Please help me with DD2's explosive outbursts, I don't know what to do!

[Beebityboo]

I am in real need of some advice and guidance about what to do with DD2. She has always been quite emotional and demanding but after getting quite unwell in the Autumn of 2019 her behaviour started to decline and, after the two lockdowns, is the worst it has ever been.

She isn't aggressive or unkind but she is hugely unpredictable and has an explosive temper. If something makes her jump or if her brother says something to her she doesn't like she will scream and sob and has a really difficult time calming down, they seem like tantrums but it genuinely feels like she can't contain how she feels, it's 0-10 in a second.

She is now exhibiting this behaviour at school too, so much so that they put her on the SEN register in the winter term. She is a sight reader and has been since around 2 years old (that is not an exaggeration or a boast) but she really struggles with writing. Though she has friends and takes pleasure in helping them and sharing they are starting to not want to play with her as if something doesn't go her way she has a meltdown and screams the place down. She has even started shouting at the TA who is wonderful with her .

I don't really know what to do to be honest, we have two older DC's who have never had these behavioural issues (although my eldest has suspected Aspergers) and she comes from a calm, loving home where no one shouts. I am at the end of my rope and feel like a terrible mother as I know that she has been so affected by lockdown as I was having to shield. We have barely been anywhere and she misses her extended family.

The school have recommended she get some help from a mental health professional but I just wonder if that is premature? The only real issue is the screaming and shouting, the rest of the time she is a funny, clever and happy little girl who is completely adored by all of us. Could it be delayed emotional development from not being around/playing with children her own age in so long?

It's such a mess, please give me some advice on what to do!

How old is she?

Sorry thought I had included that! She is 5 and in year 1.

bump

Have SEN suggested having any other sort of assessment than mental health? I am by no means an expert but I have heard that early reading (hyperlexia) can (though not always) be a sign of other things going on, and girls in particular are very good at masking outside of the home, making diagnosis particularly difficult.

No real assessment suggested so far, the senco is observing and it all seems to be at quite an early stage. The onus seems to be on me to get her outside help as they have said that any kind of assessment through them requires a lot of proof and evidence that they don't really have yet for a proper referral.

I just don't really feel that it is a mental health issue as such, she is a pretty typical five year old the majority of the time and happy at home, it's just these sudden outbursts all of the time and, due to lockdown, some moderate separation anxiety. I have also walked past her playing at school a few times and she is always tearing about with friends/laughing and giggling away.

I think it might be worth asking for this thread to be moved to the SEN talk topic as you might get some more support there from people who may have gone through some of these processes. From what I've heard it can be a real battle to get some schools to do as they ought. Not saying this is the case but you will probably get a much better and more helpful response?

Yes that's probably a good idea, how do I move a thread? Don't think I have done it before!

Ask your GP or school nurse for a community paediatrician referral .....they will look at behaviour ( as opposed to mental health)

She sounds like my 7 year old.. she’s also got worse over the last year. I’m not sure if it’s anxiety related. She was also an early reader (and speaker). Seems ok socially but can be very rigid about play and very sensitive to “slights”. But she’s not growing out of the meltdowns...

I was thinking autism before I got to the bit about your DS being suspected on the autistic spectrum. Difficulty managing emotions can be part of autism, you could try some autism friendly techniques to help your DD understand and manage feelings. These can also help if she isn't autistic. It could just be lockdown/a developmental thing, but the fact school have put her on the SEN register suggests your DD is struggling more than other children her age so it's worth investigating.

I don't think the school suspect autism, and when I have read on the typical signs in younger girls it doesn't really sound like DD, other than the difficulty managing emotions. I feel like the school would be making a referral if they suspected autism?

She is also the youngest in her class, and I worry sometimes that that makes her behaviour seem worse than it is?

Report your own thread to MUmsnet and ask in the message for it to be moved.
And in an ideal world schools would be making a referral if they suspected autism, however many times this does not happen in reality without a lot of pushing from the parents.

My almost 8 year old is like this. I am on the Autistic spectrum, I believe she is too (but because she’s okay in school paeds won’t assess her).

One thing that’s made a big difference to home life as reading and implementing The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. DH was sceptical but I got him to read it too. In a nutshell, the book is about children who struggle to express their issues and “unexpectedly” explode. The author suggests that actually when you unpick it, these have an identifiable trigger. He suggests you start with one issue and work on others later. So for us, we worked on bedtimes - DD settled very late. This did mean that teeth brushing slid a bit (picking sleep as the priority). We’ve seen such a massive improvement at home since she’s settling and sleeping better, she’s less emotional and generally easier to calm when she does get worked up. It’s not perfect and she fights against it at times but it’s been worth it.

