EHCP special school

[Elfoutthewindow]

Our EHCP application is underway, school are supportive, we have multiple reports etc, and the outcome is likely a special school placement.

Is it possible to get the move to special school agreed before the EHCP is finalised? Or do we just sit tight, while the current school, and my child, can't cope? (I cannot home school)

TIA

No, they don’t. The law is the same regardless of what LA DC live in. As I posted, the LA has a statutory duty to provide s19 provision. That can be enforced. If suitable staff can be provided in some schools then suitable staff be provided otherwise than at school. Some pupils have specialist teachers, nurses, therapists… provided otherwise than at school.

Ok, thank you.

Has anyone else got experience of a place at special school before the EHCP is finalised, ever? I accept this might be a no.

There is so much demand for special school places that I think it is very unlikely you will get a special school place before the EHCP is finalised. Also, regardless of what your DC’s current school says, it is not impossible that the LA will make you appeal to get a special school place because they know how much of a squeeze there is on special school places and their own budget. Many, many children who really need special school places are refused them. The reality is you are likely looking at a year, probably more, before your child can start at a special school. Even if the EHCP is issued on time and names a special school there is every chance that the move won’t take place until the start of the new academic year. If attending their current placement isn’t an option what have you got to lose by investigating the other options mentioned up thread until such a time as a special school place can be secured?

Yes, it feels like you are in the dark when choosing special schools as some won’t let you see them, seem to be unclear about who they cater for etc. Talking to them, and being blunt with your questions, will give you an idea though. Do look at specialist independents, especially s41 schools, if there are limited state schools within reach. There’s a spreadsheet of s41 schools on .gov.uk

There are no S41 schools where we are.

Due to DC's needs, and our area, there won't be an alternative that's less worse than what school are doing currently.

But thank you for making me be realistic about a special school place happening any time soon.

Sorry to hijack this thread (I’ve just started my own as well) but had some questions and you sound really knowledgeable.

I’m not in the catchment area for my preferred mainstream primary school, but will be putting it down as first choice anyway. I’m hoping my DD will get a place either because she will have an EHCP by then or because we are in the process for that.

The one school I am in the catchment area for - do I have to include this as 2nd or 3rd choice or can I just leave it off? It’s a church school so I would rather not include it.

I will also be looking at special schools. To start reception in a special school in September 2025, will she have to have an EHCP in place by then? If we are still waiting for the EHCP, will she have to start reception in a mainstream school?

I am also in discussion with the nursery SENCO about this but was just after some personal experiences.

Ok, I need to eat humble pie. Kid has been excluded from school, due to safety. They cannot keep him safe. However, after I requested section 19 provision, they reduced it from 8 school days to 5. But I still don't think they can keep him safe/he can cope.

There is no alternative provision where we are. LA say there is no education other than at school. They say he has to stay in mainstream. School and I say he can't cope in mainstream.

I work full time.

I'm sorry I was snotty... I was sure he could stay at the school not doing any work, and one to one. It wasn't education, but at least I had childcare. Now I have neither.

There is no alternative provision where we are. Other than the local prison/secure unit, there is no where he would be safe. No one could educate/care for him for more than two to four hours at a time, apart from me, due to his needs.

The LA say he has to wait 15 weeks for the ehcp!

@Ponche if an EHCNA hasn’t yet been requested you should request one ASAP. Many have to appeal, some more than once, and you need all the time you can get. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Unless you have a finalised EHCP by Jan 2025 (when the normal admissions deadline is) you should make a normal application just in case.

With a normal application, you don’t have to include the nearest school on the form, but you should include a banker. A school you are very confident you will get a place at. Otherwise, you risk being allocated a distant school you hate.

Without a finalised EHCP, a place will be offered in accordance with the admission criteria. An EHCNA request having been made won’t give priority. Some schools have an exceptional medical and social needs category, but even if they have one undergoing an EHCNA will not be enough because the bar to be considered under this is high. You will need evidence only that school is suitable.

Without a finalised EHCP, you are unlikely to get a special school place. The exception to this is some LAs have early years assessment places for nursery aged DC going through or needing to go through the EHCP process.

Admissions with EHCPs are separate from the ordinary admissions process. Unless the school is wholly independent, the LA must name your preference unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
Being out of the catchment area that is part of the normal admissions criteria doesn’t change that. However, LAs often refuse and force parents to appeal.

LA say there is no education other than at school.

@Elfoutthewindow the LA is lying. Stop believing everything they tell you. They will tell you their version of the law and what they want you to know. An alternative package can be arranged. No, it won’t be straight forward or easy and the LA won’t do it unless forced, but it is possible and s19 provision can be enforced.

How do I force them? And will that be quicker than 15 weeks?

I generally trust people to do their job!

I generally trust people to do their job!

You need to learn fast, you cannot rely on this. DC whose parents know the system and can advocate and enforce their rights, get better support. It shouldn’t be like this but isn’t going to change anytime soon.

If DS cannot attend school full time (and not just because he is suspended for 5 days) and is compulsory school age, email the Director of Children’s Services requesting provision under s19 of the Education Act 1996. If they refuse, delay or ignore, email again reminding them of their duty and stating you will be forced to pursue judicial review proceedings if they do not comply. Then, if that doesn’t work, contact SOSSEN for help with a pre-action letter.

