5 month old will only nap for 1 sleep cycle unless held!

[NZBD]

I know there’s multiple threads on similar topics on here, however most relate to night sleep rather than naps so wondering if anyone can help.

My 5 month EBF baby was always held for naps up until 4 months old and had nice long naps during the day, and managed decent stretches of sleep at night with 2 feeds in between. Then the 4 month regression hit 😫. Night time sleep went crazy and after holding him half the night I decided I could no longer carry him for all naps too. Started putting him down drowsy but awake and patting to sleep with dummy. Amazingly he took to this super quick and within a couple of days he would fall asleep in 2-3 minutes. However he will never sleep longer then 35 minutes maximum!

This has remained consistent for the last month, so I have the option of either giving him 4-5 x 30 minute naps or going back to holding him to get a longer nap. I’ve tried everything I can think of, waking him briefly to interrupt his sleep cycle, starting the shush pat from around 20 minutes to soothe him through to the next sleep cycle, leaving him in the crib 10/20 minutes to see if he goes back to sleep but nothing works!

Tried a sleep consultant but didn’t get any new suggestions, was just told to work on night sleep and this may in turn improve his naps. Thing is he can get through sleep cycles on a night. He’ll have bad nights where he’s up every 2 hours but on a good night he’ll sleep from bedtime at 8pm through to 3/4am so he is able to self settle!

Wondering if anyone has any ideas? Is it a developmental thing where he’ll just get it on his own at some point? Or am I missing something? Super stressed now as I’ve got a few events coming up in the next couple months and I’m just picturing myself unable to participate because I’m sat with a sleeping baby attached to me! It doesn’t help that he’s super clingy when awake too so I literally don’t get a minute to myself all day!

Sorry for the rant, just feeling pretty desperate after shelling out more than I could afford for a sleep consultant and still being stuck with the same issue. Help!

@FATEdestiny
Thank you so much for your response! So this morn awake at 6am. Wasn't sure what her awake window should be but she was showing signs of being tired after 45 mins (lack of eye contact, red eyebrows) so got her in the pram outside and rocked her with some white noise on and she was asleep in 5 mins 
We are mid cycle now and I'm just sat outside (🥶)with her waiting for her signs that i need to start rocking again.

I have 100% been keeping her awake too long in the morning and she's starting the day overtired.

@NWM12
So last night she went down at 7:30, which is later than normal, and woke at 10:30. Fed her and she was back down for just before 11pm
Woke just before 2, fed and back asleep by 2:10
Woke at 4am fed and back down for 4:15 then stirred again 10 mins later. Brought her in bed with me and she fed for a very short time and was back off until 5:45ish

So the feeds are essentially
10:30/11pm
2pm
4pm

I guess that's not too bad?? She's a very hungry baby, obv don't know how much she takes at each feed as she's BF but tried giving her a bottle of formula the other night to make sure I could get a substantial feed into her and she refused and only wanted boob. she happily takes a bottle at bedtime every day.

@NWM12
Haha just cross posted!! I think we have the same issue where baby is already overtired and is making things harder for us!!

@FATEdestiny

I have a 5 month old too. She too will only nap when held or in the sling but that works fine for me as I have a toddler so she usually sleeps while I’m out at the park with him. Problem is she also cosleeps and I want to get her into her cot...how do I do this? She feeds to sleep atm so I’m really starting from scratch

This could probably do with your own thread.

The advice for you will be different to the others on this thread because what you're doing is called Attachment Parenting. It's almost the opposite of independent sleep in that you encourage baby to take all their comfort from you (held in a sling, cosleeping, breastfeeding to sleep).

There's nothing wrong in doing that, so don't let anyone suggest there is. But baby is not independantly sleep and - importantly in terms of your question - likely could not independently sleep* without (a) significant amounts if distress for you and baby. And (b) a significant change in your parenting philosophy.

• when I say "Could not independently sleep" I should quantify that by adding "quickly" or "any time soon". Children who are attachment parented do become independant sleepers, but on a much longer time frame of months and years, not weeks and months.

So your answer might actually involve me resetting some unrealistic expectations. Either that or councilling if you really could cope with the levels of upset and extreme distress sleep training will cause in your family.

Oh no! I haven’t been deliberately following an attachment parent philosophy (not that I’m against it either)...I’ve just done whatever has got me the most sleep since I’ve got a toddler as well. The sling just gives me both hands free and means I can go to the park rather than have to stay in the same room as the Moses basket at home. But now she’s reaching the age where she can sleep in a different room I’d like to be able to put her in her cot at night so I can have an evening again! But absolutely do not want to cause her extreme distress. I feel like I’ve broken her now when I thought I was just being responsive.

