6m old no sleep -save me

[charlottero]

My 6m old just cannot sleep through the night. Not even close. She NEVER has. The best night I've ever had is 2hourly wakes and the worst 10/20 minute wakes.
I've done the sleep courses and feel like I've tried EVERYTHING. We have moved her to her own room now in the hope that things might change. I completely did my back in by simply getting up so much in the night and being with her all day.
In the day time I laugh with people about how awful it is but at night I am honestly suicidal. My husband is really helpful, but even when he does half the night we are still both up. It takes me so long to fall asleep because I just feel like she's about to wake up (and usually does.)
Things I can think of that I've tried (for weeks, if not months...)
-routine bath etc
-pitch black room
-formula night feeds
-white noise
-good day naps
-sleeping bags,swaddles,sleepyheads.
-dummy
-feeding to sleep/not feeding to sleep
-big cot/little cot
-early bedtime/late bedtime

I don't know if I even can be helped or just comfort in that someone else has the same?
I am genuinely at the end how can anyone possibly go on with 2hours sleep a night for 6 months.

Oh I feel for you, but it will get better!
My first DD was awful with sleep, up every hour for months. At one point I actually googled ‘can you die from sleep deprivation?’ She’s now 2.5 and sleeps well in her own room.

In contrast I’ve just had my 2nd DD, who is 3 months, and she’s completely different. She only wakes once or twice in the night, and often sleeps for 5 hours straight.

No advice I’m afraid, but just a handhold to say I know how hard it is and it will get easier xx

I remember it well OP, it is exhausting, it will eventually pass!!
Have you started weaning her yet? That may help.

Have you tried sleep training? Controlled crying? Cry it out?

A suicidal mama is not good for a baby. I've been there. Problem was fixed with 5 days of cry it out. After which my baby and I were both much happier.

@Estasala I have tried it once but found it really hard. I would try again though. Is there a method to it? Timings etc?

[quote charlottero]@KM38 yes you're so right. Everything feels 10x more awful in the night.
To begin with I wondered if I had PND but if I can get sleep I'm fine. Sadly, I've spoken to HV multiple times who tells me it's normal, been referred to well-being who totally failed me after about 3 months of being messed around. I'm now paying for private counselling but I'm almost 100% sure I'd cope if my baby slept.
It sounds pretty conceited and I don't mean it to be, but before having a baby I felt like I could do most things and could achieve. Since my baby never gets enough sleep I feel like I've failed us both! X[/quote]
Well firstly, well done for questioning the possibility of PND @charlottero - a lot of people wouldn’t! And for recognising that you need the counselling 😊 I hope you’re finding it helpful! It’s not easy to admit when you’re struggling
I’m assuming your baby is fed, and clothed and loved - which means you most definitely have not failed! You only need to look at some newspaper stories to unfortunately see some poor little souls in much worse situations that your baby OP!! Please don’t forget that.
Every night I tell my little sleep thief (affectionate nickname 😅) that I know he’s getting this all out the way now so that he can be a dream as a toddler
How is your baby at sleeping during the day? What does a typical days “routine” look like for you guys?

@LouLou198 yeh I have in the hope it would help. 2 meals a day now and no difference sadly 😖

@KM38 bless you- thanks.
Yeh she is an idyllic baby in the day. I mean she has off days but generally good.
Usually 7am wake, BF, play.
9:30 nap
10ish play
11ish BF
12ish food then nap
12:30ish play
15:00 BF then nap (she finds this nap v hard and sometimes skips)
17:30 eat, play
19:00 BF, bath, story,
1930-2000- bed (feed to sleep if necessary)
2200- wake and thereafter wakes many times until 7am😭

@KM38 I'm BF on demand apart from during the night where she has ready mix formula so my husband can help me because I find expressing v hard

Have you tried breastfeeding her in the night to see if it makes a difference? Breastmilk at night produces hormones that help both mother and baby to sleep.

My 6 month old is also up every 2 hours all night. I think I need to start some kind of gentle sleep training because I want my bed back but we have coslept up to now. It’s still shit @OnlyFoolsnMothers but when she wakes I can just shove my nipple in her mouth and fall asleep while she’s still feeding, whereas if she was in her cot (even a cosleeper cot) I’d have to sit up or get out of bed and stay awake until the end of the feed to put her back. So it does help a bit as I’m only awake for about 30 seconds. I find if I have to actually get out of bed it wakes me up properly so I can’t then get back to sleep. Obvs doesn’t work if formula feeding but I think it’s not advised then in any case.

