How can I help 4 month DD fall alseep by herself?

[Jun]

Hello I'm new here and would really like some advice.

My 4 month old DD has always fallen asleep on us either being fed or held and then put into bed asleep

We really want to help her fall alseep by herself but not sure how to achieve this. Last night we tried to pat and shush her in the cot but after about 45 mins of this she was so upset even cuddling couldn't calm her and I had to feed her.

I would be realy grateful for any help.....Thanks!

[sandcastles]

And dd prefers it light sometimes while she drifts off. She likes to look at her hands! So more often than not, the curtains are open or the light is on, but dimmed.

You could try putting her to bed wide awake & talking to her & reading to her. I also stroke dd2 head as she likes that too. They eventually become sleepy & you can introduce ways to help her settle.

But saying that, there is nothing wrong with cuddling her to sleep, or feeding. So don't be about that! As I said dd1 had that for almost 5 months & still settled pretty well one we changed her routine.

[sandcastles]

Yes she does. Even if she doesn't seem to be ready when she goes in, she will be content enough to fall asleep after a while. On the occasions she doesn't sleep while I am pottering, she is mostly happy to look around & be chatted to.

Also, dh put her in there on Sunday to tidy up while I was out, I came home literally 10 mins after he put her down, went to get her & she was alseep!

[Jun]

She's happy to be in her cot if she has her mobile on or I am nearby, so yes she does go in.

Are you saying sandcastles that your daughter has fallen asleep in her cot this way?

Perhaps my DD will do so at some point.....

[sandcastles]

Jun, do you put your dd in her cot at times when she is not expected to sleep? That's what I do with dd2.

She plays in her cot if I have stuff to do in my room. So I now always make a point of sorting my washing in my room, while she is in her bassinet, gurgling away & I am talking to her while I sort washing. Or while doing the ironing. This is how I found out that she sleeps better after self settling.

[LadySanders]

don't know if this helps but am quite surprised at all the posters who think that cuddling a baby to sleep means you will have to cuddle the child to sleep until they're teenagers....

i never left ds1 to cry, always fed him to sleep while b/feeding, then later as a toddler he would fall asleep after drinking bottle of milk in bed. he's now 7 and we've never had a single problem with his sleep. he goes to bed, listens to a cd for a bit, goes to sleep, which has been the routine for the last 5 years or so.

[sandcastles]

"By the sound of it you have been doing everything absolutely right, and she is a happy, secure baby as a result, it's just a shame you are now trying to teach her to do something which goes completely against her nature and both of your instincts, and which is utterly unneccessary"

So are you saying, greenmonkies, that a baby can only be happy & secure if held to sleep & not left to self settle? Because that is what it sounds like!

Dd1 [5] always slept on us as a young baby. She was our only child & we had all the time in the world to hold her after feed/bath etc. Putting her down once she was sleeping deeply, or sometimes just holding her until her next feed.

Dd2 [15 weeks] will be held, but no matter how deeply asleep she is, as soon as we put her down, she wakes. Whether held for 5 minutes or an hour! So, she goes to bed awake, mostly half asleep, but deff awake to some degree. I sit on my bed, next to her bassinet with dd1 in our bed & I read to them both. Dd2 has slept 7-7 [or 6-6, or 8-8 depending on our day] from 7 weeks.

They are both as happy and secure as each other & dd2 is certainly no less happy/secure than dd1 was at that age.

And I don't see what is wrong with expecting a 5yr old to got to sleep by themselves. Dd will have a story & chat to herself & fall asleep happily. My girls mean the world to me, but I cannot sit with them, at 5 yrs until they fall asleep...to me, that it just too dependant.

[Jun]

Hi peachsmuggler

She did drop off aout 9.00 but then woke up 15 mins later and was very upset even though I was cuddling her. So I ended up feeding her and held her until she was sound asleep when I placed her in the cot.

Not sure what to take from this....I might give her the opportunity to fall asleep in her cot after the last feed and then feed her or rock her if she gets upset.

Either way this thread has been useful as had made me realise all babies are different and I have to find a method that works for us.