PS she also sleeps in the pram but has never slept in her cot

@TangBloodyFastic sorry if you’ve already said but how old is your little one? And how often does she feed during the day? Mine can go 3 hours between feeds during the day, longer if he has a good nap but I’ve been doing a bit of a cluster feed in the evening to try and tank DS up for the night ahead. So I feed him at 5pm as per his regular feeds, then at 7pm I’ll feed him again (one side), then bath and into pyjamas and I’ll feed him again (other side), then into his sleeping bag and a couple of stories then into his cot. This makes me feel better that he shouldn’t really be hungry till I next feed him at 2am.

Maybe you could try feeding a bit more in the evening and then cutting out the 10pm feed? Do the one at 2, and then try and push the 4am forward till she wakes at 5/6? If it works at least it gives u a solid chunk of sleep at the start of the night, plus if you manage to get her off to sleep without that feed then you’ll know she’s not necessarily waking for hunger but more for comfort. It was certainly the case with my son.

@NWM12 while 11h over night sleep is the average, anything from 10h-12h is in the range of normal. So I would say your 8pm-6pm night just is what it is. While you're working on daytime naps, your baby's night sleep will also evolve. So I would just accept your 6am wake ups for now. Your routines will change many times in the coming 12 months so it won't be forever.

@TangBloodyFastic I think your night feeds are to do with comfort and not calories. I would night wean, but that's only going to happen if you have an alternate way of getting baby back to sleep without feeding. A dummy is ideal for a sucky baby, but at 6m you might have left it too late to introduce one.

@Nameregretter Sleeping on you is going to end up being one of those dreaded Rod For Your Own Back. I'd try to ensure baby falls asleep independently as much as possible. As discussed, this is most easily done on a surface which moves.

Similarly, feeding to sleep will become a habit harder to break the longer it continues. Could you develop otger ways to get her to sleep?

At night, it might be worth considering a sidecar cot (one side removed from a full sized cot and butted up to your bed). This allows you to cuddle up yo baby inside the cot, but extract yourself back to your bed when baby is settled.

@NWM12
She's 5mths.
What time is your DS's bedtime? Ours is 7pm and I do a BF at 4pm. She is getting stewed fruit and baby rice at 5pm, bath at 6pm then a bottle at 630ish bed at 7pm.
We've had to start weaning early due to reflux which was agreed with the dr.

I could maybe squeeze in another BF before her bath but even now after the fruit and baby rice she sometimes doesn't finish her bottle.

@FATEdestiny
So we have just tried out first morning nap and it was a success! She managed 2hours. She actually woke mid 2nd cycle, eyes open and whinging, but was clearly still tired so I rocked and rocked and amazingly she went off again

RE Night weaning I don't have another way of getting her back to sleep. I have tried and tried (and tried) a dummy since she was 8 weeks and she point blank refuses
Will she just gradually stop wanting the comfort naturally? I am trying to transition to FF already but she's being stubborn and is refusing bottles any other time of day except bedtime
I think I'm going to have to make sure she's REALLY hungry and then give bottle
I was hoping by giving her bottles that the need for the comfort from the boob would naturally reduce

@FATEdestiny I could try controlled crying, which I have done at bedtime - successfully, but I don't want to start a battle overnight that I'm not guaranteed to win so haven't tried it yet.

@FATEdestiny I don’t mind being up at 6, I just worry that he’s not getting enough sleep as he will want his first nap quite soon after. He just slept for 45 minutes in the bouncer. Not as long as yesterday afternoon but he seemed to settle into deeper sleep faster today. I think I’ll just continue practising with the first nap of the day and hopefully he’ll start progressing soon.

@TangBloodyFastic bedtime is 8pm. Will your little one not be rocked to sleep either? We had 2 maybe 3 rough nights when I cut down night feedings, DS cried wanting to be fed but we persevered with a combination of rocking and the dummy (which he refused a lot!). I even held him whilst sleeping for one night but he pretty quickly accepted that his feed would only be at 2 so now he is naturally waking up at that time. Don’t get me wrong he still stirs between bedtime till then but goes off pretty easy with either the dummy or patting him/holding his hand.

Will she just gradually stop wanting the comfort naturally?

You'll need to replace the comfort mechanism, not expect it to not be needed. A child's brain develops emotionally enough to not need comfort to sleep at around preschool age (3-5 years old).

Until then, baby/toddler will need comfort of some kind. Lots of breastfeeding mum's move to a comfort blanket. So start cuddling a special comforter to baby's face when feeding to make the association. Then in time move the comfort mechanism to the blankie not feeding.

Set your expectations with this though. It's generally around 12 months (ish) that you start seeing a comfort bond with special blankets/toys. So it's not a quick fix, more a work-towards.