Lots of the time the threat of JR or a pre-action letter works. Few get to JR proceedings themselves. If the threat or a pre-action letter works, it will be quicker than 15 weeks (although the EHCP process takes 20 weeks, so depending on where you are in the process, it may be more or less than 15 weeks. And LAs often breach this timescale but it can also be enforced, via JR if necessary). If it doesn’t work, a full hearing will take longer, but interim provision can be requested and ordered. It is worth pursuing s19 provision now even though it won’t be in place this week because there is no guarantee the LA will issue an EHCP (many have to appeal refusal to issue even with complex needs) or name a SS (again, many have to appeal for SS) and appeals are taking a long time.

Thank you.

I generally assume people take pride in their jobs, and wouldn't ever make decisions that aren't in the best interests of the children they serve. Otherwise, surely they'd get sick with moral injury?

He cannot attend school. I've looked, and there genuinely doesn't appear to be any alternative provision within 90 minutes drive. He wouldn't cope with a long journey. As I said, short of a padded room, and short shifts, I don't see how private tutoring could be provided.

My job was one of the most key key worker roles in the pandemic. It's important. And more importantly, it pays the bills.

Honestly, the SEN system doesn’t work like that. If it did SENDIST and the LGO wouldn’t be inundated with cases. It will save you time and stress if you realise that now.

Alternative provision doesn’t have to be at a formal AP setting (although I bet there are APs within 90mins of you, although whether they are suitable is another matter) and it doesn’t have to be tutoring in the typical academic sense. There are possibilities.

Bluntly, they can’t help everyone. They don’t have the money. Those that make a fuss and get them to follow the law get what they need. Some may also not actually know the law.

You are not the only one who assumes the system will have your child’s best interests at heart, I did to begin with too. I think many individuals within it do, but there just isn’t a limitless pot of money.

But let the LA worry about sourcing provision that works. You just need to have sharp elbows and keep at them until they do what they are supposed to.

A carer’s assessment (by social services) could also help you keep working. It may also give you someone on your side.

I don’t know your child, but don’t underestimate the effect of no longer having to go to a placement that doesn’t meet their needs on their behaviour. What doesn’t seem possible now might be possible once they have decompressed.

Yes, this. There will be provision that you are unaware of, I’m sure.

I'm less sure.

A new setting or person will bring out all the tricky needs pretty quickly.

I know where we live, and I know what DS' needs are.

I am going to have to wrestle him into a school that says they can't keep him safe, and can't meet his needs, until we get something. What a system.

A carer’s assessment is a good suggestion by@PenguinsPlayDodgeball. As is a social care assessment for DS from the disabled children’s team if the EHCNA hasn’t included one. Depending on DS’s needs you could also look at continuing care funding. Although none of these will be quick.

You clearly don’t believe the law, but if DS can’t attend school there is s19 provision.

@BlueBrick I just can't find any, and the people in charge, and other people I trust (the school) say there is none.

Don’t take the word of the school or LA. There will be APs. If s19 provision is required there are also options without attending a formal AP setting.

Anyway, I will leave you to it because we are going round in circles here.

I do trust the school. And yes, we are going round in circles, because you don't appear to believe there are remote or rural areas in England, with huge gaps in provision.

No, we are going round in circles because you fail to understand what s19 provision can be (clue it isn’t limited to what you think) and insist there are no APs within 90 mins. No, they aren’t all available via google, many are via word of mouth between professionals (I am not meaning the LA and school here) and experienced SEN parents. However, once again, s19 provision does not have to be within a formal AP setting. Even in remote and rural parts of England s19 provision exists. It must, legally, and can be enforced.

I support parents day in, day out. This is what I do. I have supported thousands of parents across the country. There are options for s19 provision (and EOTAS via EHCPs) whether you want to say there isn’t or not.

Given you didn’t even know s19 provision existed a couple of days ago you can’t have exhausted all avenues of exploring AP.

Parents with SEN children shouldn’t trust schools to give them accurate information.

You're very confident I'm wrong/ignorant for someone who doesn't know my child's needs or situation.

I don’t need to know DS’s needs or your situation to know s19 provision exists whatever LA you live in. The law applies to all LAs. Even those who think it doesn’t. Even those who think the PRU or 1hr tuition a day is the only AP they have to provide when that isn’t the case.

The question is suitable, isn't it? I know my DC's needs.

As posted many, many times, section 19 provision must be whatever provision is suitable. There isn’t one, two or even fifty or a hundred set ways of providing AP. It is whatever is suitable. So, again, no-one needs to know DS’s needs to know s19 provision can be put in place.

However, you stated there wasn’t any AP (which I presume you mean a formal AP setting, rather than other AP not provided at a formal setting that is sometimes provided) within 90mins. I posted there would be an AP (by that I mean a formal AP setting because that is clearly what you meant) within 90mins of you, although whether they are suitable is another matter.

Oh, then, yes. They are alternative provisions for completely different children in every way to my child within 90 minutes. You're right.

So you get to be right.

But knowing that teenagers with autism can learn bike maintenance is totally irrelevant to our situation.