place, legally. This should not and cannot be ignored but further stretches staff. It will also pull away from the support others are given. ... The school’s ability to continue to educate effectively, efficiently and successfully all its pupils is impaired if it were to accept all the children with EHCPs that apply. Although schools do not have quotas there has to come a point when the addition of one more pupil does restrict the quality of education that it can offer.

This school seems to have gone above and beyond in framing its argument against being a named school, but most good schools in our area are also routinely claiming 'incompatibility with the education of others' when consulted by the LA.

Any suggestions on how to argue against the above points? Can we point out that the LA is obligated to fully fund the place and so the school's argument re budget isn't valid? BTW, the school is in a neighbouring LA, not the one we live in.

@prh47bridge @SearchingForSolitude (or anyone else who knows the answer) do you know if I have the right, as a parent, to find out how my child placed (or just the band) that they got in a fair banding test? Two of the secondary schools we applied to last October require this test (same academy chain and same test, so she just sat the one) so they have her results even though she won't go there, as we got our first choice. I think it would be useful to know this information for the EHCP but will they give it to me? And if they won't give it to me can I do a SAR to get it?

Don't know if they will give it to you, but my view is that they should give it to you if you make an SAR. It does not appear to fall under any of the exemptions.

@Phineyj I agree, they should give them to you even if they force you to go down the SAR route. You have far stronger evidence, IMO, so I wouldn’t get overly hung up about it.

@SpaceInvader321 being in another LA doesn’t matter.

LAs will often tell schools they must fund the first £6k and in many cases schools are left funding some or even all of the provision, but under s42 CAFA 2014 the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the provision in F is provided. This duty is absolute. LAs won’t fully fund unless forced. Sometimes putting pressure on them is enough. Sometimes it also takes an appeal &/or JR (depending on the specifics of the case). If you can ignore the ignorant posters, I have just searched out this thread that tried to dispel some of the myths around pupils with SEN and covers EHCPs can be fully funded. I’m sure there are other threads covering it too. Section F not being able to make it the school’s responsibility to fund the SEP is also covered in the noddy guide.

Honestly, you are getting far too ahead of yourself. You don’t yet know if the LA will issue or not, yet alone getting the content written well enough it can be enforced.

What you have quoted is a fairly standard response. There are schools with a higher ratio of pupils with EHCPs. It isn’t all about the ratio, but it is something to be aware of. The first paragraph you have quoted alone won’t be enough to successfully defend a case at SENDIST. Depending on what other evidence they have it may lead to a strong case. But the LA would have to prove details. The third paragraph doesn’t actually provide specific, which they would need.

Thanks, @SearchingForSolitude . I'll check out the link you provided.

Honestly, you are getting far too ahead of yourself. You don’t yet know if the LA will issue or not, yet alone getting the content written well enough it can be enforced.

I worry. 🙁The independent EP report brought up a lot of issues and the EP feels DS really needs an EHCP ahead of the Y7 transition. The LA's EP is coming in next week and the decision to issue should come after Easter. We'll see what happens. It's hard to not worry and feel like I have to be two steps ahead bc everything has been such a battle so far.

Thanks for the continued support and reality check!

I understand how you feel, sometimes I get ahead of myself too, it’s just the sheer worry isn’t it. Fighting for everything (not just EHCP related) just wears you down. I’m trying to now just cross each bridge when I come to it.

@prh47bridge @SearchingForSolitude thanks! I've sent them a polite email so let's see if I get a response.

DD's prep school is highly focused on competitive entrance exams and while I didn't put her in for any, the banding test is essentially 11+ so I would like to know how she scored. She's been very stressed and disregulated by SATs practice yet the banding test, she seemed to be hyperfocused and to have rather enjoyed it. Maybe because she didn't know anyone there. It was intriguing!

@Phineyj was it the knowledge that the banding test wasn’t pass/fail that reassured DD? Or it could be the style of question is different.