My now 3 year old was the same at 6 months but after night weaning at 11 months he was great. It does end eventually and once a bad sleeper doesn’t mean always a bad sleeper!

@charlottero , I feel your pain. My 6 month old DS is also a horrendous sleeper. Have you thought about taking your little one to a cranial osteopath? I've been taking my son and only had 2 sessions but he seems a lot calmer, and it's slowly helping his nights. I did the same with my eldest son when he was 6 months (he's now nearly 3) and from about 7 months and after 3 cranial sessions he slept through. Could be worth looking into :)

Put the £250 towards a sleep consultant to do the thinking for you?

[quote charlottero]@KM38 bless you- thanks.
Yeh she is an idyllic baby in the day. I mean she has off days but generally good.
Usually 7am wake, BF, play.
9:30 nap
10ish play
11ish BF
12ish food then nap
12:30ish play
15:00 BF then nap (she finds this nap v hard and sometimes skips)
17:30 eat, play
19:00 BF, bath, story,
1930-2000- bed (feed to sleep if necessary)
2200- wake and thereafter wakes many times until 7am😭[/quote]
Your routine looks pretty similar to ours @charlottero! Where does your baby nap during the day? I find that we get a “better” night with DS if he sleeps better during the day so that he’s not overtired! I spoke to a baby sleep person on a chat thing online and they said that at 6m baby should still be clocking around 2.5-3.5 hours of naps during the day (split over 2 or 3 naps) then 10-11 hours overnight! And always aiming for the middle nap to be longer than the other 2.

We’re trying to do nap at 9am (30-45 mins) - he manages this one in his cot now as of a few weeks ago. Nap at 12.30pm (ideally 1.5h) - if I put him in his cot for this one he lasts 20-30 mins at most then is cranky the rest of the day so I’ve resorted to still holding him for this one. I make my lunch before his nap and chill on the couch while I hold him and eat my lunch. Or, on a nice day I take his out a long walk and try to keep him asleep in the pram. Nap at 4/4.30pm (45mins-1h) - depends how the days going for this one. Sometimes I’ll put him in his cot but if he’s had bad sleep so far that day I’ll try holding him again to keep him asleep. We use white noise for every nap too. Then he’s down in bed for 7.30-8pm.

When you’re saying “eat” at 5.30, I’m assuming that’s a second solid meal? The sleep person also told me that it’s best to introduce solids as lunch, then breakfast and lunch, then add dinner when they’re ready for 3 meals as eating too close to bedtime can keep them awake 🤷🏻‍♀️ Don’t know how accurate that is for all babies but could you flip your routine and try doing breakfast and lunch and see if it makes a difference? 🤷🏻‍♀️

My DS was diagnosed with silent reflux and had complete breast refusal at 3months 😓 I expressed exclusively for 2 weeks trying to still make sure he was getting breast milk and it was honestly torture so I get the not expressing!!!! My DS is on an anti reflux formula now as my milk supply tanked when I was expressing!

You did well not to tell that mum at baby group to take a flying jump @charlottero Remember, if they're not going to come round at 3am to hold the baby, you don't need to listen to their advice if you don't want to. You're doing so well, hang in there!

@Laur89 to be honest I just had to google what that was! Do you think it really works? I'm deffo up for anything

@charlottero I really do! I'm convinced it helped with my oldest DS, it's only been 2 sessions with my 6 month old but so far his latch has improved to help breastfeeding (he had a shallow latch but I that's improved now) and at night he can go from 7-2 or 3 ish without waking (sometimes, definitely not consistently yet) but I'm hoping a few more sessions will help! Feel free to send me a pm if you have any other questions x

I think your baby is really overtired (I’m sure you know that already).
At 6 months this is what I would do:
Usually 7am wake, BF, play.
8am introduce breakfast eg porridge or mashed banana and avocado
9:30 nap > move this to 9.15 for 45 mins which is a full sleep cycle.
10ish play
11ish BF > move to 10.30 or straight after waking from nap
12 noon (keep this consistent) lunch
12:30ish play > nap of 2 to 2.5hours
2.30pm BF
17.00 dinner
6.00 bath

