Can someone tell me what I'm missing?

[BrokenliSpears]

I think I've thought of everything, but in my sleep deprived state it's possible I've overlooked something obvious.

He is warm enough.
...but not too warm.
He has plenty of solids during the day.
He is clean.
...and dry.
He has wound down as every evening.
He has had a biiiiig breastfeed before sleep.
There are no particular disturbances overnight.
He is teething a bit and I've given him Calpol accordingly.

Why won't he sleep?

On a good night he wakes up every 2 hours for a feed, plus one extra feed, plus usually spends an hour awake at some point.
(So a typical night would mean feed at 8.00, 10.00, 12.00, 1.00, 2.00, 4.00 awake until 5.00 at which point my 2-year-old gets up and the baby will doze a bit, get up for breakfast and then have an hour's nap before 9.00).

On Friday night he woke 9 times. NINE!

What am I missing?

He's 6 months.

huge hugs
I dont think your missing anything

I have come to the conclusion that some children just take years to settle into what we feel in a 'normal' sleep pattern

dd2 was 3 before she did and gecko still wakes at least 3 times a night

the best of it it that they are only 2 years apart so I was up with both of them for about a year

did I say [yawn]

Any chance of him coming into bed with you so you don't get disturbed quite so much ?

Is it because he associates going to sleep with a bf and then a full tummy, hence every time he comes into very light sleep he wants to bf & a full tummy to go back to sleep.

I think I would try and cut down on the night feeds to up his feeding in the day. I think milk gives them far more calories than food at this age so giving lots of solids won't make much of a difference.

3? 3???

Not learned anything, no. Pretty much his only trick is constant waking .

He is in bed with me. Have tried putting him in a cit, but less successful.

sorry I shouldn't have said lol

BUT I propbably have a hand in screwing them up in the sleep department as I co sleep, bf on demand and will never do cc as I dont agree with it

Cit? Cot.

Cargirl, yes, I think sleep = breastfeeding for him. He is also unable to settle without being fed to sleep. I don't mind that at all, but I wish he would sleep for longer chunks between settling. Hadn't considered that he needs a full tummy to be asleep. Is that likely?

I do bf him a lot during the day. He's only been weaned for 3 weeks or so, and is still bf on demand. Sometimes I think there's too much going on in the daytime for him to concentrate for long enough for a long bf though.

Do you actually feed him to sleep, can you start by making sure he is awake before you put him down to go to sleep? If you feed him to sleep then that is why he is waking so often because he is using you like a dummy to comfort himself to sleep.

I don't do CC but have found PUPD very gentle & effective, although I did this on much younger babies.

Thing is, I co slept, bf'd on demand and wouldn't do cc with dd either and we never got in this pickle. I understand that this approach means I will be more involved in my children's sleep for longer than if I put them in their own room or did cc or took steps to 'solve' things once and for all, and I'm happy with that. I don't mind him having to bf to sleep. I definitely don't mind night feeds at 6 months - I think it's normal and healthy not to go through the night at this stage.

I just wish I could help him to stay asleep for longer than an hour or so. Max 2 hours, often no longer than 20 minutes. He's very cheerful on it - definitely not an overtired, whingey baby. I, however, am an overtired, whingey mummy.

Something is waking him.
Cargirl's not full tummy theory?
Habit?
Teeth?
An evil sprite with a grudge against me?

It's probably not a good habit, but it works for us and I don't know how to change it without involving tears:... my bf, co-sleeping dd (nearly 24 wks) is bounced to sleep by me, in our moby wrap, every night. I then get into bed, at at the first 'wriggle' from her, I whip her out of it, lie her beside me - still asleep - and pop her on the boob. She sucks a bit, then usually pops off within 10-20 mins. She then stays asleep all night, only stirring to feed (she doesn't even open her eyes) throughout the night. That's broken the 'feeding to sleep' pattern without us even noticing, IYSWIM. Would something like that work for you?

