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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

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Original poster

Does my daughter have special educational needs?

26 replies

mike1May · 23/01/2012 22:43

We received a letter from the nursery today (our daughter is 4) stating that our daughter has special needs because she 'doesn't listen in at storytime like the other children, has an unwillingness to share, and is unwilling to take her turn at play'.

This seems ridiculous to me. Yes, our daughter has mitochondrial disease, but has been assessed as having the IQ of a 5 year old. The mitochondrial disease means she can be unsteady on her feet.

I don't know what to do? Does having special needs 'tar' a child throughout school (no offence intended)? Is it beneficial to support such a recommendation or fight it?

Thanks for any advice.

Mike and Louise.

OP posts:

ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 22:47

well i know this because i spent years fighting to have my son put on the SEN register and was gobsmacked when in nursery the school wanted to put my daughter on it for being quiet and shy....

go with your instincts i think. go and listen to what the school have to say, a letter means nothing - you need a meeting to find out exactly what any potential problems may be.

nursery do see hundreds of kids, so imo its worth hearing them out.

ouryve · 23/01/2012 22:51

IQ on its own is meaningless. Having SEN means a child needs extra help to have the same chances in education as others. My DS1 has a high IQ but has ASD and ADHD, both of which make it very difficult for him to access education without intensive help. I don't consider him to be "tarred". He is what he is and it would be doing him a disservice to insist that wishful thinking would eradicate the need for intervention that enables him to stay in school.

thisisyesterday · 23/01/2012 22:51

well special educational needs merely means that your child may need extra help in her education,. not that she herself has soemthing wrong with her, if that makes sense?

i'm going to say that I think the things they're saying are a bit i mean I am sure that there are plenty of 4 yr olds who don't sit and listen to stories and aren't willing to share!

but the special educational needs (as far as i'm aware) just means that they will give her extra help in any areas she is struggling with, so maybe they will try and help her play games that encourage sharing and stuff?

talk to them more though, ask them why they feel this is necessary, why they think she is different to the other children and what they will be doing to remedy and "problems" they feel she has

it certainly shouldn't "tar" her throughout her school life

AngiBolen · 23/01/2012 22:53

Have the nursery not spoken to you in person about her difficulties already?

What do they plan to put in place to help her share and take turns, and listen at story time? (I would want to know exactly what they mean by not listen...is she not paying attention, or actively disruptive?)

Personally I've always taken any help school has offered me, and never fought anything.

Original poster

mike1May · 23/01/2012 22:53

My instincts are to get angry - it seems fatuous. Not sure that is the right repsonse though!
Will the SEN annotation follow her through her childhood? Would it be an advantage in terms of extra attention, or a disadvantage?

Got a meeting arranged for 4pm Friday. Need to understand the justifcation for this.

OP posts:

Buggerit · 23/01/2012 22:54

Is that all they are basing it on, it seems a bit woolly. I would speak to your gp, he can refer dd if he feels the need, if something is found there are so many things that can be discreetly done, she will not be wearing a large t shirt sayin I have sn. My ds has sn and ishas been in mainstream school with a little extra assistance and is doing well. It may be that there is nothing found or nothing to report, then there maybe no further action taken. My advice would be better safe than sorry, speak to your gp, show him the letter.

ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 22:59

dont get angry - please - they have your DD s best interests at heart and of course you will take this personally but you should try not to.

my DS has aspergers, dyspraxia and dyslexia - his IQ is way higher than mine. He s at uni now.

it wont "tar" her and its not like it even has to be public knowledge. Go to the meeting, try and stay relaxed and really go with an open mind and listen to what is being said.
make notes.
ask questions.
endeavour to work with the school. You will get more out of any meetings/conversations that way - of course you can say what you think but please be open minded. They will want to support your DD. thats all. Are you sure there is no more to it than she isnt a good listener? most 4 yr olds arent...perhaps there are other little things that they have picked up on. dont panic, dont get angry or defensive, just go along and see what they have to say.

Buggerit · 23/01/2012 23:00

Sorry, ds was never in nursery, didn't occur to advise speak to them first, but of course you should and find out exactly what they mean. Maybe your hv can also help?

Original poster

mike1May · 23/01/2012 23:00

So many responses so quickly, I can't reply to them all. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time.

Buggerit - your son is in mainstream school. We want this for our duaghter. Is this the norm with special needs chldren (tbh, we don't know what special needs actually means)?

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ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 23:03

my son has SEN - special educational needs and he was in mainstream. There is a special needs code of practice available from your local education authority or online - get one and it explains everything. you can just phone the council and ask for the LEA (local education authority) they will send you one out in the post.

thisisyesterday · 23/01/2012 23:04

agree with everything vicar has said!

my 7 yr old has high-functioning autism and is in mainstream school and also doing very well.
only one of the mums at schools knows of his diagnosis and that he officially has SN.

Original poster

mike1May · 23/01/2012 23:04

Vicar - when you say "Are you sure there isn't more to it?"
This should not be relevant. Our daughter started nursery in October. In October, we discovered that my wife had cancer and the last few months have been stressful. There is just no way that Isabelle (our daughter) could know this though: we deliberately kept it from her. That's the only change in what is a routine existence for all of us.

