2 year old night sleep pattern

[Frazzled]

I have two children aged five and two. The five year old is a brilliant sleeper and has been for the last couple of years. However, the two year old had a good sleep pattern but it altered when she had a severe cold. After the cold was over, we had to resort to sleep training, but found that if we did not get to her quick enough she made herself sick. We have now put her into a bed in the thought that she did not like the cot but i am finding now that she wakes two or three times a night. Unfortunately the only way to settle her is milk or juice (two no-nos!). Any ideas on how to reestablish her night time routine would be appreciated.

Cass - don't panic! Sounds like you are nearly there! My health visitor helped me with sleep training and told me that usually around the 5th night the child rebels and you think you are back where you started. She told me if you get through this hideous stage then within the next night or so you will have a child that sleeps all night. And boy was she right!

The first night of sleep training was awful - screaming, crying for nearly an hour and a half. The next night slightly reduced and so on and so forth. Night four was better, only a few minutes upset. Night five - terrible. Back to hour and a half screaming. Night six went down without a fuss and actually slept all night for the first time in 9 months. After two weeks bedtime was bliss. Then we had to tackle middle of the night waking. Same scenario, but was quicker to crack.

I know it is awful. I know it tugs at heart strings and makes you feel a completely wicked parent and I know it takes iron will. But it is worth it in the long run for you and your child. Stick with it - chat to your health visitor for some further tips perhaps/reassurance that you are doing the right things. I am so pleased we did sleep training - the difference in my well rested son was noticeable immediately and I was happier too. Good luck.

Cass, I am in the middle of sleep-training my 8 month old, and it's been a bit of a roller-coaster for 9 days now, so I really sympathise. We haven't cracked it yet, It is making a big difference though, she is sleeping so much better and is loads happier - she was just as grumpy from lack of sleep as I was before (it just ain't true that they sleep as much as they need), so although I sometimes feel like the wicked witch of the west, I do think it's helping her too.

It sounds like you're doing this on your own, is there someone who can help? If you can do alternate stints with a partner/friend/relative, it tears much less at your nerves, so it's easier to keep cheerful and positive, which I think helps get the message across that bedtime is not so terrible.

Another thing that's helped us is keeping a chart showing sleep/crying/waking times round the clock (which dp fills in daily, as she is the kind of anal obsessive who gets a kick out of colouring in small boxes). We have had some bad and some good nights since we started this, but the chart helps us see that overall progress is so much in the right direction.

Keep going, or all the grief you've endured so far will have been for nothing - you'll get there!

I too have a twenty month old who slept like an angel from 8pm to 8am but suddenly has started to scream himself to sleep and waking very early ranging from 4am to 6am and screaming for mummy. We have to soothe him and slowly back out of the room when we think he is asleep or just get up. I'm knackered and can't understand the sudden change. However from reading the messages it seems that it is not unusual around this age. Does anyone know whether this is a developmental stage and that night terrors or fear of the dark may have set in? Help I just want to get back to normal again.

I'm also suffering with night-waking. My 10 month old has started waking at around 1a.m and thinking it's playtime. As she had been sleeping 12 hours a night since she was 5 weeks I can't cope. She's at nursery full-time si Gina Ford's routines are no help. We had one attempt at controlled crying, we were all awake from 1-5 a.m She never got particularly loud/hysterical/sick but was certainly persistent. I'm still avoiding the neighbours. Should we bite the bullet and try sleep training again? Have noticed that when i go straight in she settles immediately but if I leave her she wakes up completely making things much worse. Help!!

You say GF routines are no help... have you read her case stories or Q&As (in her book but also on this site) to see if she hasn't come across a similar problem and how she resolved it ?
How long has your daughter been doing this for ?
My son (2 yo) who goes to bed every night at 7PM and for the past week decided to cry as soon as we put him to bed so we kept going back (because it was faster to comfort him then to let him get into a state)... but 2 days ago my husband said that we should leave him to cry as he was fine and had just started this new behaviour... so I did let him cry and it lasted for 20 to 30 minutes. Guess what : last he didn't cry at all...
My point is that it's fine to go the first 3 or 4 nights but maybe you should let her know that she must sleep now and that you are also in bed, etc... and maybe try the following night to let her cry... see how long it last. The first time is likely to be 30 minutes. This usually works.

She's a complete angel about going to bed, not a murmur. When we did leave her to cry at 1am we were up for hours whereas if you go in and stick a dummy in she goes off immediately. Weird thing is she doesn't need a dummy to go to sleep at any other time. She's only been doing this for a couple of weeks and it's not every night so I guess I should be grateful... GF routines aren't compatible with nursery routine and aren't adaptable. It would be great if she stopped altogether but as we were spoilt from such a young age I can't help feeling we should just go with the flow. One thing GF did say is that this common in babies who are trying to walk, as she's been taking steps over the past few days maybe the end is in sight!

I am not going to start a GF debate here (there are plenty on the other boards) but both my kids are on GF routines and both go to nursery - and yes nursery has a very different time table but they still adapt to GF when they are home.
Maybe you can continue with the dummy and she will sort herself out soon. It is likely to be a phase as you say. It is when it gest conpletely out of hands that it becomes difficult to fix or you need to take more drastic measures.
How lomg does she sleep at nursery ? Having asked the question, I don't think it is the reason she wakes - especially if she goes right back to sleep with a dummy.....

