How do you get a Prschooler to bed before 11pm and slept alone!

[Pippi]

Hi, Very new to this, so here goes. I have a dd who is 3yrs 4 months old. Since day one we have had heaps of problems with her in regards to her health with colic, reflux, took ages for this to be picked up and medication given. Child would just cry all the time day/night. Never got into a sleep pattern at all. We had to have help with this as we were so tired day/night, just couldn't cope with it all. My daughter and I went into a hospital to have some help with this, spent over two months working on this problem, had nurses putting her down to sleep and doing the controlled crying with her (just to let u know dd was about 6 months old when we started this, my partner and I had also tried at home, but dd went for over 6 hours first night non stop screaming the house down....I could not cope with the screaming, she would not give up, very strong willed) six weeks into this and they the specialists/nurses were blown away with this child and too didn't think she ever would get into a routine. It was so hard to listen to your child screaming night after night, week after week etc. She did get a wee bit better but then it all would just go out the window and back again to the start. DD they didn't have any answers for really, she was put in the hard pile, said they have only ever had one other child through there like her. We then went onto sleeping drugs, but that didn't work, then dd at around 18months started to have seizures, the stop breathing turning blue etc just blow me away, got to the stage that she would sleep in the bed with us, so I could keep a eye on her, as well as we all could get some sleep. So really from then it went on to sharing a bed with her, she did have a cot of her own and a bedroom at the early stages. So over all trying not to make this too long. DD still sleeps with me, won't or can't go to sleep on her owe or at a reasonable hour (like she is still full on at 11.00pm at night)will only sleep when I go to bed and if I try going earlier which I have done for a good length of time, she is out the bed full on, no way going to sleep at this hour...like 8.30- 9.00pm. If I was to put her in her own room, own bed on her own I know she will scream the house down for days/weeks probably years........and this is something I can't handle, she also likes me to rub her back to help relax her off to sleep, and needs to have her body contact with me close, I mean here like her legs over me, so she knows I am there, otherwise she will wake up..... any suggest....

Hi bunny2

Sorry to here you have had a bad night. How did last night go for you? Wouldn't it be lovely to have an evening to yourself, with children asleep in bed, I just won't know what to do!

Keep us posted on how things are going.

Hi Ghosty

Once dd can finally fall asleep most of the time she can go right through, which is great as this was a probably also before......so I am pleased about that for sure. Do you know where abouts I can get that sleep book from you mentioned?

The way we are going she will never make it to morning kindy which at the current one she is at will start that in about October/November I am not looking forward to that at all, it will be a nightmare to get there and if still by 5 she is like this again she will never make it to school on time.....she isn't the best child to get ready in the mornings so to say this but there are a few problems there...gosh! you all will be thinking what kind of mother am I for sure now. Well just to comment further on that its the hair brushing/facing washing its another nightmare.
Having a time frame sounds a very good idea.....I guess I am looking at it from a negative side as knowing how my dd is......I really don't know how long these problems with take to iron out, she has had them for sure a long long time now and how much energy I have for them all. But I do really truely want my daughter to sleep in her own room and bed at a lovely early time of like 7.30pm would be wonderful!!!

Hi

Just me again. Is the book called 'Late Sleep Phase' by Richard Ferber or is it 'Solve your Child's Sleep Problem' by Richard Ferber

Thanks

It is called 'Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems' by Richard Ferber and has a section on Sleep phases, 'Early' (when a child can't stay awake until a reasonable time ... like will fall asleep at 4pm and will wake up really early, like 4am ... ready to rock and roll) and 'Late' when a child won't go to sleep before 10pm or 11pm but struggles to wake up before 9am. I found it really interesting ... at the time I thought DS had an Early Sleep phase ... Unfortunately I now think that he is actually one of these people needs less sleep than others ... just like his dad!

Ds was in bed at 8.00 last night, I was so pleased to have an evening free but I promptly fell asleep on the sofa and woke up at midnight. Ds slept till 7 this morning. I shall do all I can to stop him falling asleep in the day time. HOw do others keep their child awake till bed time?

Well done bunny2! At least you know he can do it. My only tips for not-going-to-sleep-during-the-day range from the completely impractical to the not very sensible. The impractical ones are not going out in the car or pushchair so as not to induce sleep (at least while they get into a rountine of not sleeping during the day), and the not very sensible suggestion is some chocolate buttons and a game as soon as they start to look really dopey. It always worked a treat with my ds, and actually his teeth are fine (at 8) so no real harm done.
Pippi, I thought you'd have tried everything like mattresses. It sounds horribly as though you might have to wait for her to grow out of it, and you must be on the home strait by now!