I'm not sure. However, the fact that we just went and she did it, no big build up, clearly a one-off and no-one else from school there was probably significant. Her school is top 20 nationally by SATs results so despite the lovely teachers, I imagine it gets a wee bit hysterical.

Plus SATs have those literature data response questions that she finds really tough, given that she struggles to decode things like metaphor and how people are feeling.

Maybe the educational psychologist will be able to shed a bit of light.

This is the first time I’ve read this but really is an accurate description of this nonsensical process

We were actually told this by the LA in our decision not to issue way forward meeting last week. The only needs that are taken into account for the needs assessment are needs that have already been assessed. My DS won’t get an EHCP because we can’t provide professional reports of what his needs are so they can’t be assessed. Bonkers!

@Sleeplessi are you going to appeal? The stuff they've said is just a delaying tactic and SENDIST will see that.

I've seen a couple of posters mention these meetings. We've never been offered a meeting in the entire 18 months we've been dealing with our LA. We've had no human contact at all other than the odd email (most of the emails, and all the letters are signed just "SEN unit").That may well be because I appealed their refuse to assess and refuse to issue decisions immediately - but it is an odd way to go about things, isn't it? I was thinking last night, all I originally wanted was a bit of expert advice on secondary transition...

@Phineyj you aren’t missing out an anything by not being offered a Way Forward meeting. The LA will tell you they are about being supportive, but the whole aim of them is to distract, delay, obfuscate and fob off parents. Parents get their hopes up that they will be listened to, there will be (false) promises of more support and in some LAs a promise of a review after a term (which conveniently for the LA will always be after the deadline to appeal).

@SearchingForSolitude well, I figured.

And I'm not sure I'd want to meet me if I were them!

Yes, we have the mediation for this next week so not too long to wait.

We are now being asked what referrals we think need to be made and why. All I know is that my ASD DS11 is completely burnt out, self harming and threatening suicide after he’s been in school and isnt able to attend more than an hour per week - I’ve never been in a classroom with him to be able to guess at what the triggers are and am also not an education or medical professional. It’s all just so frustrating- and we have the secondary transition looming

im asking for SALT, OT and begging them to bump him up the CAMHS waiting list in the hope that something lands and he gets some support

after his ASD diagnosis, we got a leaflet so not holding my breath

When I done my dds tribunal paper work for her EHCNA I made it clear how can they say no to assessing her on the basis of not meeting the 2nd criteria if they don't assess her first.
Literally makes no sense, it didn't get to tribunal thankfully and the LA conceded the day they where suppose to give evidence on why they couldn't amazingly.
It then went smoothly and I got her EHCP quite straightforward.
It's a waste of time and money which they loose in the end in majority of cases.

@Sleeplessi although my daughter's ADHD and ASD diagnoses were private, I did eventually manage to get an appointment with the NHS paediatrician locally. While all he did really was confirm the private assessments were good quality, he did signpost us to a couple of useful services locally that I wasn't aware of.

Basically I'm saying there may be tertiary mental health services locally that are charity run or don't advertise too much.

Hey everyone. Not commented for a while as the admin and emotional energy needed for my DDs assessments and EHCP meeting have been a lot!
I have received a draft EHCP (feeling very fortunate that yes to assess and actual assessment process has been surprisingly smooth and swift) The plan is that my ASD, PDA, hypermobility child moves to a Special School with a focus on ASD. The hope is that she will be able to gain a few GCSEs in the future but obviously it will depend on whether she can engage in the education offered to her.
The EHCP looks pretty thorough but as this is the first time I've seen one of these, I'm wondering how to tell if it's a good plan or not? Is there some sort of example EHCP to use as a guide? I really want to get this right for my little girl going forward.
The LA has indicated that there is a good chance we will wait for a year for a space in a new setting and I need to try to ensure some of her needs are met in the interim. She is currently attending school for only 2 hours per day.
Thanks in advance!