Also TangBloodyFastic, Re weaning. Remember that early weaning foods are low calorie - fruit, veg etc. The most calorie dense substance you can get into baby, mouthful-for-mouthful, is milk. So solids weaning needs to be in addition to all of the milk pre-weaning. Not in place of. If you find solids are replacing milk feeds, you'll get a reimergence/increase in night feeds to make up for the calorie deficit.

I just worry that he’s not getting enough sleep as he will want his first nap quite soon after [waking].

Completely normal.

It's nothing to do with not getting enough sleep, it's just you were very much over estimating how long a baby should stay awake for.

At this age, I'd be expecting never, ever more than 2h awake. Closer to an hour. Sometimes it might only be 45m awake. That's all through the day - So first nap right through to bedtime.

@FATEdestiny re weaning thank you for that! Never occurred to me about the calorie content - will move the meal to the morning or earlier in the day to ensure she takes all of her milk before bed

We have started with a comforter about a month ago which she now nuzzles into when going to sleep in the pram/car/cot so hopefully this will migrate over
Thank you for the time scale it gives me a realistic expectation

@FATEdestiny I’ve tried getting him down with shorter wake windows but he won’t sleep. Yesterday all naps were around 30 minutes, even when held so I tried for shorter wake windows in between thinking he must be tired but he will not go to sleep until it’s been closer to the 2hr mark. I’ve read on other threads that it’s developmentally appropriate for naps to be short around this age, is that right?

I’ve read on other threads that it’s developmentally appropriate for naps to be short around this age, is that right?

Short naps start from around 3/4 months old, so are developmentally normal from then onwards. They last as long as it takes baby to learn to link sleep cycles. Some babies learn to link sleep cycles very quickly so are back to having long naps from 4 or 5 months, some take longer to learn. And some families make it difficult for baby to learn to link sleep cycles so the is due continues for a very long time.

So age appropriate? Yes and no. Your baby is now in the phase where they can learn and be taught to link sleep cycles. You have to teach it though and learning isn't an instant-change type of thing, it takes time.

The way to avoid over tiredness when naps are short is to reduce awake time.

Over tiredness makes it harder for baby to link sleep cycles. So it becomes a self-perpetuating downward spiral.

@TangBloodyFastic wondering if you’ve had any progress with naps or nights? Sad to say after reading My posts on here that my DS has gotten worse! He’s not 6 and a half months and up every 1-2 hours all night wanting to be fed. Can’t believe that he’s gone from 1 short feed a night to this. Bedtime is still at 8 and he will have one decent stretch of sleep till 11-12, after that he’s up every hour or 2 and will literally scream at any attempts to get him back to sleep. Won’t be rocked, take dummy, won’t even let DH hold him and will only go back to sleep after a feed. Then gets up again an hour later to repeat. He goes down in the cot awake at bedtime and holds my hand to sleep so I’m not even feeding to sleep. Never have so I don’t know why he’s needing it now.

I’m honestly losing the will to carry on. I have no help during the day either, he only naps when held and he’s become super clingy to the point where I can’t even go to the bathroom without him screaming. Is all of this typical for 6-7 month olds? Or have I broken my baby? 😭 @FATEdestiny would love some advice if you’re around

@NWM12 you haven't nailed independant settling and that is the crux of your issues (all if them - naps and night wakes).

Your baby isn't going to grow out of this. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to be realistic here.

You've either got to:

• sleep train so that baby goes to sleep independently at all times - naps and night wakes.

Or

• Accept that your baby will feed to sleep and embrace that so that life is as easy as possible. For example in the night feed lying down, cosleep with your top off and free access to breast. For naps either do the same or feed to sleep in a cradle hold and stay there.

Maybe just hang in there - my DS only napped 30 to 40 mins at a time until he was about 8 months old. Then suddenly one afternoon he slept a for a full two hours. I thought it was a crazy fluke but it continued- he’s still doing it now at age three.

@NWM12 sounds like you're having a tough time sleep deprivation is a killer!

My LO is not doing too bad. Like you, I've just had a quick read through my posts and she is slightly better.

The majority of her naps are now in the cot. She stopped linking cycles in the pram so decided to go back to the cot. 45 mins is her usual nap time - which now I know that she consistently does that, I can plan and work to her schedule. She has, on a good day, 4 naps. Some days I can only get her to do 3. Last week she actually linked a cycle in the cot, out of the blue, and hasn't done it since 😖
Bedtime is between 6:30-6:45 - Some days she has to be fed to sleep other days I can feed and put her down and she gets herself off to sleep.
She went through a week/two recently of every 2 hour wakes. Only wanting to feed to sleep. I decided that she doesn't need all the feeds so asked DH to see to her when she wakes when not due a feed.
So she went from
10pm feed
1am feed
3am feed
4am feed
5am feed
6am awake

Since DH has been going in to settle she now wakes at 10pm but self settles after a couple of mins and will then sleep until 1ish when I will feed
Then she has recently done until 4/5 when I will feed again - awake is then between 6 and 7

She's not being taking enough at bedtime for me to not feed her at 1am so am going to bring her afternoon bottle forward to 3/3:30 (from 4pm) to make sure she is hungry at bedtime for her bottle.