Hi Tatum, Thanks for the ideas. I have tried similar methods - sweets, prodding, games, tickling etc. With loads of effort I can keep ds awake only to have him fall asleep the minute I do something else. I have also tried keeping him home after lunch to avoid those sleep-inducing journeys, plays havoc with our social life but helps keep him awake. Thing is, as soon as I relax this regime he is back to falling asleep again. My mother insists he must still need a daytime nap - fine for her, she is not there at 11 pm every night entertaining him!

bunny2 - could you let him have say half an hour nap and wake him up from it? or would he be awful?
pippi - not sure what time your dd wakes up but you said she was awful in the morning and that you needed to get her up earlier for kindy in the Oct. Just a thought that perhaps the time when she's getting up is in a bad part of her sleep cycle when she's going to be grumpy. If you wake her up earlier you might get her in a "light sleep" phase rather than a "deep sleep" phase and this should make her a bit less grumpy (maybe ) Maybe try waking her up half an hour earlier each day until you find a "good time".
Also, if you manage to get her up earlier she might go to bed earlier.
Clutching at straws here but you're having such a tough time that I figured useless help was better than no help at all!
Thinking of you.

Hi Pippi,
Just read your message of 21/4 and smiled. Seemed like yesterday, you could be describing my life when my DD was around 3. Playgroup played a good part in tiring her out. Think she thought she couldn't go to sleep without me. Other half used to call me "mummy dummy" which looking back is true. With my little one have got him at 2 1/2 to realise by shutting door tight etc that at 7 o'clock is mummy's time and his bed time. Life is so good as have evening but even he still finds me in the night!!!
If you are to tired to be a good mum during the day not good for either of you.Maybe have one evening where you go out with some friends once a week and leave other half to cope. I found it hard because I was a mum 24-7 and never got to be partner or me!
Hope my waffle helps!

Hi Britaboard

Well I read the book that some people here said might be of help to me, with the late sleep phase that my DD has. So I worked on this well over a month and I was going to bed with her at 8.30pm, still would take her quite a while to settle down and finally go off to sleep (11pm then go down to 10.30pm or 10.00pm) I would think this is good, habbits changing then all of a sudden the next night we would go back up to 11.00pm before she would fall off to sleep. Meanwhile up until this time, I would get her singing, talking, in and out the bed, jumping on the bed etc. I just don't know what else to try and as for dd ever being able to sleep on her own in her own bed, gosh! I really don't know when this will happen. So that is the lastest update on this major sleeping problem I have with my dd.

Oh Pippi ... poor you ... I do feel for you.
At least though you can see that your dd is in a 'late' sleep phase and that you were making progress.
Part of me is thinking that your dd is staying up so late and not going to sleep BECAUSE she has an audience (namely you). But the only solution to that is to leave her to it but you have tried hard to do that and can't bear the screaming.
I don't know what else to suggest.
When was the last time you discussed this with the doctor?

Hi Ghosty

The last time would of been a while ago when we were at the doctors, but she knows what we have already been through and what we have tried, as well as how very strong will my dd is and what she is capable of. She did suggest seeing mental health but I didn't want that as we had already been involved in that area before, and it didn't work. They were of no help and they were lost for words with dd and how strong willed she was. I think they are all just lost for words and think that when dd is ready to go to sleep on her own and in her own room/bed it will be when she is ready to do this. So yeah, not a lot more I can say.

Thanks for your message.

Hi Pippi

Just thought it might be some consolation to let you know that I slept with my mum & dad till I was 4yrs old. My mum said that after 4 there seemed to be some major developments in understanding and eventually she managed to bribe me to sleep in my own bed by telling me every night that if I slept in my own bed I'd have a treat the next day and if I slept in my own bed for 5 nights I'd get a barbie outfit (or similar) on a Saturday. Your dd is a bit young still for this kind of approach but maybe as she gets older it will work for you?

The way my mum managed was to have a bed in my room and then at about 2am when I was fast asleep she'd go in there and sleep and leave me with my dad (who, like your partner, didn't mind co-sleeping at all). I loved sharing a bed with my parents till I was about 10 but my mum ended up with a strict weekend-only rule, which meant I knew I would have some time in their bed but it was a real treat for Sat/Sun mornings.

Don't know if you explored the Cranial Osteopath option but my little cousin, aged 10, is currently having some CO as he's very nervy and highly strung and it seems to be working wonders so is definitely worth a try. Both my DDs had CO for their severe colic and i really think it works. Try to find someone who specializes in children.

I think it's worth dropping the diet coke habit. Some people react so badly to caffeine - if i have a coffee or coke I get the shakes and I can't even take anadin because they have added caffeine. My brother was hyperactive and made much worst by sugary drinks. Don't supposed your dd would drink camomile tea? It's supposed to be really soothing. Alternatively what about hot chocolate in the evening - milk is supposed to have something soothing in it.

I hope you feel a bit better having shared your problem with everyone on mumsnet. And I really hope that things get a bit better soon...

I really think it would help to wake your dd up much earlier. If she's waking at 9 or 10am then she just won't be tired until late - neither would I. I think you will find it much less brutal to wake her at 7am than to let her cry at night when she isn't tired. I honestly think the morning wake is the place to start with this. Also cut out the coke, it's really not good for little children (or anyone IMO!) but is full of sugar and caffeine that will keep her awake. She won't go to sleep earlier the minute you start the 7am wake but over a week or so her body clock should adjust. And it's worth doing this now, as you will eventually have to do it for school anyway.