if your child turned out to be dyslexic were there early signs?

[rhetorician]

looking back, would you say that there were early signs? DD1 is 3.2 and generally lovely and interested in lots of things (e.g. can tell you names of lots of plants, flowers and birds, the directions to places etc), speech pretty good. She knows a few letters and maybe a couple of numbers, but (so far) doesn't seem very interested - which is fine. Her uncle is dyslexic as is her grandfather, so I guess I am curious as to what to watch out for, if anything at this early stage.

TIA - and apologies if this is a stupid question - I know a bit about dyslexia from my work, but not about how it might manifest (if at all) in small children

I teach at university level, and every year I have a small number of recently diagnosed dyslexics who come to my attention (sometimes I suggest they get tested, sometimes they come to me with their reports); almost all of these students have coped in our education system (in Ireland, so heavily based on writing, memorising etc) and many of them have done well in it. Mind you, this might well be a sign that insufficient attention is being paid at earlier stages, and no doubt there are large numbers of children who are simply lost to education because of this.

My dd I think is not interested in letters because it hasn't occurred to her that words are made of letters and so she can't see that this is how she will read/ She does like books, and will 'read' a story to us or her little sister. She is extremely observant, and not any worse at sequencing than the average 3 year old - but isn't it interesting.

On a side note, my optician has a particular interest in dyslexia and often identifies children much earlier than parents or education providers...

the one thing I notice about dd is that she confuses 'up' and 'down' and other oppositions large/small, on/off; anything you teach to her aurally she remembers pretty much instantly (songs, stories). She can count, but it's a bit haphazard (e.g. will only do it if there's a payoff), but doesn't know most of her numbers (despite extensive exposure to numberjacks )

rhetorician, another very common problem, once the do start reading is the mixing up of small words, so:
as / at
in / on
on / no
the / then / there

Also, very common is correctly identifying a common well used word, such as cat on one line & then being completely unable to read it again a few lines further down the page.

DS 16 didn't learn to crawl properly, just comando then walked at 10 months.
Speach behind understanding by quite a lot. At 5 tested as an adult in receptive language but
Obviously very bright but slow to read, didn't really click until 7.
He can read well now but spelling and writing still not that good in comparison to the "rest of him"
He does have poor short term memory, can never remember what day of the week it is, or where he has just put something.

For those of you with young children looking for early signs, I think you will know yourselves in Reception or Y1 if you think there are real problems for your child.

My best advice that I wish someone had given me is as follows:
do not rely on the school to help your child - our school very much failed our child
do not rely on the school to identify a problem or even to agree once you have raised concerns - it will probably not be agreed until the problem has become unecessarily big and has existed for several years.
get your child extra help on a weekly basis if possible as soon as you suspect a problem - my child would not let me help her myself so I had to pay for this help. I left it until Y3 to get help for my dd and she absolutely suffered for this delay.

expect that your child will probably need a lot of extra help over several years

don't be suprised though if your child does very very well at secondary school without still needing any extra support by this age

As I said earlier in the thread dyslexics are not alike and dyslexia takes many forms - this is really my own experience and yours may be very different.

Dyslexia did blight many of my child's primary years - with earlier support things would have been better. She is really flourishing in the secondary school environment though - it has been better then I ever dared to hope for.

My dd has mild dyslexia (taking part in some research about auditory processing, but otherwise not officially diagnosed)

Some characteristics of hers I feel could be related are that she is very untidy, finds it hard to do two things at once eg listen if she has her head in a book !
She loves art and has been recognised as talented in design (by school)
She was an early and sophisticated talker - but I don't know how related that is to her dyslexia. She is very bright - again not sure how that relates to the way her mind works !

I think I have related traits though sadly not the gifted artist that both my children seem to be. Feel I have attention deficit traits too - Though never recognised as don't think they bothered with such subtle diagnosis of NNT traits in my day ! Sink or swim in them days !