[Wispabarsareback]

Mookickkick - agree with every word!

[mookickkick]

i have to add that i never let DD cry without picking her up. also, i lie next to her as she falls asleep and she cheerfully coos and smiles until she winds down by herself. seems to me to be perfectly natural for a well-adjusted and healthy baby who feels secure in her surroundings. moreover, once she is asleep i can get on with other things, like feeding myself or having a nice bath .

that's the way it works for us, though i appreciate that our method won't suit everyone. but jun asked for advice on how to self-settle, so that is what the rest of us self-settling types have responded to. telling her it is not realistic, greenmonkey, is just counter-productive. and then to suggest that we are imprisoning them in a cold and dark room suggests to me that you have issues, not us.

[peachsmuggler]

How did it go last night Jun?

[pudding25]

greenmonkies you are sanctimonious, rude and unhelpful.

FWIW, I never shut dd in a room and leave her to cry and cry. I have only ever left her for a fw mins on her own when I knew she was tired and needed to sleep before checking on her. However, that is besides the point.

As I have already said, your views are great, if that is what you want to do. It does not mean that a baby self-settling is wrong. Quite frankly, everyone I know who have babies who self settle (through some help and routine) have very happy children and happy parents.

As I have already proven to you on another thread, there are many repoerts out there, contradicting what you say too.

And there are many a thread on mn from people who have 'attachement parented' their child, asking for help as their child is 1/2/3 yrs old and up every hr at night. Everyone is miserable, the family is breaking down etc etc.

You are entitled to do what you believe in, but don't come on threads like this preaching. It drives me mad. I would never dream of going on some co-sleeping thread telling them I think they are totally wrong.

If you want to nurse a 2 yr old to sleep, fine but lots of people certainly do not.

[TettyLouBar]

Greenmonkies: The OP didn't say anything about "expecting" her 4 month old to fall asleep alone, she just asked how she might achieve it.
Surely the very fact that other people like myself, have had the experience of a baby that can self settle at 4/5 months old will prompt other parents to want to try and achieve this?
whats the harm in having a go, and seeing of your baby is ready (like some are) as long as your not allowing them to cry endlessly?

[Jun]

Also Peachsmuggler I love the unexploded mine analogy

[Jun]

Yet again Green monkies you are making assumptions. Nowhere have I said DD has been left to cry. We pick her up when she gets upset and because she is very tired by this point she takes a while to calm down despite being held. Though why I am explaining myself to you I don't know.

I did think that self settling was a valid goal (and as there are so many people on here with healthy happy babies who can go to sleep by themselves I still think it is) but many of the replies here have made me realise it does not matter if this is not something we have achieved as yet. There is nothing like realising you are not the only one to give you a different perspective.

I don't think jumping to the extreme and talking about leaving a baby to cry is particularly helpful and has nothing to do with the original question.

[Minkus]

NotAnOtter you do make me laugh..."forage for food" fnar fnar

[UmMwahahahaaaaa]

Greenmonkies, I agree with a lot of what you say - I personally would never leave my baby to cry, and agree there is no rush. However, I think your tone isn't overly helpful. I am a happy attachment parent (raising one 2.5yo dd too) who is merely giving my baby the opportunity to be put down to see if he falls asleep - if he cries, I pick him up, then see. I maybe try again, or maybe let him fall asleep on me. Occasionally he does fall asleep - no crying (can't do even 10 secs ), a lot of the time, of course, he is not ready.

I do personally believe attachment is crucially important (and have suggested to op that she maybe trust her instincts and not worry so much) but can you see that the tone of your posts do not support but just get people's backs up. They then think 'oh well, I am not one of those parents' and dissmiss it all. Very unhelpful.

[umberellascankill]

ok, have read the thread now. you have come across as a bit rude and judgemental greenmonkies. shame because some of what you have to say is interesting, it just gets a bit lost in the sanctimony.

[umberellascankill]

haven't read thread

our dd was always fed to sleep - started putting her down just before she had completely 'gone' and this has worked extremely well for us. she's 10mo now and we don't get any crying at bed/nap times. when we walk into her room with her she just pops her thumb in her mouth and lays her head on our shoulder because she knows it's time for a snooze.

