I am actually going to lose it soon - it's been a year - child psychologist help?

[DorrisMcWhirter]

Dd1 (3.6) is driving me round the bend - quite seriously so. I can see myself snapping soon.
She is still awake, having gone to bed at 7.30. This is nothing unusual, she is regularly awake at 11pm. During this time she is calling downstairs and up and down all the time. She still gets up between 7 and 7.30am.
So far we have tried:
shouting
rewards / sanctions
staying with her till she falls asleep ( the most boring 3.5 hours of my life)
leaving a light on
turning all lights off
stairgate on door
letting her read
stopping her read

and pretty much anything else you care to think of.
She is shattered during the day and, as a result, really grumpy, but still she won't sleep.
We try to keep her as active as possible during the day. We have a steady bedtime routine.
So, what on earth can we do next? DH mentioned the possibility of trying to see a child psychologist today - how do you do that? Would it work anyway?
So very, very sleepy

Cargirl - I understand the non-drowsy thing! Dd1 wil be on hyperdrive until she drops

I agree with anna - you are trying to put her to bed according to a cultural expectation not her own body clock.

How about aiming for an 11pm bedtime next week; 10.30pm the next week; 10pm the week after etc until you find what is her natural rhythm?

I would veto any kiddies TV/dvds/videos and don't pay her an enormous amount of positive attention (lively games are out) or negative attention (sighing and OMG when are you going to bed..blah blah).

Don't let her know it's later than usual - just move your night time routine so that it ends at 11pm - and if she asks for bed before then keep, don't look pleased - just neutral.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to get her up at her ususal time whether she is asleep or not! Do not let her sleep in.

I suspect you and she will settle on a bedtime later than 7.30 but earlier than 11pm!

Sure, I'm off to bed in two tics - my middle dc had a nightmare last night (!) and I have a cold, so I will email you in the morning most likely.

I suggest email convo followed by chat on phone if you are still keen. I will include details of my most recent client too.

I'm pretty free whilst we're on school hols, so would just need to arrange childcare for a night or two if you wanted me to come for a visit.

I've worked with two other mumsnetters but had better check with them before I reveal their names!

There's lots you can do and most methods work pretty well but my approach is to take time finding something that the individual family believes in and can make work within their personal circsa.

Most people I work with have tried several methods and come full circle back to the original problem. So, figuring out what suits YOU and your dd is key.

Speak soon.

Dorris - dd goes to bed between 7.00 - 7.15 every night. 7.30 is a late night!

Gagarin, she sort of does this off her own back sometimes. She'll plonk herself downstairs and point blank refuse to go back up. We do pay her little attention at these times.
At the moment she wants to go to bed with me and has fallen asleep in our bed a few times.
She's down now as I'm typing, rubbing her eyes and looking knackered
I worry about letting her stay down till she's tired as DH gets no down time at all then. His only bit of relax time is sat at night watching a bit of TV.

Thank you Objectivity
Looking forward to speaking to you
(can you hear the relief as I type?!)

"she wants to go to bed with me and has fallen asleep in our bed a few times"

I think that says it all!

She knows what she wants - from her point of view she has to sleep ALONE and you don't. It's a hard thing to explain to a 3year old!

Good luck

dd who is 3 goes to bed at about 7.30 and sometimes 8.00 - this seems to be norm amongst nct friends.

there is one dd who has eratic bedtimes and stays up late also sometimes gets up and ends up in mum and dads bed. Parents have done loads to try to stop it but she just seems to be a bit of an owl - she is also very very bright for her age.

Good luck!

Anna - I am afraid I don't agree at all - my dd's go to bed at between 7:30 and 8 pm and they are 5.5 and 7 years old. When they were younger it was 7. I can't think of any of my friends whose children go to bed later than 8 or 9. Small children need 11-12 hours of sleep. In my classroom (5 yr olds) I can always tell the ones that have been up past 9.

Yes Gagarin, she wants company, I can understand it but it's driving me mad!
I get no 'relax' time at all (haven't for a year) I may pop shortly!
She is still awake, I'm now sat in my bed with her.

well she is old enough for star charts? I know they're a little old hat but you could use them to get her to stay in her room after you've said "goodnight"?

They don't sem to work for huge great big htings like "stay all night in my own bed and go to bed at 7 and go to sleep when i tell you and not wake me up on a sunday blah blah"

But if you choose something little they can help.

And what about the old favorite of you recording her favourite stories onto cassettes for her so she can have your voice while she settles or potters round her room?

I used to babysit for someone who did that and their kids loved it!

and I still think it might be worth delaying the bedtime thing and then working at bringing it forward?

The other alternative is a lock on the door? Or your and dh book into a hotel and invite your mother to stay!

The last two suggestions aren't serious btw!

Hmmm, good ideas there
Never thought about recording myself reading stories. She used to have a story CD on when she went off to sleep but doesn't want it now, that might change if it was Mummy reading the story.
She's still up and going, I'm half asleep!

Still awake and the police helicopter circling overhead is not helping

gagarin i like your style
do you work in this field?

Oh. My. God.

She's asleep!
She's on my legs though and I'm very hot but daren't move!!

Butterfly - I'm particularly liking the hotel suggestion. May show that one to my Mum as a hint!

Hi - will email today - BUSY busy weekend,sorry!

No worries, thank you