DD1 Late to talk and hardly bothered crawling.
Hopeless at putting names to faces and connecting facts to people. From nursery up wards found making friends difficult.
Doesn't pick up social clues and does her own thing.
Yet is very empathetic, instantly recognised if any one was hurt or upset. Hated arguments on TV.

Always getting in a muddle and fussing. Loosing track of which instruction was the important one.

Totally disinterested in toys, loved to fiddle with anything she shouldn't have.

Learnt her very basic letter sounds and then it all went pear shaped. Found learning to read and spell incredibly frustrating.

Wild guesses at words and forgetting them next time they appeared. Total inability to apply phonic knowledge to reading or spelling. Writes sentences that change tense in the middle.

In context substitutions like hedge for fence or stream for river. As if she's read the word right, but the brain sends the wrong word to her mouth.

(I tend to do this too, loved paraphrasing text and loath reading out load)

Huge gap between her reading writing ability and the impression you'd get talking to her. Very chatty, large vocab. very quick to understand anything that isn't just remembering isolated facts. Good and science and maths, but still doesn't know her tables. Useless at MFL.

Finally learnt to read in the January of Y6 as she turned 11!

At 14 still can't easily tell left from right or read an analogue clock.
Never has her head out of a book, has a reading age of 16 on a comprehension test but is still full of errors out loud.
Still has a spelling age of about 9. DD1 Late to talk and hardly bothered crawling.
Hopeless at putting names to faces and connecting facts to people. From nursery up wards found making friends difficult.
Doesn't pick up social clues and does her own thing.
Yet is very empathetic, instantly recognised if any one was hurt or upset. Hated arguments on TV.

Always getting in a muddle and fussing. Loosing track of which instruction was the important one.

Totally disinterested in toys, loved to fiddle with anything she shouldn't have.

Learnt her very basic letter sounds and then it all went pear shaped. Found learning to read and spell incredibly frustrating.

Wild guesses at words and forgetting them next time they appeared. Total inability to apply phonic knowledge to reading or spelling. Writes sentences that change tense in the middle.

In context substitutions like hedge for fence or stream for river. As if she's read the word right, but the brain sends the wrong word to her mouth.

(I tend to do this too, loved paraphrasing text and loath reading out load)

At 14 still can't easily tell left from right or read an analogue clock.

Her written work is still a mess and because she can't think how to write the the word she needs. Spelling age of 9, but a reading age of 16 in a comprehension test. Reading out load is still very inaccurate, but somehow she extracts meaning, always has.

Sorry insanely long

Sorry I copied that part way through because I'm on my iPod and my wireless sometimes fails to post.
No idea how paste got pressed

Essential Fatty Acid, Totally agree with all your advice and totally agree with your experiences of primary and secondary. My son is in Year 7 and I cannot believe how much better it is. He is taking off too!!! Primary School was not good - they couldn't see beyond the spelling mistakes to the content beneath! This is so unlike secondary where there is so much more emphasis on creativity, knowledge and content. He's doing really well in science where almost every answer is correct despite every answer being wrongly spelt!

Your dd sounds like a very interesting mixture of my dd and me startail

• beginning to recognise more and more that I have dyslexic and/or ADD characteristics too. (As well as DD having them, which has been recognised by her schools, and as I mentioned she's been taking part in a research project for several years)

As I said no-one paid much attention to NNT traits in our day did they ?!

I'm paying £400 to get my ten year old tested. He's such a nice boy and doing okay, has developed lots of strategies, and si not disruptive so noone wnats to part with the schools budget.

Ds took off at secondary, he did have a lot of one to one help with spelling in primary, but I dont think what Ds is good at is not measurable in primary ie thinking outside the box and the ability to analyse history or Shakespeare.

Yeh, dd has really taken off in secondary too (now in Y8)

• in fact she's just brought her very good report home today - so proud

Really nice that she had great comments in English and other essay subjects - so they must be looking at the content and all her great ideas, and not getting too hung up/over critical about spellings (which remain idiosynchratic) like I fear they would have done in my day.

