When can babies fall asleep on their own? Without sleep training.

[WatermelonsDownByTheBay]

Firstly just want to say I ideally dont want to sleep train. So asking for responses that dont point to that. 😊

My baby is 5 months and we've been rocking/bouncing him to sleep for a while now. During the night, he can sleep stretches of up to 7 hours, so he's usually able to link sleep cycles. Usually though does about 3h, wake up to feed, then another stretch or 2 of sleep until morning. He can also sometimes self soothe once he's woken in the night, but not every time. He's doing really well as he didn't sleep as much as this before. 😊

I'm just wondering when babies learn to be able to fall asleep independently? Without sleep training. And how do you know they're ready to not be rocked/bounced/etc to sleep anymore, and would just rather be put down?

For us it was about 4 or 5 years.

Thank you for your responses! I definitely think we've built sleep associations. Annoyingly I didnt used to do it when he was tiny, it's something people encouraged me to do as he got older to help him drop off to sleep. 🤦🏻‍♀️ Didn't know a thing about sleep associations before! Soo ridiculous they don't mention this kind of thing at antenatal classes. Nothing about wake windows either. So we really have been learning on the go. I feel like we wasted a lot of time at the classes as we didnt really learn much to implement once baby was here.
Anyway rant over. So how would you advise we go about doing this? Atm we shush as well. Do we start patting as we bounce and shush? Then turn it into patting and shushing in the cot? I just dont know if it will work honestly. 😬 Do we just try putting him down and watching how he manages on the monitor instead? How long do we leave him before reverting back to what works so he doesnt miss his nap?

So many questions sorry!!
I worry that when we try, he'll just wake up more and become really overtired.

Would love to hear your tips and advise. Thank you 💕

Thank you for your responses! I definitely think we've built sleep associations. Annoyingly I didnt used to do it when he was tiny, it's something people encouraged me to do as he got older to help him drop off to sleep. 🤦🏻‍♀️ Didn't know a thing about sleep associations before! Soo ridiculous they don't mention this kind of thing at antenatal classes. Nothing about wake windows either. So we really have been learning on the go. I feel like we wasted a lot of time at the classes as we didnt really learn much to implement once baby was here.
Anyway rant over. So how would you advise we go about doing this? Atm we shush as well. Do we start patting as we bounce and shush? Then turn it into patting and shushing in the cot? I just dont know if it will work honestly. 😬 Do we just try putting him down and watching how he manages on the monitor instead? How long do we leave him before reverting back to what works so he doesnt miss his nap?

So many questions sorry!!
I worry that when we try, he'll just wake up more and become really overtired.

Would love to hear your tips and advice. Thank you 💕

Edited to fix typos and it posted twice for some reason.

You can add in sleep associations that you are happy to continue like a song or white noise you play while rocking.
Maybe instead of rocking/bouncing in your arms you could pat and shush.
Then move to patting and shushing in the cot.
If he gets upset, pick him up and rock until he is calm but then put him down and pat in the cot again (and repeat and repeat and repeat as necessary!).

Once you're getting him to sleep by patting in the cot you can gradually reduce, by patting until nearly asleep, then just putting a hand on him and so on.

5 months is a good age to do this but you need to commit to it - accept it might take an hour of picking up and putting down to get him to fall asleep in the cot the first time.
You've spent 5 months building a habit, so it's going to take a week or two to embed a different habit.

This is what I do as a childminder to get babies settling in a cot - white noise on and shushing/patting. Or often rather than a pat as such they like a hand on their back/bum and more of a jiggle, and quite a firm one at that!

@friskery thank you for your advice. I ridiculously feel very intimidated by it, but we will try to start giving it a go. My husband isn't as nervous about it, so he said he'll try it first 😬

What is it your nervous about are you anxious in case he cries? The baby not your husband obviously 😀

I had one that took till about 18 months and the other did it from birth.

They do it when they do it. In my experience it's when they're not babies anymore.

@Coffeeishot lol 😁 it's stupid isn't it! I'm anxious that he'll get really worked up and won't be able to fall asleep. Then miss a nap, get overtired and the same thing happen again. On a loop.
We had a shocker of a sleep regression (nearly 2 months of 40 mins/hourly/2 hourly wake ups overnight and constant re-settling for naps) and we're still catching up on sleep now, so anything sleep/nap related makes me anxious! When I'd have to re-settle/settle him down for naps a month or so ago, he would scream and scream. It set my nerves right on edge. He's not like it now, so I don't know what's caused it other than that. I can't even fully relax when he's napping now, the thought of re-settling him back to sleep makes me feel dread. 🤦🏻‍♀️😔

Depends on the child. Eldest still wanted me there at 18 months (and still woke in the night for a feed), and slept in the same room until he was 3. He would come into us every morning for snuggles event then.

