Don't understand how people sleep train

[EdithGrantham]

My DD is just over 1 and sleeps in her own cot until the first wake, usually around 2-3 hours, then is in bed with me breastfeeding on and off all night. I'm relatively happy with this setup but would ideally like a longer stretch at the start of the night.

I'm not overly keen on the idea of full on sleep training but would consider it if I thought it might work. The problem is if I send DH in to settle at the first wake or if I try to settle her without feeding she usually just gets more and more inconsolable to the point of throwing up so obviously we don't try it too often!

Has anyone had similar and found a way to settle without feeding?

I should add, she's not as bad if I'm out, DH walks her round the house to show her I'm not there and she settles more easily, not without a fair few tears but DH has said it's doable.

The trouble is, is that it is NOT a working for you, is it?

OP I think as others have suggested, trying to adjust how she falls asleep at the beginning of the night probably is the key. There are plenty of gentle sleep training methods. Trying to bring her last feed forward by 40mins and make sure she's awake afterwards is a good start.

The disappearing chair method along with bottom patting is where I'd then move to. If she can get herself off to sleep on her own then you have a better chance of a longer initial stretch and can try and replicate (along with a feed) if she wakes up.

I would also very much encourage you to adjust how you bf overnight. Several feeds through the day and overnight are fine but lots of little feeds overnight and falling asleep with nipple/milk in her mouth will increase her chances of tooth decay. My DH is a dentist and very much impressed this upon me when I BF. If she does feed and fall asleep, try and rub some toothpaste around her teeth afterwards.

Good luck x

Agree with @Soontobe60 all babies are “sleep trained”.

Some have been taught/trained that they go to sleep while being fed/held. Some have been taught that they go to sleep on their own in the cot.

The difficulty comes when the environment changes. I.e. when they went to sleep they were being held, and when they stir between sleep cycles they are not being held.

This means their brain wakes them fully to assess the change, instead of stirring and carrying on sleeping.

Imagine you go to sleep in bed and half way through the night your DH has taken your pillow. You would wake up fully to find it and demand it back. Imagine he did it every night, you would keep waking up and demanding it back.

This is what happens when babies don’t fall asleep in the environment they are meant to stay asleep in.

If you really were serious to crack the night wakings you would have to stop the feeding altogether and be committed that once in the cot for bed she stays in the cot for the whole night. Ours used to make herself sick the Health visitor told me to stand her in the bath and strip her off and put clean pjs on with no talking and no eye contact then straight back into cot. Yes if I had done this for a week I dare say it would have worked but I could t do it a d I doubt if many mums could ! It can be done but you will have to go through the stress of that for the end gain.

We were told by the sleep consultant to get DS out of the cot and clean up the vomit then put him back, repeating softly, time to sleep now, night night.

It only took one night. I’m so glad we did it.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you don't sound like you really want to make any changes. Which is fine.

The things that people are suggesting are right. She will cry, because she likes the current set up and doesn't want it to change. She feels safe and happy with how you currently do things.

There's no magic solution to this that she's going to love. It will be hard for 2/3 nights till she gets used to it.

If you aren't fully on board with it you won't be able to be consistent and follow through with it. Maybe you could leave it a few more months and revisit this?

The magic fix really is time. Every baby is different. What works for one won't work for another. Which is why the business of 'sleep' is such a huge one - every parent is trying to find the magical solution that works for them (because we're exhausted and just want to sleep...!) and if there was a simple single answer, there would be no need for sleep consultants and books and apps and different methods...
But in reality, time is the single thing that will fix it - even if its not what people want to hear! Babies, like every other mammal, know instincitvely how to sleep, they don't need to be taught - but for a few years, they need comfort if something disturbs them, or help to fix the thing that has disturbed them. As they get older, they need this help or comfort less and less.
I know that doesn't help when you're in the midst of it all and it feels like you will never sleep again! But honestly, you will and it will get better. Whether you do nothing and carry on as you are now, or whether you decide to go down the route of trying some of the tricks and methods suggested, your baby will eventually sleep better and this time will become a distant memory.
(I say all of this as a mother of a 7 year old who still wakes in the night sometimes...!)

I didn't do standard "sleep training" with my 2.

I stuck to a solid routine.

DD1 she slept in my bed and breastfed on demand until she was 8-9 months. Then I'd feed her to sleep and pop her in the cot in her room. If she woke as I put her down I'd shhh/pat her to sleep. If it didn't work, I'd breastfeed again and try her back in the cot. I'd do this on every wake up. After the first 1-2 weeks she started gradually waking up less. And doing the odd night of sleeping through. Though would wake 1-3 times most nights. Gradually the sleeping through got more frequent. And the wake ups got less. By 12 months she was sleeping through 99% of the time. I still breastfed her to sleep, and put her in the cot.