The only change we have done is to use controlled crying when we know she is ready for sleep. This has enabled us to let her sort herself out at 10pm. She has self settled at the 4am wake up a couple of times too but that is not as consistent as the 10pm one just yet

We bit the bullet prob 6 weeks ago and let her cry herself to sleep, awful, but she was asleep in 20mins. We kept going in and soothing her (not that she was soothed) but it worked and was a gateway to further self settling

@FATEdestiny I thought he was self settling at bedtime by going in the cot awake? Or is it because he’s not doing it for naps too? I could deal with holding him for naps when he was sleeping well on a night but as it is it’s too difficult to get no rest at any time. Co sleeping doesn’t help, he wakes just as often but I suppose I haven’t tried sleeping topless so he can access a feed himself.

@TangBloodyFastic I’m glad things have become more manageable with your little one. I think I need to do the same and just start putting him down for naps and accept that they’ll be shorter. Did you do the controlled crying at nap time too or just for bedtime? And how many days did it take to work?

I do think I need to sleep train him, because this way is not working for either of us. He’s tired and grumpy a lot of the time and I’m exhausted. I’ve tried a couple of times but half heartedly and always given in. My DH isn’t on board with it aswell so it’s tough to do it without that support. I know it’s not ideal but is it possible to sleep train away from home and still have it be effective? @FATE. Just wondering if I could maybe do it when we stay over at my mums where I’ll have more support

@Pinkblueberry thanks for that. If I wuss out of sleep training then at least I can take a little consolation in the fact that he may just figure out how to sleep better on his own!

I thought he was self settling at bedtime by going in the cot awake? Or is it because he’s not doing it for naps too?

It's all the time. For all naps, all resettles, all night wakes (or most, until you night wean fully)

You will need to do sleep training at home. You will also need your DP on-board - you are both parents. While the primary caregiver (who mostly looks after baby) should be leading decisions, they need to be jointly agreed. That's just good parenting. If he can't actually face doing the sleep training, you could ask your mum for support instead. But you do need to sit down and jointly agree on a parenting approach.

@NWM12 fingers crossed! I remember the first time he did it being slightly confused and not knowing what to do with myself - day 3 I put a film on, it was amazing! Most mums I knew would spend that time doing chores and the like (all their babies were having 1 to 2 hour naps from a much earlier age) but I was convinced it wouldn’t last - I thought it was just going to be a phase and he’d revert back to cat naps any day so decided to make the most of it and spend the time doing what I want

@FATEdestiny we both have agreed in the past that it’s what needs doing, but when we’ve actually started DH tends to cave and say ‘I’ll just go pick him up, he’s not going to stop crying’ which then weakens my resolve too.

@Pinkblueberry I don’t blame you, I think I’d actually pass out from shock if DS managed a nap that long on his own! I think I need to just start putting him down for all naps and give him the opportunity to do it. Who knows, maybe he would have managed it before now and ive not given him a proper chance (she says wishfully!)

@NWM12 just read your thread and just wanted to say it will get better. I was you. Short napper, nightmare over night. I felt demented at times. Magically at 7 months, like another poster's little one, he suddenly started taking 2 hour naps. Bliss. And it helped with coping with the nights which for us didn't fix until a lot later. He still takes amazing naps now as a toddler.
Night sleep was a longer and even more difficult battle, which ended in a heavily pregnant me cracking and letting him CIO at 20 months, to finally get him sleeping through. A year later, he sleeps through until 7am. That approach may necessarily not be for you. But, I just wanted to you to know, it won't always be like this and it will get better. I was sleep deprived, obsessed with naps, awake windows and routines, and could have ripped the head off anyone who told me self settling was achievable when it seemed the most impossible thing in the world. But, we did come out of the fog.
Oh, and my second is an infinitely better sleeper.

@Scubalubs87 thank you so much for your reply, I literally feel exactly as you’ve described! I know it’s normal to be a little obsessive but I feel totally consumed by DS sleep (or lack of!). I’m praying it just clicks into place one day for us aswell as it has for others. I can deal with one of the two, bad nights and better days or vice versa but it’s the combination of both which is just killing me. As a first time mum I just feel like I’m failing at the basic fundamentals.

Thank you for the reassurance though, can’t even tell you how much it helps to know others have been through the same and that it can get better!