Go through all the reports, which should all be in K, with a fine toothcomb and highlighters.

Highlight all DC’s special educational needs in one colour and then all the provision to meet the needs in another colour. Each need should have corresponding provision.

Then go through the draft and make sure all the highlighted needs are in B and the highlighted provision is in F. When you reply to the LA, include anything they have omitted or any needs that don’t have corresponding provision. Also include anything the reports have failed to include.

When you go through F, look out for vague and woolly wording. For example, “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”. Provision must be detailed, specified and quantified, otherwise the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

When (it is a matter of when, not if) you find vague and woolly wording, check the reports to see if they are woolly and vague or whether the LA has watered down provision. If the reports are vague and woolly, ask the LA to go back to the report writers to make the reports detailed, specified and quantified. If the LA has watered down provision, make sure to request the LA stick to the wording in the reports.

Alongside this, make sure any health or social care provision that educates or trains is in F. For example, LAs like to put things like SALT, OT, physio, etc. in G (health care provision) when it belongs in F.

The LA has indicated that there is a good chance we will wait for a year for a space in a new setting and I need to try to ensure some of her needs are met in the interim.

If the LA finalises without naming your preferred placement, you should appeal. Unless the school is wholly independent (is it?), the LA must name your preferred placement unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

Unless the school is wholly independent, a lack of spaces is not enough of a reason to refuse to name your preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DD is incompatible. The bar is higher than many LAs admit. The LA can, and must, name the school regardless of the school’s objections unless they can prove one of these reasons above.

She is currently attending school for only 2 hours per day.

Is alternative provision in place?

Good progress @applemist.

The Ipsea guide tells you what should be included.

If we eventually get ours I'm going to pay Talking SENse to check it over.

Hi all, just reading through all the comments and wow this thread has grown quickly!

My PAP was not successful in getting OAP implemented... BUT the response gave me the evidence I needed to send to the LA tribunal officer and proved that an EHCP is required to secure it.

I rang Ds offered secondary school and they have stated they are going to apply for high needs block funding, I also sent this to the tribunal officer.

The tribunal officer has been v good. She's looked at all of the additional evidence (which was provided to the assessment team but ignored) and concerns I have raised, along with the complaint I raised about the LA EP, and is sufficiently conflicted enough to discuss Ds appeal in the assessment meeting tomorrow "and will get back to me with the outcome and next steps to progress things" via a call on Thursday morning.

I'm trying very hard not to get my hopes up but the email very much reads like the LA may actually concede before it reaches tribunal.

In between all of this, I was in a high speed RTC on the M4 that made national news at the beginning of December and had concussion, and I've had 8 admissions to hospital with my heart condition since mid December. If I've managed to pull off a decent appeal amongst all of that, I'm amazed.

Thank you @SearchingForSolitude for such great advice.
Everything in section F starts with DD WILL receive or have access to etc or staff WILL provide such and such. There doesn't seem to be any wooliness in this respect. I have concerns about provisions being quantifiable as this seems to be vague in places. Some things are 'embedded within teaching and learning activities as needed' others are 'planned into daily/weekly timetable'. Should I ask for these to be more specific?
All provisions are provided by Teacher, teaching assistance or emotional literacy support under direction of SENCO.
The draft does not list a setting at the moment - we are going to panel in June for a LA autistic school. I think (from memory) the EP and certainly the diagnosis report mentions that she needs small group tuition and a low sensory environment - there's no mention of this in the draft.
I'll get to work with my highlighters tomorrow and I'm sure I'll have more questions!
No there are no alternative provisions in place at the moment in respect of her current setting - the school are dragging their heels a bit on this. I have had a meeting to request this and they promised to get to work on it but nothing as yet. I think I will need to get in contact Inclusion at children's services? Is that right?
Thanks so much for your guidance. DH is away this week so I'm working through this alone for now and it's so reassuring to have this thread.