6.30 BF
7.00 pm bed keep this 100% consistent
2200- wake and feed
One more feed in the night is to be expected until solids are fully established.
On this routine you have two “anchors” - a 12 noon lunch followed by a long nap and a 7pm bedtime. You are aiming to set these in stone now until your baby is 2 to 2.5 hrs old.
I also think your baby is not eating enough in the day and is making up for calories at night. So see if these timings help.
If the lunchtime map is less than 90 mins long then do a short nap of 4.40-5 and move bed to 7.15. But ultimately you are aiming for a short morning nap and a longer lunchtime one.
The other thing to be totally consistent about is how you do sleep and naps. You have to choose your method and stick to it like glue. Shhh pat works well at this age. Stay with the baby and soothe to sleep in their bed. And try not to feed to sleep at all (easier said than done, I know).

https://raisingchildren.net.au/babies/sleep/solving-sleep-problems/controlled-comforting?gclid=CjwKCAjw-qeFBhAsEiwA2G7Nl4FheVgBjhvobTBOycJZU6hxbiFXNRD471FzMxLyMehmhk8nmWbJxoC3BsQAvDD_BwE

Some info on sleep training here.

OP my baby never slept more than 2 hours at a stretch- not even once- until he was about 15 months. DH is a doctor and works crazy shifts so it was mostly on me. At 6 months I was where you are, thinking it was gonna kill me. But honestly it does get better, your body learns to cope with it somehow.

I've since realised this is surprisingly common - a lot of mum friends had babies that were similar. I don't know why it isn't more talked about tbh, as half the battle is fighting against it/thinking it can be changed. Once you just accept it it gets easier!

@Drowninginwashing thank you that's really helpful. I find I mentally lose it when I have had a good night and think we are getting somewhere and then seem back to square 1 the next. Or when people tell me how perfectly their babies sleep. Genuinely think there should be a support group haha!

@charlottero I dont know about you but whilst the sleep deprivation is hard what I found harder was constantly thinking 'I just need to get it all right - naps etc 'and then she will sleep'. That's what was torture for me.

If you can afford it, I would highly recommend a sleep consultant. I found it really helpful to just have one person advising me and it gave me a programme to follow. Within a month our lives were genuinely transformed. Best 250 I've ever spent

Sleep train!! For the love!! You being suicidal is WAY more damaging than a few nights of crying. If I were you, I would go for CIO from the get go, there is solid research to show it is effective & quickly. The crying might be hard for you to listen to but there is no credible evidence showing that a few nights crying harms an otherwise loved & well cared for child & lots of evidence showing sleep deprived parents & babies is very harmful. You will benefit from a child who sleeps well but ultimately you realllyyyyy ARE doing it for them, even if it might not feel like it in the moment.

On your own sleep: I did have a magic baby who slept through very early but I had insomnia for months post birth (close to a year) which led to depression and suicidal ideation. I was prescribed non addictive sleep medication to help get over the hump and saw a sleep specialist for sleep focused CBT which made an unbelievable difference and is what research has shown to be most effective at dealing with long term insomnia.

The first line sleep meds are actually super low dose anti D’s, they make you really tired at a low dose but have very minimal effects otherwise.

Just coming on to say you're not alone. My daughter is 7 months and I've recently been prescribed anti-depressants after reaching out for help with my health visitor and GP. Sleep deprivation was making me feel like I was going insane.

If you’re that desperate then surely do sleep training? Yes, it’s hard but certainly no worse than being suicidal.

(We did cry it out which was a miracle cure, for what it’s worth.)

On FB the beyond the sleep training project is basically a support group for those of us with non-sleep-through-the-night-ers. Lots of advice for responsive ways to help baby sleep better and you cope.

DD started sleeping though a bit recently at 2.5yrs, no sleep training but recently milk dried up and then we night weaned which caused so many more problems for months, we did/do cosleep but I can put her in her own bed and she sleeps about the same as with me.

When your baby wakes is it a full on scream and needing a feed, or are they just awake?
I would definitely try sleep training over co-sleeping.