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ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 23:04

linky

MamaMaiasaura · 23/01/2012 23:08

I'm crap at doing link but I had similar issues with preschool for my ds2. I'll bump my post for you. Mines ongoing but fwiw the preschool cannot diagnose SEN.

MamaMaiasaura · 23/01/2012 23:09

It's in preschool education topic

Original poster

mike1May · 23/01/2012 23:09

Thanks for the link and thanks to everyone for the very helpful replies.
But fundamentally - is this something we should embrace or something we should challenge?
(We've learned there is no stigma but still unsure what is best).

Thank you.

OP posts:

ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 23:10

no - i didnt actually meant that mike but of course children are very perceptive and do pick up in any changes in the atmosphere at home - even if you think you havent given anything away, plus starting school is a big change in routine in itself.

what i meant was are you sure that the nursery staff have not picked up on other little pointers that may mean that they want to speak to you - does the letter only mention those 3 things - her listening skills, her sharing and her turn taking?

have you explained the situation at home to the school - i know you may think its none of their business but it may help to know the things that may effect all of you?

im just trying to help here btw....

Hassled · 23/01/2012 23:10

In a school setting, any child who is identified (usually a term or so after they start) as needing some additional help will be given an Individual Eduaction Plan (IEP). That in itself will usually place the child on the school's SEN register. And it could well be, for example, that Little Jimmy is not making the progress you'd expect in writing letter shapes, but he's given a bit more support and intervention at school and after a couple of terms or less he's made enough progress that he doesn't need an IEP anymore and is taken off the SEN register. That happens a lot - it's not necessarily some sort of shackle a child carries round with them for their school career.

Re what SEN means - what it says. Any additional needs that may be a barrier to learning - verbal, behavioural, emotional, physical. The barrier to learning is the key - this is what SEN intervention should aim to remove. The nursery should have an SEN policy which will be useful.

I think in your case you have to trust the judgement and experience of the nursery staff, who have seen a lot of children and have some sense of what is appropriate behaviour in a 4 year old in those circumstances. Listen to them, stop panicking, see what you can do to support both the nursery and your daughter. This may be a big long term deal; it probably won't be. If she needs a bit of extra help, take it.

ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 23:12

dont do either - dont challenge - dont embrace. just stay openminded - it shouldnt have to be combative.

just see what they have to say to you, take it away, digest it, work with them, they have your childs best interests at heart i am sure.

when my DD was put on the SEN register they took her off it again within the year.

my son stayed on it forever but that was the doorway to getting tailored help for him.

its not all or nothing. your dont have to embrace/challenge.

MamaMaiasaura · 23/01/2012 23:14

We had the inclusion officer assess the preschool today on how it can meet ds's needs. They've made useful recommendations to help and referring to speech and language therapies too. This is probably a first step for him to get extra support. I have needed to put aside my feelings of failing him in some way and embrace that he is who he is and. Wry lovely he is too

ThatVikRinA22 · 23/01/2012 23:15

agree with Hassled - she explained it far better. My ds has been out of the school system for a long time now!

Buggerit · 24/01/2012 07:35

I agree with what has been written, this is something that needs to be entered into with an open mind. I am sorry to hear that tip has happened at a difficult time for you and your wife. The meeting will highlight what they have observed and a way forward will be found. I don't think mainstream school is the automatic way forward but I believe it is preferred, if sn is diagnosed you make choices based on the information, you will have choices about schools, advice on what input level is requireed to help you make that choice, nothing is forced, and advice and support is always available. As the post above suggests, are you completely sure that her behaviour is not a reaction to the home situation, little ones are very good av picking up on the 'elephant in the room'

Chandon · 24/01/2012 07:41

in my experience it is good thing as she will get extra help if needed.

my DS1 was diagnosed with emotional -social SEN, and that just meant they helped him, there was a plan..

he is 9 now and has grown out of it, so defo not "tarred" for life,

Niceweather · 25/01/2012 10:04

In my opinion it is a good thing too. When it was first suggested to me that my son was put on the SEN register, I too was horrified and said "no". I later changed my mind and he was put on it and he has now been taken off it, against my wishes. I don't think there is any stigma attached. Some schools have a very very high percentage of SEN - it may mean the schools get more funding.

It will hopefully mean that your child should get extra help and will be flagged up.

reallytired · 25/01/2012 10:18

It is horrible when someone suggests that your child is not developing as they should. Having an IEP is not the end of the world and it doesn't mean that your daughter is stupid. It just means she needs a little bit of extra help. I think it would be a mistake to fight the school.

My son was on the special needs register during keystage 1, but he is now off the special needs register. His IEP made sure that he got extra help with hand writing. He no longer has an IEP and is on the top table for everything.

I agree with Buggerit that small children are very good at sussing out when something is wrong. I am sorry to hear that your daughter's mother has cancer. It must be a terrible worry for your family.

Have you considered getting your daughter's hearing tested. If she has glue ear then that might explain her problems.

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