We didn't left her to cry when we first started this, always went in and just gave her more cuddles before lying her down sleepy again.

[GreenMonkies]

I don't know where this "self settle" thing comes from, and why an one thinks it is ever ok to leave a baby, especially one so young, to cry at all.

Yes, I am passionate about "my" beliefs. Beliefs which are held by many real baby/childcare/human behaviour experts like Shiela Kitzinger, Desmond Morris, Mirriam Stoppard.

Jun I was not making assumptions about you, but I do know what well meaning HV's, friends and relatives etc will tell you, "don't go to her if she cries", "you'll spoil her" and of course "you're making a rod for your back" and my personal favourite "it won't harm her to cry". These statements all assume that we should be controlling our babies, rather than meeting thier needs and giving them the contact and security that they need. By the sound of it you have been doing everything absolutely right, and she is a happy, secure baby as a result, it's just a shame you are now trying to teach her to do something which goes completely against her nature and both of your instincts, and which is utterly unneccessary. She will learn to go to sleep on her own in time, but 4 months is way too early to expect it. Anything which she learns which involves her crying, even if you are patting and shushing her, is surely a lesson that she is too young to learn? Both my girls will go to sleep alone, DD1 (aged 5) will go to sleep after a story, I do stay with her because I love watching her fall asleep, and feeling her body relax as she nods off, and she sleeps all night in her own bed unless there is something wrong (she is not well etc). DD2 (aged 2) is generally nursed to sleep, but so was her sister at this age, so I am not stressed about it. She, like her sister, will come to it in her own time, there's no rush. What is a few years out of a lifetime? Can't we give our babies that?

NotAnOtter do be quiet, you are being childish, silly, agressively defensive (which infers you know I'm right really) and ridiculous. If you have nothing constructive to say, do yourself a favour and say nothing.

[NotAnOtter]

pudding25 aaaaahhhh thankyou for that lovely breath of fresh fresh air

[Wispabarsareback]

Several people have put their finger on it - babies are often crying when they're put down because they are tired and they just need to be allowed to go to sleep. There's a world of difference between a tired, going-off-to-sleep whinge and a full-on scream. Helping a baby feel secure enough to go to sleep in its own bed has to be a good thing - as I said earlier, I really think people project their own fears and anxieties onto their babies, when really all tired babies want (after they've been fed of course) is to wind down and go to sleep!

[Lionstar]

Probably has been suggested already, but we found when tiny DD was happier to settle by herself if she had something with Mummy-smell on in with her. So a muslin, a breast pad, an old T-shirt and later a purpose made 'Cuski' toy - which she still sleeps with now. Also a warm bed was better than the 'shock' of being put on cold sheets after a warm cuddle.

[pudding25]

jun If you do want her to self settle, then instead of pupd which can be very stimulating, what you can do is sit with her, stroking her head, hand on chest for a few mins, leave her for a few mins then go back in. I reckon she cried for so long because a) she was angry that something she was used to was being changed and b) she became overtired. Give it a couple of nights and she will self settle and become a better sleeper which will make her happier.

[pudding25]

greenmonkies* yet again, you try and shove your attachment parenting views on everyone like there is no other option and everyone who does not do attachment parenting is a bad parent. It drives me mad. You know what, I am the most loving parent with the most beautiful, happy and content little 5 mth old baby who happily falls asleep in her own cot in her own room and sleeps all night.
If I had done all the things you say are a must, I would be a nervous wreck and would not slept at all for the past 5 mths.

Everyone is entitled to do things the way they want to so quit the bloody preaching.

[Jun]

Greenmonkies I appreciate you taking the time to reply and what you say has merits but I feel I have to respond

I have not said at any point that I think my daughter is being naughty and manipulative, I know she cries because she is tired.

I know her well enough to know her growth spurts. There has been no Gina Ford routine, she has been fed on demand and has settled into her own pattern of feeding.

You are obviously passionate about your beliefs but I think you have made quite a few assumptions about mine.