I'd started dropping day feeds at 11.5 months. By 12 months I was just feeding at bedtime and morning. Till 13 months when I didn't offer boob. She didn't ask for it. From then she went to bed with a bottle. Which we slowly switched from milk to water. Continued to shhh and pat her to sleep till 14/15 months. One night we tried leaving her and she went off to sleep by herself.

DD2. I follow the same idea but she stopped falling asleep on the boob around 10 months. So we'd rock her to sleep and put her in the cot. She still woke loads in the night until about 2 weeks before her 1st birthday, when she started sleeping through. I had to go a bit more cold turkey on the breastfeeding than I would have liked because my mental health was suffering from thr pure lack of sleep but as soon as I stopped she slept through.

Everyone's different. I couldn't ever leave my babies to cry alone. What we didn't wasn't totally tearless. But they were always heavily supported. Even now DD2 likes someone in the room while she falls asleep. And I'll do that as long as she needs it.

Thanks for all the new replies. I think feeding back to sleep but persisting in putting her in her cot would be the way we could try and change things. I have done that a couple of times and she has stayed asleep for another couple of hours so it's definitely got potential!

I'm not willing to let her cry to the point of vomiting (which she will do if I try to settle her any other way) as it seems unnecessarily cruel when I have the means to comfort her easily.

I've spoken to the pharmacist about her seemingly having painful gas and they advised she gets checked over by a doctor so will do that as well when I can get an appointment.

All humans wake periodically throughout the night. it's all about being able to transition between sleep cycles. Right now your DD has a very strong feed to sleep association. as a PP has said, that's the first thing you need to work on. This can be done by making sure you keep her awake for the duration of the feed. And I mean totally away, not drowsy. keep the lights on, talk to her whatever you need to do to stop her falling asleep. You don't have to stop breastfeeding but you could give her a cup of whole milk before bath and then a small boob top up just before bed.
Once you have separated the feeding and sleeping you've got a stronger foundation to start on.

Sleep training doesn't have to involve screaming and crying but fact of the matter is there will be a rough few nights. It shouldn't be more than 4 if you are consistent which is the most important thing. Find a method you agree with and stick to it like glue. Ideally she should stay in her own bed all night from the moment she goes down until morning. You can stay with her, shush her, pat her and comfort her but she needs to learn how to do it own her own. Then you can start reducing the amount of intervention.

Personally we went with interval checks as both my children got more agitated the more we intervened.

100%

We have a very similar set up with our nearly 14month old. He has always breastfed to sleep at the beginning of the night and for night wake ups.

About a month ago he went from 5-8 wakes to about 3-5 wakes. At the end of last week he was down to 2 wakes at 2am and 4am and then for the last 3 nights he has woken once at 4am.

I have done nothing differently and continued to cuddle, feed, and co-sleep from first wake up, so the last few nights he is only in our bed from 4am-6/7am.

I know that they are all different but just wanted to say that they do sometimes just start sleeping better on their own and it can happen pretty quick, in the space of a month we have gone from 8 wakes down to 1 wake. I think pp mentioned Lyndsey Hookway on instagram, I’d definitely recommend following her.

This is some BS made up by the sleep training industry that has unfortunately stuck and Mumsnet users seem to proliferate.

I have plenty of friends who BF to sleep and their babies sleep through. I myself BF to sleep but myself or my partner can rock or cuddle back to sleep during night wakes, unless baby is genuinely hungry.

They cry. They get over it. Never being allowed to cry isn’t a way to set up resilience. That’s not to say they should be left crying day after day, week after week but a couple of days angry tears because they’re not getting what they want, when they want it, won’t do any harm.
This notion of perpetual happiness and smiles is damaging.

Stop overnight drinks and feeds. Tell the child it’s bedtime. Set up a good routine that gives a clear message.

Ours used to make herself sick the Health visitor told me to stand her in the bath and strip her off and put clean pjs on with no talking and no eye contact then straight back into cot.

This is disgusting.

So is this.

I can't believe people are acting as though putting BABIES through something so traumatic it would make them vomit is some sort of rite of passage.

Just wanted to pop back on to say that we've figured out the reason she's so restless is definitely due to the medication she's on giving her painful gas. On a day we skipped her medicine she slept really well and was very easy to put back down in her cot when she did wake. Unfortunately it then led to her being constipated so I've got a doctor's appointment to hopefully change her medicine.

I'm so glad I didn't listen to some of the suggestions on here as she obviously needed the comfort for being in pain.