I can only suggest that you look here if there aren't any suggestions :
www.mumsnet.com/livechat03sleep.html

Nursery have been really brilliant, only allowing her an hour's sleep in the day (at our request) and it was them that managed to stop her using the dummy to get off to sleep (in my defence I submitted my pHD 6 weeks after she was born so peace and quiet were my priority in the early days). It's nice to know that other babies have also gone from being every parent's dream to something a bit more normal!
As she doesn't wake every night, always wakes at around the same time, and only stayed awake when we tried to ignore her I wonder if she comes into her light sleep at around that time and something is disturbing her.

Nursery have been really brilliant, only allowing her an hour's sleep in the day (at our request) and it was them that managed to stop her using the dummy to get off to sleep (in my defence I submitted my pHD 6 weeks after she was born so peace and quiet were my priority in the early days). It's nice to know that other babies have also gone from being every parent's dream to something a bit more normal!
As she doesn't wake every night, always wakes at around the same time, and only stayed awake when we tried to ignore her I wonder if she comes into her light sleep at around that time and something is disturbing her.

It is so reassuring to read about other mad sleep-resisting toddlers, but I'm still freaking out about this phase. Our problems have taken a turn for the worse as DD has been ill for the last week or so, regularly throwing up and particularly when at night when she has coughing fits. The whole issue of bed/sleep resistance and throwing up have become one nightmarish mess - she cries, she throws up, I get her out the cot, she turns purple the minute I try and get her back in. And because I'm terrified of her throwing up again, I give in and she goes to sleep clinging on to me as we both lie in a snivelling heap on my bed. Well, actually I don't cry but I always feel crying or screaming. I can't imagine our nanny will want to babysit while this is going on and that is my lifeline gone - I'm a single parent. My mind is going wild with all the bad terrible things that will happen. At the very least I know I have an almighty battle on my hands when she is well again and I try and get her to go to sleep in her cot again.
When does it get better? When can you begin to reason with them a bit more?

Jayc, I really feel for you but has anything happened in her or your life that she might be feeling worried about ? New carer ? new partner for you ? more work or stress for you ??? You do sound worried and maybe your daughter is picking up on this and making it worse. She may be in need of extra TLC but also a firm reassuring voice (with a convinced tone !) that she will be all right. This won't work overnight but you can slowly try to put her back on track.
Is she coughing during the day ?
When she starts coughing at night is there anyway you can go quickly to her - to avoid her getting to awake and maybe sing to her (in the dark) with a cuddle (I would recommend that you tell how many songs you will sing). DS did manage to get me up to 10 songs... so now I give pre-warning. One more song and then you must sleep - to which he retorts "one more" and I say no, we agreed one song, please sleep now and 95% of the time this is the end of it.... when it's not I have to admit it's because I am willing to give in and he picks up on that... they are very clever those toddlers !
Worth a try if you haven't already.... good luck !

Pupuce, thanks for these suggestions. They are very helpful. I can't think of anything that might of upset her recently - no new things in her life, lots of love and affection from everyone around her and, apart from that time around bedtime, very happy days.
I'm sure you're right that she is picking up on my anxiety and my lack of conviction. There is no doubt that she has been ill and the coughing and being sick are part of the illness. So I think I will wait a few days more before tackling the going to bed stuff. I'm sure you are right that the babes pick up on mum's state of mind and are good judges.

Can anyone help me to work this out? My 25 month old dd who has been a great through the night sleeper apart from teething, since 10 weeks old has started waking up between 1.00am and 4.00am nearly every night. When i bring her in to bed with us, after trying to settle her in her cot, she is very happy but has 'mentioned' the words tiger and monster. So, is she having nightmares, or is the cot now too small for her (when she comes in to us, she does thrash around, but dont they all?) or is this just being two. I dont think she is too hot or cold, she is not teething, and is well. Any ideas?

My dh who put dd to bed tonight says she said no monster tonight daddy, so if she is having nightmares and is aware of it, any ideas how to help apart from lots of cuddles?

Thumper, I think this was looked at on another thread recently (can't remember which one sorry). Am having similar probs with dd (same age). I haven't heard a solution for it yet though, I suppose reassurance that 'monster has gone away now' will help (which I'm sure you do anyway) but you can't physically stop nightmares can you?! Its a toughie...

Can I just mention this briefly as I'm really excited, dd went into her new bedroom yesterday (first time in her own room) and we took the sides off the cot bed (thinking it might aswell be a all or nothing situation!)making it into proper bed and she was fine - loved it -hurray, another milestone cracked! (But now I want my baby back...!)

Thanks Lizzer. I think you are right, just lots of reassurance and cuddles.I suppose I was a bit surprised that they were happening now - seemed a bit young, thought she'd inherited her mummy's vivid imagination!

Glad your dd's move into her new bedroom and proper bed went well - hope it continues. That's next on the agenda for us and although I'm excited about it, I know what you mean about 'losing' your baby!

On the nightmare front, a suggestion yesterday by my newsagent was to put a piece of metal, eg a key under her bed to ward off the nightmares. Mmm, interesting. Ah well, I'll try anything once!

It can help if you both check out the bedroom each evening for monsters, by looking under the bed, in the wardrobe etc, to make sure nothing is hiding. My son said he had a troll under his bed but he would sleep happily as long as he could leap into the bed from a distance, so the troll couldn't grab his ankles!!!

Love the troll story, SueDonim! Thanks for the advice. I will try that out.

thumper - not as thrilling as the key idea - but have you looked at her diet last thing? How much food, milk etc. Also - probably more important - the combination of protein adn starch etc. May be a digestion thing? (Think grown ups and cheese)

Jayc, please send an update! I need some hope, see night waking -at my wits end thread!!??