How can I help 4 month DD fall alseep by herself?

[Jun]

Hello I'm new here and would really like some advice.

My 4 month old DD has always fallen asleep on us either being fed or held and then put into bed asleep

We really want to help her fall alseep by herself but not sure how to achieve this. Last night we tried to pat and shush her in the cot but after about 45 mins of this she was so upset even cuddling couldn't calm her and I had to feed her.

I would be realy grateful for any help.....Thanks!

[TettyLouBar]

Just re-read my post and caught up with whats been said since.... sorry if I came across a bit smug, thats not what I intended at all.
I think there is definately an element of luck with whether your baby will settle alone, no matter HOW much shushing and patting and gradual changes you make. I think I'm just lucky. IMO, I consider it to be a luxury that she can do this. But for those ladies who do BF your LO's to sleep, whether its by choice, or because its the only way, well thats just as good in my opinion. I used to do this too and I think it was by accident that DD started to lie in her cot without kicking off completely and eventually fall asleep.

I agree with mookickkick, every baby is different, there's only so much the books can recommend and advise.

[Wispabarsareback]

I think there's an unbridgeable divide between parents who think that babies can happily learn to fall asleep on their own (without having to resort to CC), and parents who are convinced that their babies will be permanently traumatised by being left alone in their cots to let them fall asleep naturally. I guess it's the same as the various other unbridgeable divides in parenting - we can go backwards and forwards endlessly, but people have their own views about 'how babies are' and most of us don't change our views. I know I don't!

[Jun]

Thanks for all the replies guys, great to read them all.

To give a bit more background: as DD has now started to wake each time we have tried to put her down to sleep it has made for some very traumatic evenings for both us and her. She gets very upset each time she wakes up being put in her cot and gets progressively more cranky and may not go off to sleep properly until midnight.

Hence I thought maybe it was time to try and teach her to fall alseep by herself, though if the past 2 nights are anything to go by I am not sure I can cope with it.

Tonight after her feed she was happy anough with the patting and shushing in her cot for quite some time but then she got upset so I picked her up to calm her and it had the opposite effect. After cuddling her for about 25 mins whilst she cried and cried I asked my OH to take over and for about 40 mins he has been in with her and from the intermittent cries I can say he is not having much luck either.

I do like the sound of mookickkick's method.

OH wants to pursue with this course of action and thinks that she will cry each time like this until she gets the hang of it. But tbh I can't bear it and just want to soothe her. Perhaps I will show him this thread and try pat/shhh and breast approach.

[UmMwahahahaaaaa]

(My dd never got on with the Baby whisperer type pick up then immediately put back down. Just got more and more upset. Maybe I did it wrong. This time - albeit easier because well, he is my second - I am treating him more like he is my baby who I am trying to put down to bed, no techniques here. However, IMO parenting is about experimenting and learning what works best for your child. Obviously read and take advice but do what feels right.)

[Jun]

I just tried to say to OH we should stop and rethink what we are doing but he wants to carry on with shh and pat approach. Said he couldn't do it without my support. Apparently she did go off to sleep at some point but the woke up again.

It's such an emotive issue isn't it?

It has all gone quiet in there so hopefully there has been some progress. I just hope that all that crying won't harm her somehow.

I guess I won't be showing him this thread now (will just tell him).

[UmMwahahahaaaaa]

It's hard. Dh and I had so many rows about our differing tolerance levels on how much grizzling/crying we could take (it does get better, honest). No, a couple of nights of crying with her Daddy won't have hurt her but you and dh need to agree - and if it upsets you, then maybe it isn''t the right approach.

For me and dh, he has to accept that I am the Mummy, and its my boobs that go crazy when ds cries and so therefore it's my call .

Big hugs to you though, there really isn't a right answer, just when you think you have it cracked they change, and all i can say is that in a year or so, you will barely remember this bit.