I'd say habit!! Some dc need more props to get to sleep than others. I would just gently wake him after he falls asleep on the boob so he learns to fall asleep without it IYSWIM.

Had a very similar time with my DD2 as we coslept and she fed on and off all night. I came to the conclusion that she was actually getting most of her milk at night because in the day it was often too distracting for her to settle and feed properly. As she got older I noticed that she wouldnt take breakfast as she was so full of milk. In the end things got better when I stopped bf at 12 months.

I also felt she was using me as a human dummy, she went on to feed when she stirred, fed a few minutes and then went back to sleep. I was so zombified by this that I found it very hard to do anything about it. Would patting rather than feeding work? Or perhaps waking him properly so he had a bigger feed and then hoping he went off for longer? I have huge sympathy, I had no willpower in the night and just sticking a boob in was the easiest option.

You might be right about teeth, could you speculatively calpol to see if it helps, or teeth gel?

Not being much use I'm afraid. It gets better. I get up now for DD2 usually twice a night, and for DD1 never, unless she is ill, unthinkable 18months ago. I expect as he takes more food in the day he will cut back at night, as he gets more active he will be more tired. As he gets older you might feel better about cutting down on night feeds.

Good luck.

Not sure about the human dummy theory. Surely the rubber and plastic things you buy in the chemists are synthetic nipples? I think that suckling and feeding for comfort at 6 months is a valid and healthy way to get reassurance and be settled.

Thinking about it though, I do think that ds is getting most of his milk overnight. There's just so much going on during the day. Also, he likes to be fed lying down, so if we're out and about he'll feed enough to not feel hungry or thirsty any more but won't settle down for a great long feed. Maybe I really need to feed him more during the day - but then he falls asleep more during the day because boob = snooze!!

I absolutely relate to being too zombified to do anything useful in the night other than boob and sleep.

Thinking back, dd went quite naturally from always feeding to sleep, to falling asleep by herself after a feed, at about 14 months.

you may need to address the pain issue a bit more. having a sore gum in the day is ok with distractions but at night its much worse. try some nurofen before bed. also try to get them to sleep without feeding. stop when very drowsy and then sush pat the rest of the way. if you can manage to stay awake until he is due to wake again see if you can get him back to sleep with just shush pat.

I am a bit mean with the calpol. He has this 2 big front teeth pushing through at the moment so maybe I could give him a little more. Last night I did give him 2.5ml at bedtime and 2.5ml halfway through the night. He was better than the night before I think.

comfort sucking is natural & good for them (well apart from jaw development but that's another thread!) I agree but I think that is part of the reason he is waking, it depends whether you are happy to continue as you are or not.

Perhaps I conscious decision to seek out quiet places to feed him during the day for a week or so and try and limit milk in the night to shift his eating to daytime, and up the calpol as a temporary measure?

Hi BrokenliSpears. We went through a similar phase when DS was 6 months. I am all for demand-feeding, have no problem if he comfort sucks etc, BUT I was hitting MY limits (He woke every 45 min, I am working FT). I night-weaned him from midnight to 5am. If he woke up during that time DH would carry him around until he was ready to be put down again. It was a mild form of PUPD, but: although he was carried, he cried. He sleep greatly improved and he even slept through for a few nights. I minded less (than any other method) because I knew that DS was lovingly looked after.

You were up early Glimmer!

Drafting in DH to help isn't an option for me as I'm on my own. I think that is a lot of the problem - I'd be coping better if I could have an hour off once in a while.

Quick question, how does he nap, and what time does he go to bed? DD (8 months) has started sleeping much better after I started putting her to bed earlier - it can be at 5pm sometimes! She also has two long naps during the day, in her cot so she is not disturbed. It sounds strange but she sleeps longer if she goes to bed earlier!