Youngest had had enough at 8 months - slept 7-7, and by a year was far more interested in getting breakfast than snuggles (the child was a prodigy when it came to eating - I used to leave everything out ready for him or he'd be scrambling to get it for himself)

My sister's 3 were all totally different too.

Edit: let me add, at 15, the eldest still comes in to say goodnight every night, and good morning every morning. And the youngest still couldn't care less and heads straight down for breakfast in the mornings before he'll talk to anyone!

I think a lot of things like rocking, feeding or whatever else in the end become sleep associations if repeated, and in my experience you have to break at some point or another by intervening.

I'm not against sleep associations. My approach is the path of least resistance until they're about 1 years old as for me this is easier.

I know many people put in a lot of effort to avoid sleep associations to encourage good sleep but that felt like way to much work and stress for me so I didn't do it. Instead at about 14 months with each I took the bottle away cold turkey (after gradual attempts failed) and they slept through the night after that (unless teething or ill) which was pretty infrequent.

I think it's good to consider your baby's needs, your needs and the needs of the family as a whole when making these decisions.

All babies are different. DS1 was able to be soothed with a cuddle and closeness around 18months. We disnt push it or doatress him so I always nursed to sleep and nursed and comforted through wake ups. My DS2 is 14months and we are doing the same nursing to bed and naps and any night wakes. Interestingly he used to self settle until 6months 😂 perfect newborn and he would only wake up once the first 8 weeks of life. Midwofe and HV said all good as he only lost 0.04% of birth weight and was 98th centile for weight and height.

Total different story now. I assume it will be sinilar 18 months will not longer need assistance and learns to sleep independently. It is the same as potty traianing some kids start age 12 months some not until 4.

@WatermelonsDownByTheBay They don't teach about sleep associations and wake windows because it's all nonsense. Baby sleep is ever changing, and is not influenced by whatever witchcraft parents practice. We like to delude ourselves into thinking that we have some control over our baby's sleep - that by tweaking 'wake windows' or altering the order in which we brush teeth and put on pyjamas we will help our baby sleep longer. But it's not true! The best thing you can do is let go of your ideas about how your baby "should" be sleeping and accept the reality of how s/he is sleeping.

The research shows that out of various interventions, sleep training alone does improve parental sleep. Babies still wake the same amount, they just don't cry out. No evidence of psychological damage, and no difference in sleep in ST vs not babies by 2 yo. ALSO on average, those who ST do do 5-6 times in the first year of life, so make of that what you will.

Hm I don't really agree with you there @QuantumPanic I see wake windows as the time they're awake for before they're ready for their next sleep. Not witchcraft. 🤨
But thanks for your input. I'm just wanting to hear first hand experiences of when other parents' children were able to fall asleep by themselves.

I feel sleep can be over complicated, remember babies are just tiny human beings. Wake windows don’t work for every baby, if you have a low sleep needs baby and follow conventional wake windows you will find yourself dealing with lots of night wakes and lots of crying (probably baby trying to tell you they’re not tired just bored…) look up the possums method. Essentially it’s following their cues and throwing away the clock - but to answer your question of falling asleep alone…
Our two year old has just started at night but not because we want him too, I had to nip out to change the new baby’s nappy left all the doors open carried on chatting to toddler and went back in to him asleep. Don’t be afraid of supporting your baby to sleep - the way you do it will change constantly and it’s not forever. If it’s taking longer than 15/20 minutes, generally they’re not tired enough so don’t waste your life in a dark room..

I agree! I had four children and fostered 5 pre adoption newborns. The trick is to feed change, quick cuddle and put down for sleep. The time for cuddles rocking etc is when they’re awake and not feeding. When you rock a child to sleep you are training them to only be able to get to sleep that way. My grandmother, who had 16 children used to say “Babies need to be put down because handling them for too long makes their little bones ache”. I’m not sure if that’s true but certainly when I see babies being passed from person to person because they keep crying and won’t settle, I always suggest lying the baby down for five minutes to see if it helps. Often it does.

Well a lot of tho threads I read on here are from Mums of 4-5 month old babies who are purely breastfed & not having any top ups or solids. I think a bottle is a lot less comforting & it’s also easier to track what they have had. Plus you can get ‘hungry baby’ milk which keeps them full longer.

I am baffled as to why it’s not the focus of antenatal & postnatal groups. Surely a baby & Mum who have both slept properly are in a better position to enjoy the day ahead.

Most babies don't self settle immediately when you put them down as newborns, they cry.

Same here!!

Sorry but this is absolutely not true for all babies.

I have twins, non ID, one slept on their own from day one and the other, aged 6!

OP there is no magic to this. They just do it when they're ready and I say this on all threads about this topic. People with twins can reliably speak on this topic if they have had two very different babies at the same time. It doesn't matter what you do. It is just about the baby and their needs, I feel strongly about that!