[UmMwahahahaaaaa]

PS I have always been a fan of the 'take a couple of days off and do the easy option' when it got too hard. Try to get the No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley - it's v reassuring. You could even try and get dh to read it

[Nat1H]

I used to play a Russell Watson CD to my LO!! Worked a treat every time.
My 2nd child was a bit more tricky though, and I ended up buying a slumber bear when he was about 5 months old. This was an absolute life saver!! {grin}

[Becky77]

Ooooh I havent heard of slumber bears until now! They look great... I like the fact it reactivates if your baby starts to cry I dont think my DD really needs one but if her sleep were to go pear shaped I'd condider getting one... Does it still work once they're over a couple of months if they're not used to it?

[GreenMonkies]

Why should she be able to settle herself off to sleep?

At this age she should still be sleeping with you, not alone in a cot away from you. The advice on having your baby sleeping with you does not just relate to night time when you are in bed. My DD's both slept either on my lap or in a reclining bouncey chair in the livingroom with us until we went to bed. They didn't start "going to bed" alone in a room (even though it was still our bedroom!) until they were about 9 months old!

There is nothing natural or normal about babies falling asleep by them selves, self soothing is a bit of a new concept, and not, IMO a good one.

Also, at this age she will still be having growth spurts and cluster feeding in the evening, so will probably want to feed on and off until around 9pm, so really it makes sense to keep her in with you rather than putting her in her cot and either leaving her to cry or going back and forth to her when she wakes.

She instinctively needs to be with you, as far as she is concerned being patted a shushed in a cot is not close enough. She needs to be in your arms to feel secure. She is not being naughty and manipulative, and you are not spoiling her or making a rod for your back, you are just meeting her needs. She is so tiny still, take this time to connect with her, nurture her, don't try to train her into conforming with an artificial western ideal of baby behaviour.

Put away the Gn F*rd book, ignore Super Nanny, and read The Continuum Concept, Creative Parenting, or Attachment Parenting and embrace the way she needs you and enjoy being with her, don't feel you have to put her in a cage in an isolation cell a seperate room!

[UmMwahahahaaaaa]

Oh, tell you what, I swaddle ds as he can't quite keep his hands still to suck. But then, I don't know if he will still need it by 4 months. I didn't swaddle dd but she had flailing arms and legs that stopped her sleeping for ages, so wish I had!

[UmMwahahahaaaaa]

Greenmonkies, I consider myself very much an Attachment Parent. Thanks for the reminder!!(I always used to call her cot the prison... felt much happier when we put her in a bed. Ds has the v comfy hammock thing)

[NotAnOtter]

i think the advice on here is generally good

as for it being UNNATURAL for a baby to go to sleep on its own - how bizarre??

my ds is just three months and normally goes to be just tired - on the edge of sleep

if i were taken ill tomorrow he would miss my breast but would still go to sleep.

do we have to be joined at the hip to our babies till they are 7 for it to be 'natural'

[peachsmuggler]

Jun - your situation does sound a bit like ours was.

the thing I liked about pick up/put down was that as soon as she started crying, I was able to pick her up and soothe her. I still feed her to sleep (or almost to sleep) and I never leave her crying in her cot, but we don't have to lower her into the cot, like an unexploded mine anymore. It really has made all the difference.

It sounds like you don't necessarily want her to get herself to sleep, but you want to be able to put her down without her crying and so that she at least stays asleep for a few hours between feeds. That was pretty much all we were loking for and we now have it.

As someone else sais though, some babies just get frustrated/angry with PU/PD. It's all about judging your baby's temperament I guess.

[GreenMonkies]

NotAnOtter

No, not joined at the hip til they are 7, but there is nothing wrong with allowing a baby to sleep in your arms etc, and nothing natural about putting it in a seperate room and leaving it alone.

I go to work, my children to go to nursery and school, we are not constantly together, but I don't expect them to lie in a dark room alone and go to sleep by themselves.

[NotAnOtter]

put a phd after my name green monkeys and i will write a book saying it is perfectly natural

conversely why dont you have 18 children and forage for food

[Jun]

Greenmonkies I appreciate you taking the time to reply and what you say has merits but I feel I have to respond

I have not said at any point that I think my daughter is being naughty and manipulative, I know she cries because she is tired.

I know her well enough to know her growth spurts. There has been no Gina Ford routine, she has been fed on demand and has settled into her own pattern of feeding.