(Though I've always struggled more with organisational aspects and not so much with spellings - though spell checker has a few complaints with this post )

Interesting Startail, my DS is just mildly dyslexic but displays many of the traits you describe with the exception that he was bilingual when younger (we lived abroad).

Another trait is highly technical drawings (currently halo characters) but completely without background. I have heard that this is quite a typical trait (something to do with tunnel vision).

This thread is quite a revelation. It's great to hear about all the other kids that have taken off in secondary school. Totally agree Buffin - what my ds is good at was also not measurable at primary... creativity and originality etc. Those silly writing SATS tests don't give out high marks for originality. Primary did not get him at all but Secondary seemed to get him from Day One! I've been in honeymoon period since September. Have to add that this is not the case for my friend's son who has very severe dyslexia.

Niceweather my dd is really flying at science too - it's her favourite subject

I am loving hearing about how many dyslexic kids take off in secondary school having had a rough ride of primary

I think my son might be dyslexic. He's struggled since reception with concentrating on the more formal parts of learning - copying, writing, reading. We changed schools last christmas to a school that had more of an emphasis on practical learning, and learning outside, etc, which he was really helpful for him last year. Since he's been in year two though, his old problems are starting to return, since they are starting to do more writing, sitting down and concentrating. His issues at age seven are :

• struggling to concentrate.
• If he has to copy text, he will painstakingly do it letter by letter, frequently going back to cross out/erase bits and still end up with missing letters and words, incomplete sentences and bits that dont make sense. If he goes back and checks, he will likely miss most of these mistakes.
• according to his teacher, he hasn't really moved on ability wise since y1
• quite a few letters and numbers still frequently written back to front
• very disorganised and forgetful. Would never remember to give a message/hand in dinner money/ask the teacher something without many reminders just before he has to do it.
• reading is getting much better and fluent but he frequently will stop to sound out a word and sound it out backwards/with the first letter totally wrong, quite often reads words backwards.
• if he doesn't have lined paper, one sentence could take up a whole page of a4, crazily snaking accross the page. His letters are different sizes, there's often a big one in the middle of little ones.
• sometimes he just refuses to try at school. Often when he's been off on a half term, and then he goes back. Last time this happened he was in a support group for writing andthey had to copy sentences. His teacher got cross with him because he only did about two in half an hour. then he refused to do any more, so we took it home to do. It took him two hours to do six sentences, with lots of mistakes, coppying letter by letter. But he did it!
• really struggles with complicated instructions
• talking to him though he is really interested in things, his teacher frequently says that the work he has made a "poor effort" with is well within his capabilities.

His teacher is going to set the wheels in motion to get him assessed now he has just turned seven. I have no idea how long this will take but she said we will have to "shout very loudly" to get it done

Sorry to hijack your thread rhetorican, just that a lot of the things others have listed on here ring true for ds, and I hope that we can soon figure out what's making him tick so we can work with him to help him manage a bit easier!!

It sounds to me like your DS is putting in a huge amount of effort in his written work geraldine

I wish there was more understanding from, and less pressure on, teachers and teaching assistants (having worked in both roles)

• It makes me cross though to hear of teachers so often telling children that they have made a "poor effort" etc.

IMHO Those that are struggling are often putting in way more effort than those who find it all plain sailing (and are NT without the challenges of dyslexia or other learning disabilities)

I so wish there could be a more sympathetic and individual approach to children. I'm sure that extra year of play and experience based learning you found for him in the other school will have done him a lot of good at an age where he would have found more formal written work even more of a struggle.

Glad the school are positive about seeking an assessment for him.

With my daughter's IEP I always spoke up for keeping her love of learning and providing opportunities for her to express her ideas through her drawings as well as in writing - I was keen to try to take some of the pressure out of the situation, and to make sure the school knew there wasn't any coming from me.
When she was ready (in Y5 & 6) and she found some good authors she wanted to read her reading took off !