@AudTheDeepMinded

Report your own thread to MUmsnet and ask in the message for it to be moved. And in an ideal world schools would be making a referral if they suspected autism, however many times this does not happen in reality without a lot of pushing from the parents.

Thanks I'll do this. I did ask her teacher whether he thought it might be autism and he didn't seem to think so and said they would push for a referral if they did. When I have looked into it online it just doesn't seem to fit DD, aside from these periodic meltdowns and perhaps the hypersensitivity to noise.

I've seen that book recommended before @ThePontiacBandit, I think I will pick up a copy.

When she was very unwell I suspect your parenting was rightly very caring and attentive and she enjoyed that level, the last year has been very strange and unsettling for very young children. Is it possible that her screaming and shouting is a causal effect of feeling unsettled and craving the hyper-attention from being unwell to alleviate the stress caused by her illness, starting school and covid Lockdowns...'Tis a lot of processing for a little one. I would not be inclined to go down SEN diagnosis routes for another year. I believe your own intuition is correct. I would explain to her the consequences of screaming/shouting and alienating friends and allow her to settle into school again and leave her be. Should the situation not improve down the line then obviously readdress it then. Good luck Op.

Has she been evaluated for the usual suspects? She sounds as if she could possibly be on the autism spectrum - she wants to be social but her behaviour is starting to interfere with friendships, and the unpredicatable extreme tantrums over things that (from the outside) seem very minor. And as you know from your son, autism can look very different in different children, and girls especially can present very differently from the "traditional" view of autism.

My advice would be to go the GP and ask for a referral to CAMHS (children's mental health) for assessments. The fact that she shows this behaviour at school as well as home means it is worth taking seriously. And it takes a long time to get referrals, so the sooner you start the better. When my DS started to have problems his school said they would refer to the educational psychologist but that I should also go to the GP and ask for a CAMHS referral, because there was a long wait for both and DS would be helped by whoever saw him first! My DS was also a very ordinary five year old until things didn't go his way, and then things would get really out of hand very fast. He was diagnosed with an ASC.

And a book that I found very useful was Ross Greene's Explosive Child book and Lives in The Balance website. It's not just for kids with autism and it has some good strategies for de-escalating tantrums.

@Bearnecessity

When she was very unwell I suspect your parenting was rightly very caring and attentive and she enjoyed that level, the last year has been very strange and unsettling for very young children. Is it possible that her screaming and shouting is a causal effect of feeling unsettled and craving the hyper-attention from being unwell to alleviate the stress caused by her illness, starting school and covid Lockdowns...'Tis a lot of processing for a little one. I would not be inclined to go down SEN diagnosis routes for another year. I believe your own intuition is correct. I would explain to her the consequences of screaming/shouting and alienating friends and allow her to settle into school again and leave her be. Should the situation not improve down the line then obviously readdress it then. Good luck Op.

Yes this is along the lines of what I am thinking but it feels like I am under a bit of pressure from the school. They are supportive but I know she is probably distracting the other children and I do feel that we're under pressure to "fix" her, iyswim? I really feel that with a bit of stability in her life and more access to play with other children she will really improve, I just wish she wouldn't behave badly in school. It upsets her afterwards also as she loves doing well/loves praise and loves her teacher to bits. I think I was a little over indulgent when she was unwell, and perhaps since then. They suspected it might be cancer and I was terrified. She really went through the wringer for a few weeks. Then the pandemic started .

Hello OP Just popping on to let you know that we're going to move this one over to SEN for you now. We hope you get the advice and support that you are after over there.

Another one who thinks autism should be considered. IME schools are not great at recognising the signs in girls (especially academically able ones) as they present so differently than the ‘typical’ autism recognised in boys.

Even if this is not the case many of the strategies developed for autistic girls may be useful with the issues you have.

One book that’s helped me with my dd is the highly sensitive child... it basically
explains that some children have a different disposition to others making them
more sensitive and some
ways to understand manage the pressures they are feeling. It says about 10% people
fall into this category / type and since reading it I can recognise in myself too.

Can autism be considered when only one or perhaps two typical 'symptoms' are shown? I know it is more difficult to spot in girls but when she was younger she showed no other signs, nothing was mentioned at nursery though she did struggle a bit in reception also, mainly due to a house move and being so little still. They didn't show as much concern then, it's mainly when she went back last September that they started to show concern and then I got a call in December saying that they were going to put her on the SEN register.

Sometimes I feel that she is the most badly behaved in the class. I think it's the shouting they struggle with, no matter how many times we tell her she can't shout at school/strategies the teacher uses it just doesn't seem to help. It happens at least three times a week at school.