You are obviously passionate about your beliefs but I think you have made quite a few assumptions about mine.

[pudding25]

greenmonkies* yet again, you try and shove your attachment parenting views on everyone like there is no other option and everyone who does not do attachment parenting is a bad parent. It drives me mad. You know what, I am the most loving parent with the most beautiful, happy and content little 5 mth old baby who happily falls asleep in her own cot in her own room and sleeps all night.
If I had done all the things you say are a must, I would be a nervous wreck and would not slept at all for the past 5 mths.

Everyone is entitled to do things the way they want to so quit the bloody preaching.

[pudding25]

jun If you do want her to self settle, then instead of pupd which can be very stimulating, what you can do is sit with her, stroking her head, hand on chest for a few mins, leave her for a few mins then go back in. I reckon she cried for so long because a) she was angry that something she was used to was being changed and b) she became overtired. Give it a couple of nights and she will self settle and become a better sleeper which will make her happier.

[Lionstar]

Probably has been suggested already, but we found when tiny DD was happier to settle by herself if she had something with Mummy-smell on in with her. So a muslin, a breast pad, an old T-shirt and later a purpose made 'Cuski' toy - which she still sleeps with now. Also a warm bed was better than the 'shock' of being put on cold sheets after a warm cuddle.

[Wispabarsareback]

Several people have put their finger on it - babies are often crying when they're put down because they are tired and they just need to be allowed to go to sleep. There's a world of difference between a tired, going-off-to-sleep whinge and a full-on scream. Helping a baby feel secure enough to go to sleep in its own bed has to be a good thing - as I said earlier, I really think people project their own fears and anxieties onto their babies, when really all tired babies want (after they've been fed of course) is to wind down and go to sleep!

[NotAnOtter]

pudding25 aaaaahhhh thankyou for that lovely breath of fresh fresh air

[GreenMonkies]

I don't know where this "self settle" thing comes from, and why an one thinks it is ever ok to leave a baby, especially one so young, to cry at all.

Yes, I am passionate about "my" beliefs. Beliefs which are held by many real baby/childcare/human behaviour experts like Shiela Kitzinger, Desmond Morris, Mirriam Stoppard.

Jun I was not making assumptions about you, but I do know what well meaning HV's, friends and relatives etc will tell you, "don't go to her if she cries", "you'll spoil her" and of course "you're making a rod for your back" and my personal favourite "it won't harm her to cry". These statements all assume that we should be controlling our babies, rather than meeting thier needs and giving them the contact and security that they need. By the sound of it you have been doing everything absolutely right, and she is a happy, secure baby as a result, it's just a shame you are now trying to teach her to do something which goes completely against her nature and both of your instincts, and which is utterly unneccessary. She will learn to go to sleep on her own in time, but 4 months is way too early to expect it. Anything which she learns which involves her crying, even if you are patting and shushing her, is surely a lesson that she is too young to learn? Both my girls will go to sleep alone, DD1 (aged 5) will go to sleep after a story, I do stay with her because I love watching her fall asleep, and feeling her body relax as she nods off, and she sleeps all night in her own bed unless there is something wrong (she is not well etc). DD2 (aged 2) is generally nursed to sleep, but so was her sister at this age, so I am not stressed about it. She, like her sister, will come to it in her own time, there's no rush. What is a few years out of a lifetime? Can't we give our babies that?

NotAnOtter do be quiet, you are being childish, silly, agressively defensive (which infers you know I'm right really) and ridiculous. If you have nothing constructive to say, do yourself a favour and say nothing.

[umberellascankill]

haven't read thread

our dd was always fed to sleep - started putting her down just before she had completely 'gone' and this has worked extremely well for us. she's 10mo now and we don't get any crying at bed/nap times. when we walk into her room with her she just pops her thumb in her mouth and lays her head on our shoulder because she knows it's time for a snooze.

We didn't left her to cry when we first started this, always went in and just gave her more cuddles before lying her down sleepy again.

[umberellascankill]

ok, have read the thread now. you have come across as a bit rude and judgemental greenmonkies. shame because some of what you have to say is interesting, it just gets a bit lost in the sanctimony.