At the end of primary both her reading and writing were better than most !
Children with dyslexia have interesting minds -
They don't follow the bog standard learning curve of their class-mates.
A lot of trouble caused by too much emphasis on targets IMO

Try to keep a love of learning alive outside of what happens in school - through visits to interesting places and lots of talk.
This would be my strongest advice to surviving and thriving through primary with a child with dyslexia

Thanks you for that lovely reply, Juggling! And for telling me about your daughter's story, I'm really glad she's doing so well now

He does make a big effort with his writing, at least at home, he has some of those Letts activity books, he loves the ones that are all magic and wizard based and genuinely he really enjoys ploughing through them. When he's had a particularly difficult week at school, which is usually when he goes back after a break, he asks to do extra work at home to get better. So it's difficult because he really WANTS to do well, but something is making him struggle. I really hope that an assessment will give us some answers so we can help him, then I feel awful for almost wanting him to be diagnosed with something!!!

He definitely has an interesting mind - hes a bit out there sometimes , hes lovely - aggrivating but lovely

thanks for your advice it's really helped!

geraldine no need to apologise! it's turned into a really interesting discussion; I have no idea about dd at this stage, but a few things do ring bells, and she is very definitely a bit quirky - doesn't like to respect the categories that others impose (e.g. she doesn't see why she shouldn't mix up crayon and paint on a picture), but this may turn out simply to be the sign of an independent thinker...it's all interesting

I agree about terminology like 'poor effort' though - that's pretty shocking in this day and age. I know that we will have to push very hard to get support if it turns out to be needed - but the stories of achievement at secondary school level are really heartening

My dd was pleased to know she was dyslexic as it made no sense to her that she tried probably harder than anyone but still got just average to low marks in primary. She still thought she must be stupid despite everything I tried to do to make her think otherwise. It was awful. She tells me now that although she was happy that I always told her she was clever, she never ever thought it was an objective opinion .

Finally, in Y7, she has realised she is not stupid, which is awesome. I would have given a lot to have managed to get her to believe this at an earlier age. Be mindful, all of you with dyslexic primary schoolers - get help for them as soon as you can, don't wait for the school to help them as unless they are significantly underachieving as compared to the lowest achievers in the class they will be left to fend for themselves and untold damage may be done imo.

I don't necessarily agree that they will be left to fend for themselves if they are not underchieving compared to the lowest achievers.
DS wasprobably just under average for english, but they gave him one to one help for spelling using Stareway to Spelling and various other schemes. I was told this was because it was obvious that his writing was a long way behind the rest of him IYSWIM. I was told if the rest of him was average he prabably wouldn't have got any other help.
He ended up scraping a 4 by one point for writing but a high level 5 for reading, which shows the difference in his abilities.
In secondary he is on the g&r list for a number of subjects as well as the SEN register.

The difference between primary and secondary is incredible. I totally agree with everything Essential has said. Primary schools won't do anything unless you are say 2 years behind. All the emphasis on Levels and SATS means that creative abilities get ignored and receive no recognition. These kids are putting in loads of effort which will hopefully serve them well in the future and the lack of recognition will give them a hunger to succeed. My son is now getting really good marks and comments like "outstanding" on his work because they are looking at the content and not at the spelling. Primary school had him sitting on the bottom table.

fortunately as we don't live in the UK DD will be spared SATS and levels etc - there is a curriculum, of course, but it isn't anything like as structured, despite parental pressure to introduce testing - people seem to think testing weeds out weak teachers, but from what I read on here, it doesn't help children that much, and just means that teachers are unable to to actually educate children other than in relation to the test. But that's a different thread...

In fairness Bruffin, my son did also get some extra help with maths and spelling. I think it depends on the school and how many other children are in the queue for extra help. My son got a Level 3 writing and a Level 5 reading and has also now been picked up by the G&T co-ordinator.