BrokenliSpears - hugest empathy/sympathy, especially to be on your own. Nothing to add that might help really, except to say my nearly 8mo DD has also given up on night sleep. Not that sleep has ever been a popular activity for her, but she did only wake up about twice a night to feed for a blissful week at about 5 months. Then from 6 months we suddenly had a new exciting let's-wake-every-hour phase. Brilliant. She is demand bf, started blw at 6 months. Not sure if the (miniscule) amounts of solids made things different, or starting to roam around more, or just hey why not. She still wakes every two hours, also can't really find the energy to do anything other than stick her on and hope for her to go back to sleep again. She is rubbish at day time naps too. Am finding some of the NCSS tips useful, but to be honest I have decided it is mainly personality and therefore the most effective approach is looking on it as an exciting challenge and eating vast amounts of cake and chocolate to assist in getting through each foggy day. Helpful, no? I was like it too apparently - obviously someone is out to get revenge on me for my non-sleeping as a baby...

AvonBarksdale - I am v jealous. I am sure daytime naps good = night time sleep better, but just cannot seem to get DD to sleep anything longer than 40 minutes at the mo. Earlier bedtime doesn't seem to make any difference with the frequency of waking. Oh dear, I'll just go back to eating my morning cake and blaming personality type..

DS, also 6 months has started sleeping much better since last Saturday, we started BLW, and moved him to his own room (has always been in his own cot, but quite close to me).
I give Nurofen for the teething, as it lasts longer, and we have got a pretty good night nappy going now.
Because I can't fall asleep with him on my knee safely now, as I am sitting on a chair, I pop him off the nipple sooner than I used to, which is one of the NCSS techniques. Oh and we got cot blocks last week to raise his head. And he's in a long-sleeve vest and 2.5tog bag.
Don't know if any of that will help you, might help someone else, but there is always hope! DS was waking between 5-10 times a night four weeks ago, and he did a 7-hour stretch last night. And it's probably got nothing at all to do with anything I've done!
Best of luck!

xx

Hiya. Bit of a late entry on this one but haven't been on mumsnet for a few days....just to let you know that my DS is the same age and his sleeping has also gone to pot recently. he used to be a good sleeper and just wake once or twice in a 13 hour night, however recently he's taken to waking up for 2 hours in the night and I can't figure out why. The Wonder Weeks book (very trusty friend of mine and many others) shows that there is a massive developmental leap at 26 weeks which can make sleep hard for them. I think someone else mentioned this but the development doesn't have to be physical, it can be a baby making mental developments too (unfortunately, we can't really see these!). I know this information doesn't solve your problem, but it's kind of given me hope that once this development stage is over, things may calm down a bit in the sleep department. For now, I know my DS isn't hungry so I'm just feeding him watered down milk during the night so he doesn't get all his nutritional needs at night and will feed well during the day. At 5 months I had to switch from BF to bottle feeding as DS was too distracted to BF anymore....if you don't mind using a bottle and you don't think DS is genuinely hungry during the night, could you use watered down expressed milk to feed him?

Just some ideas. Good luck, and when you're awake during the night, rest assured that I probably will be too!

A thread for yawning and griping, and sharing sympathy and ideas on

Congratulations, you have a perfectly normal 6 month old.

Lots of solids for a 6 month old could actually be contributing to hunger as unless the poo is coming out solid (as in logs), it's not being digested so is just taking up room that v. easily digested milk would be taking up. However...

It's far more likely that you have a baby whose sleep is severely affected by development. Brace yourself. My DS went from waking twice a night at 5.5 months to every half hour, then every hour, where he stayed for MONTHS. By 14 months he was down to 4 times a night, then molars started around 16 months, and now on a good night at 21 months he wakes up twice. I just kept telling myself "Okay, that growth spurt's out of the way, he'll sleep now." Then "Okay, he's crawling and pulling up, he'll sleep now." "Okay, he's nearly walking, he'll sleep when he's walking." "Okay, he's started talking, he'll sleep now."